Who was George Brody?- Part 2.

[raindrops300]

Anybody on this forum who has a subscription for ancestry.com? Perhaps they could do some searches for ACW, his wife Elizabeth Halsey Whitfield, or the fellow that was seen to board a ship with ACW - Frank Steinman???

Hello...hello...hello...Is there anybody out there? (Pink Floyd - I'm a pink as well and can relate. hehehe)

Hi,
Some discussion of ACWhitfield can be found at post # 68, dated 8-17-2007 on the first thread with this title (now closed). That post references some previous discussion. I'm not good at posting links but I found it by doing a search of the threads in this forum. This forum dates back to at least 2005 and I'm not if the older threads are archived or where they are.
The book "Searching For Anna" is a great tool and has some answers to the information you are seeking.
I wanted to be sure and reply so you would know people are reading your input. I don't post much, but continually keep up with this thread. Following Anna's story on the net is what brought me to WS.

 

[Pink Panther]

Hi,
Some discussion of ACWhitfield can be found at post # 68, dated 8-17-2007 on the first thread with this title (now closed). That post references some previous discussion. I'm not good at posting links but I found it by doing a search of the threads in this forum. This forum dates back to at least 2005 and I'm not if the older threads are archived or where they are.
The book "Searching For Anna" is a great tool and has some answers to the information you are seeking.
I wanted to be sure and reply so you would know people are reading your input. I don't post much, but continually keep up with this thread. Following Anna's story on the net is what brought me to WS.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction raindrops! I thought that I'd read almost everything but I must have skimmed over that part. It was actually comforting to see that others had looked into the same possibility and I guess it wasn't completely ruled out.

 

[OzzieMum]

Hi All,

If this info has been looked at before, I apoligise (I don't remenber seeing it anywhere). I don't know if it's anything but I decided to post it anyway. I would rather post now and find out it's nothing than to not post and find out months down the track that it was.

I'm hoping that some of you more experienced researchers can look into it further.

This is from the New York passenger list 1820-1957

S S Cedric

Name: Chaie Brodic Brody
Arrival Date: 29 Nov 1908
Ship Name: Cedric
Search Ship Database: View the Cedric in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Line: 5
Microfilm Serial: T715
Microfilm Roll: T715_1172
Page Number: 59

I have the image (from Ancestry) but I don't know how to put it in here. Sorry, still a bit of a newbe.

I think the name Chaie could actually be Charlie/Charles.

If GB came from England, it might explain the way he spoke.

Let me know what you think.

 

[OzzieMum]

There is also another Chaie Brody on the same ship (don't think it's the same one) he is 48 years old, maybe the father of the one I posted above.

 

[smile22]

could russell also have been brody? or was that angle looked at already?

 

[raf]

Hi All,

If this info has been looked at before, I apoligise (I don't remenber seeing it anywhere). I don't know if it's anything but I decided to post it anyway. I would rather post now and find out it's nothing than to not post and find out months down the track that it was.

I'm hoping that some of you more experienced researchers can look into it further.

This is from the New York passenger list 1820-1957

S S Cedric

Name: Chaie Brodic Brody
Arrival Date: 29 Nov 1908
Ship Name: Cedric
Search Ship Database: View the Cedric in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Line: 5
Microfilm Serial: T715
Microfilm Roll: T715_1172
Page Number: 59

I have the image (from Ancestry) but I don't know how to put it in here. Sorry, still a bit of a newbe.

I think the name Chaie could actually be Charlie/Charles.

If GB came from England, it might explain the way he spoke.

Let me know what you think.

Hi Ozziemum
here the record that you found:
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i410457_chaiebrody.jpg
all the best,
raf

 

[Annasmom]

Hi Ozziemum
here the record that you found:
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i410457_chaiebrody.jpg
all the best,
raf

Apparently this ship always sailed from Liverpool to New York. Brody would have been a child at the time, but then a child is listed. Interesting!

 

[OzzieMum]

Hi Ozziemum
here the record that you found:
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i410457_chaiebrody.jpg
all the best,
raf

Hi Raf,

You're very good at this sort of research, are you able to look into this a bit further.

I find it interesting beause it has been suggested that the name Brodic was changed to Brody and the child has both names listed. The one that appears to be the father was born in Russia (probably were the name Brodic came from).

I would really appreciate it if you have the time to do further research on this.

 

[Pink Panther]

Hi Ozziemum
here the record that you found:
http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i410457_chaiebrody.jpg
all the best,
raf

This listing is of people who have been detained for some reason. Probably for further questioning before being allowed into the US? I'm not sure that the "children" listing there is indicating that this person is a child. It could mean that he has children. Note the date is November 29, 1908. I have found another listing (Manifest for the ship's arrival) for a male, 48 years old, who arrived a few days prior (November 20, 1908) on the same ship, same name (Chaie Brody).

http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/v...08.11.29.Cedric.41&sid=&gskw=Chaie+Brody&cr=1

Scroll down to the bottom. It's the second last name on this list.

I'm not sure if this link will work; if it doesn't can you please help out with this one too Raf! : )

 

[raf]

Hi Raf,

You're very good at this sort of research, are you able to look into this a bit further.

I find it interesting beause it has been suggested that the name Brodic was changed to Brody and the child has both names listed. The one that appears to be the father was born in Russia (probably were the name Brodic came from).

I would really appreciate it if you have the time to do further research on this.

Hi Ozziemum,
I found the original ship's manifest of Chaie Brodic/Brody seeming that he joining at Isidor Brodic/Brody son in Brooklyn, NY:
pag 1 http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i410780_brodicchaie1.gif
pag 2 http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i410781_brodicchaie2.gif
some suggestion?
All the best,
raf

 

[raf]

This listing is of people who have been detained for some reason. Probably for further questioning before being allowed into the US? I'm not sure that the "children" listing there is indicating that this person is a child. It could mean that he has children. Note the date is November 29, 1908. I have found another listing (Manifest for the ship's arrival) for a male, 48 years old, who arrived a few days prior (November 20, 1908) on the same ship, same name (Chaie Brody).

http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/v...08.11.29.Cedric.41&sid=&gskw=Chaie+Brody&cr=1

Scroll down to the bottom. It's the second last name on this list.

I'm not sure if this link will work; if it doesn't can you please help out with this one too Raf! : )

Hi Pink,
sorry, I posted the same ship's manifest...
However I believe that this person no adding more to our search... it are so much Brody/Brodie/Brodzic/Brodic/ etc... and we cannot say who is the right GB that we are searching for... it is so hard... also because is much probable the GB was a false name.....
raf

 

[Pink Panther]

Hi Pink,
sorry, I posted the same ship's manifest...
However I believe that this person no adding more to our search... it are so much Brody/Brodie/Brodzic/Brodic/ etc... and we cannot say who is the right GB that we are searching for... it is so hard... also because is much probable the GB was a false name.....
raf

I agree. In addition the information we have on this individual indicates that he was 48 years old in 1908; definitely too old to be this Brody.

 

[OzzieMum]

I've been wondering if GB was actually in the Marines in WW2 and that's where he meet MK. The correct MK was a nurse in the Marines wasn't she? He did say that he worked on ships at some stage, didn't he?

Maybe he went AWOL and that's when he assumed the name GB. It makes sense that if someone went AWOL they would change their identity to avoid the possibility of court martial. This would also explain why GB didn't have a SSN and was very secretive about his past and would also account for his paranoid behaviour. He may also have been a draft evader, however this would not explain how he met MK.

He also appears to have lied about his age, born 1923? which would have made him too young to be drafted in 1939. If his birth year was in fact correct, why wouldn't he have been drafted in 1941 when he turned 18 unless he had a medical condition, which he didn't appear to have. Is that correct Annasmom?

We know that GW tried to obtain conscientious objector status, probably at GB's insistence/influence, which would also fit with GB going AWOL, his belief in war maybe? He was probably also worried that GW would be killed in Vietnam and he would loose his meal ticket.

I have being trying to find lists of servicemen that went AWOL during WW2 but haven't had any luck so far. Does anyone have any idea if these records are available anywhere?

If anyone thinks my idea is a possibility, feel free to go searching.

 

[Annasmom]

I've been wondering if GB was actually in the Marines in WW2 and that's where he meet MK. The correct MK was a nurse in the Marines wasn't she? He did say that he worked on ships at some stage, didn't he?

Maybe he went AWOL and that's when he assumed the name GB. It makes sense that if someone went AWOL they would change their identity to avoid the possibility of court martial. This would also explain why GB didn't have a SSN and was very secretive about his past and would also account for his paranoid behaviour. He may also have been a draft evader, however this would not explain how he met MK.

He also appears to have lied about his age, born 1923? which would have made him too young to be drafted in 1939. If his birth year was in fact correct, why wouldn't he have been drafted in 1941 when he turned 18 unless he had a medical condition, which he didn't appear to have. Is that correct Annasmom?

We know that GW tried to obtain conscientious objector status, probably at GB's insistence/influence, which would also fit with GB going AWOL, his belief in war maybe? He was probably also worried that GW would be killed in Vietnam and he would loose his meal ticket.

I have being trying to find lists of servicemen that went AWOL during WW2 but haven't had any luck so far. Does anyone have any idea if these records are available anywhere?

If anyone thinks my idea is a possibility, feel free to go searching.

I thought Margaret was a Navy nurse. GW's efforts to attain conscientious objector status began before GB became such an influence in his life, but certainly GB advised him on this. It is possible that GB went AWOL from some branch of the service (though I believe he was too old to have been in WWII) but if he changed his name after that, I don't know where we'd begin to look. I have even wondered if he was under some kind of witness protection program, it is so unusual to have absolutely no facts available on someone.

 

[OzzieMum]

I thought Margaret was a Navy nurse. GW's efforts to attain conscientious objector status began before GB became such an influence in his life, but certainly GB advised him on this. It is possible that GB went AWOL from some branch of the service (though I believe he was too old to have been in WWII) but if he changed his name after that, I don't know where we'd begin to look. I have even wondered if he was under some kind of witness protection program, it is so unusual to have absolutely no facts available on someone.

If he was in witness protection, then they did their job extremely well back then, to be able to cover up his true identity to the point that we can find nothing to indicate who he is. Surely, now that he is dead, LE would be able to find out if he was in fact in witness protection.

I personally, am very interested in the AWOL idea. There is a MK that was a Navy nurse (found records on Footnote) and also a MK that was involved in some way with a Russell DeVor. On further reading on here, I also found that Raf has come across these records. I need to re-read the thread on GB and MK to find out if Raf ruled out this Russell DeVore as the (Russell) boyfriend of Mk that moved with her and advised her family that she had died.

The thing I do find strange is that the DeVore family seemed to be a fairly prominent family, yet there doesn't appear to be any info on them on the internet. Is GB actually Russell DeVore? If so, I'm sure a family with money could give their son a new identity and hide him if he went AWOL.

There has got to be some really big reason why GB changed his identity.

If MK served on a ship, it would be really interesting to see the crew lists.

Raf, can you clarify if/how you ruled out this Russell.

 

[raf]

Hi,
seeming, by articles, that Russel DeVor was only a friend of MK; he never moved in California, because I read a article abt a marriage of a daughter of a grandaughter( now I remember no very well) around the 1970s... also MK's relatives no recognized GB picture as Russell boyfriend of MK... so most probably Russell boyfriend of MK, well.. it is no Russell DeVor, but only another Russell.... this is my opinion.....
abt GB know just some little info.... we know that he lived in Oakland, CA for some year, and from nov 1936 ; he appearing not in 1934; at the address of 1936, well in 1934 was resident other persons... the addresses in Oakland was always of Hotels addresses... we know that the birthyear most probably is the 1907, because I found a article very interesting abt this person... but no more infos....
I believe that:
- because he was so much secretive
- because he lived always in the Hotels ( Oakland and San Francisco) and never had a home
-because he appearing with GB name in 1936 and nothing came up (by deep search) in previous years with GB name and all probable records found are abt persons with normal life
well my opinion is that:
- GB was a false name and maybe in some period time of life, previous of 1936, he had some big problem, and for that changed the name and becoming GB...
- GB was born in the States or immigrated in the USA when very young
- GB maybe was a nazi lover
- GB was a swindler saying so many lies
- GB was interested only to money
- GB planned the Anna abduction so GW having more money for GB insurance
- GB was not a gay
- GB was not a pedophile
- GB was not a killer
- GB most probably.. had a christian education when he was young; when adult he refused this christian education and becoming a esoteric amateur, self-taught; but with many gaps abt that..
- GB loved the book quotations... the music... but always as a simple amateur; he had not a real culture by schools... in all seeming to me a autodidact, and this meanings a person no happy of own condition, and with foolish ambition
- GB planned, in some way, of to have another new identity after GW death, and after insurance payment especially
- GB planned after that of to leave the States and to go in some part of world, maybe in Italy
-maybe GB met MK in Letterman hospital; that is possible
- GB had the power of to devastate the lifes of all persons that he met in the life that let us say: this man is our GB; we have only the addresses in Oakland and after in San Francisco; and we have the pictures; but always under GB name

currently we have no many clues for to search the real identity of GB; I enlarged the search abt the probable real surname starting with "Bro/Bra-Bor/Bar.. etc", but no luck; and abt Anna, well I believe, after so much search, that Anna was entrusted at some family, maybe a family knew from GB or GW.. I think not that Anna died.. it could be interesting to know the final destination of GW flights by TWA ...

all the best,
raf

 

[Annasmom]

Hi,

I believe that:
- because he was so much secretive
- because he lived always in the Hotels ( Oakland and San Francisco) and never had a home
-because he appearing with GB name in 1936 and nothing came up (by deep search) in previous years with GB name and all probable records found are abt persons with normal life
well my opinion is that:
- GB was a false name and maybe in some period time of life, previous of 1936, he had some big problem, and for that changed the name and becoming GB...
- GB was born in the States or immigrated in the USA when very young
- GB maybe was a nazi lover
- GB was a swindler saying so many lies
- GB was interested only to money
- GB planned the Anna abduction so GW having more money for GB insurance
- GB was not a gay
- GB was not a pedophile
- GB was not a killer
- GB most probably.. had a christian education when he was young; when adult he refused this christian education and becoming a esoteric amateur, self-taught; but with many gaps abt that..
- GB loved the book quotations... the music... but always as a simple amateur; he had not a real culture by schools... in all seeming to me a autodidact, and this meanings a person no happy of own condition, and with foolish ambition
- GB planned, in some way, of to have another new identity after GW death, and after insurance payment especially
- GB planned after that of to leave the States and to go in some part of world, maybe in Italy
-maybe GB met MK in Letterman hospital; that is possible
- GB had the power of to devastate the lifes of all persons that he met in the life that let us say: this man is our GB; we have only the addresses in Oakland and after in San Francisco; and we have the pictures; but always under GB name

currently we have no many clues for to search the real identity of GB; I enlarged the search abt the probable real surname starting with "Bro/Bra-Bor/Bar.. etc", but no luck; and abt Anna, well I believe, after so much search, that Anna was entrusted at some family, maybe a family knew from GB or GW.. I think not that Anna died.. it could be interesting to know the final destination of GW flights by TWA ...

all the best,
raf

Raf, you have painted an amazing portrait of George Brody. I agree with everything you wrote. The business about being a Nazi lover is disturbing, but it ties in with those letters GW wrote and also with his method of leaving this earth. What a sad, sad business.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Does anyone know how readily available potassium cyanide is? Is this something a physian would have access to or perhaps some other profession that may use the chemical?

 

[raf]

Hi Annasmom,
I believe that a man who advises to an other man, like killing with a poison used by nazis in WWII, well this man sure accepted the nazi's ideals; because there are many ways in order to commit a suicide, but why to choose just a nazi poison? GW was a doctor, and sure knew the poisons also, almost superficially, but why GB adviced for a nazi poison...? well, because he had some feeling with nazis...
it is just my opinion....
all the best,
raf

 

[one_hooah_wife]

Does anyone know how readily available potassium cyanide is? Is this something a physian would have access to or perhaps some other profession that may use the chemical?

I think that cyanide is used in electroplating so I assume that there is a legitimate market for it. But interestingly, there is another way that GW may have acquired it ... there is a drug used commonly in both the OR and ICU, called Nipride or Nitroprusside. It is a very potent vasodilator. When administering it one would know to cover the IV infusion bag with a dark opaque cover because exposure to sunlight causes a chemical reaction with the drug that releases cyanide molecules. Since there is no abuse potential for this drug, it is not controlled. It is not a stealth poison, so I have never heard of anyone using it nefariously since anyone that knew enough to understand what this drug could do would also know that it would show elevated cyanide levels on autopsy. I guess due to both of these factors it is easily obtained, if you are or if you know, the right people. Now, I graduated from nursing school in 1993 and it was considered an old standard by then. There may even be other medical uses for cyanide containing compounds. I do know that it is a terribly painful way to die as you litterally deprive your body of oxygen at the cellular level ... imagine having a heart attack, stroke and severe spasms in every muscle in your body all while you feel as if you are suffocating .... probably the reason Hitler took cyanide with a bullet back!

Yea ... I'm so happy to contribute!! I have been quiet on this board but this case is always on my mind and I run down some peice of information almost everyday.