Why did the Grand Jury not indict the Ramseys?

[Darlene733510]

I have always thought that since, the death of Patsy, if the case was re-tried JR would put all the blame on her.
I recently went back and read some of the old info. and one thing I found was that JR's secretary had intercepted calls at Access Graphics. I have no idea what the calls pertained to, but she did want to testify before the GJ, and she was refused.
AH refused to have many items tested by the lab, and kept many people from testifying. We know he was in the Ramsey camp, as was ML. If we did get another trial, we may get access to a lot that AH covered up. If those on the committee to review these cold cases
speak to S.Thomas and J. Kolar it would probably help them to make their decision. These 2 guys would have input about a lot of reasons why there never was justice for JBR. The way info was passed on to the defense team, info leaked to the media - but the biggest point they need to consider is that the GJ did vote to charge the R's, and AH overrode their verdict, all because he was too much of a coward to go up against the Ramsey legal team.

 

[Nom de plume]

I have always thought that since, the death of Patsy, if the case was re-tried JR would put all the blame on her.
I recently went back and read some of the old info. and one thing I found was that JR's secretary had intercepted calls at Access Graphics. I have no idea what the calls pertained to, but she did want to testify before the GJ, and she was refused.
AH refused to have many items tested by the lab, and kept many people from testifying. We know he was in the Ramsey camp, as was ML. If we did get another trial, we may get access to a lot that AH covered up. If those on the committee to review these cold cases
speak to S.Thomas and J. Kolar it would probably help them to make their decision. These 2 guys would have input about a lot of reasons why there never was justice for JBR. The way info was passed on to the defense team, info leaked to the media - but the biggest point they need to consider is that the GJ did vote to charge the R's, and AH overrode their verdict, all because he was too much of a coward to go up against the Ramsey legal team.

I hadn't heard about JR's secretary. Interesting. What would you think she knew? ITA that if the case went to trial we'd get a lot more info. What worries me about them talking to ST & JK is that ST thought PR did it, and JK thought BR did it. Not good for a case against JR. The only thing I disagree with you about is AH. I don't think protected the R's because he was a coward, although I think he is one. I think he was part of the RST from square one and maybe had a personal interest in seeing them get away with it. JMO

 

[Darlene733510]

I have no idea what JRs secretary knew, but it's just another indication of keeping people from speaking before the GJ. I think that the most important task the cold case committee could do is to look into what evidence was tested and why it wasn't. I would hope that ST and JK would be discreet enough to discuss why the case was so bungled up, and who interfered and damaged the investigation. They would have insight regarding many things that went wrong, that we probably don't even know about. I would bet that there were events that happened that they could not even put in their books, but they could tell this committee. LW did sue ST on behalf of the R's, but he can't sue a cold case committee if ST
was to speak to them.
Suppose they spoke to the woman who had JBR tell her she didn't feel pretty? Would this woman tell them something we know nothing about?
If they spoke to the housekeeper what would she say. I bet she has a lot of info. about what when on in this household.
I know it all sounds so futile, but we can always hope and pray for justice for JBR

 

[Nom de plume]

I have no idea what JRs secretary knew, but it's just another indication of keeping people from speaking before the GJ. I think that the most important task the cold case committee could do is to look into what evidence was tested and why it wasn't. I would hope that ST and JK would be discreet enough to discuss why the case was so bungled up, and who interfered and damaged the investigation. They would have insight regarding many things that went wrong, that we probably don't even know about. I would bet that there were events that happened that they could not even put in their books, but they could tell this committee. LW did sue ST on behalf of the R's, but he can't sue a cold case committee if ST
was to speak to them.
Suppose they spoke to the woman who had JBR tell her she didn't feel pretty? Would this woman tell them something we know nothing about?
If they spoke to the housekeeper what would she say. I bet she has a lot of info. about what when on in this household.
I know it all sounds so futile, but we can always hope and pray for justice for JBR

ITA Darlene! There's so much evidence the GJ never heard, so much evidence that was never tested, so much evidence we know nothing about, etc.

What a disaster this case has been from square one. LE not treating the house as a crime scene from the minute they arrived, who knows how much evidence was overlooked or removed from the house before a SW was issued, DA's office obstructing justice at every turn, RST working overtime to avoid, obstruct and muddy the waters, R's playing the "poor little us" card ad naseum..... This is one time the system totally failed! Miserably!

IMO prayers are the only thing that will bring justice to JB now. lease:

ETA: Forgot to say in an earlier reply that we cannot "re try" the case or have "another trial" because there never was one in the first place. The GJ endictment was the closest we've come to court.

 

[Darlene733510]

When I E-mailed Mr. Brennan, I mentioned about re-opening the case. In his reply he said that the case has never been closed. Would that mean that it could be re-presented to another GJ......and is this because AH didn't sign the paperwork when he made the statement that made people believe that the GJ actually voted not to charge PR and JR?
Who would decide what to do with this case? The Asst. DA who is in charge?
My feelings are that if BR is the guilty party, it will remain a cold case and nothing will be done. If they believe JR is guilty, let's say of aiding and abetting, then maybe something will be done. For sure, there was abuse and neglect of a child, and probably more, which led to her death. One thing I keep thinking of is could that head bash been done by a child, or was it done by a man with much more strength? What if they have the weapon that did the head bash, but it was never tested.
Could this committee look into the medical records of these family members? I would bet that they contain valuable info regarding this murder? How about if they called in the housekeeper? What could she add about this dysfunctional family?
I, and the people on this blog, have so many questions, and I would hope to have them answered.

 

[UKGuy]

When I E-mailed Mr. Brennan, I mentioned about re-opening the case. In his reply he said that the case has never been closed. Would that mean that it could be re-presented to another GJ......and is this because AH didn't sign the paperwork when he made the statement that made people believe that the GJ actually voted not to charge PR and JR?
Who would decide what to do with this case? The Asst. DA who is in charge?
My feelings are that if BR is the guilty party, it will remain a cold case and nothing will be done. If they believe JR is guilty, let's say of aiding and abetting, then maybe something will be done. For sure, there was abuse and neglect of a child, and probably more, which led to her death. One thing I keep thinking of is could that head bash been done by a child, or was it done by a man with much more strength? What if they have the weapon that did the head bash, but it was never tested.
Could this committee look into the medical records of these family members? I would bet that they contain valuable info regarding this murder? How about if they called in the housekeeper? What could she add about this dysfunctional family?
I, and the people on this blog, have so many questions, and I would hope to have them answered.

Darlene733510,
Yes one day I think they will. That the secretary was not required at the GJ tells you what you all you need to know. Patently she holds damaging testimony that does JR no favors. Maybe she can enlighten us further about the doll purchase?

Dolls play a large but ignored role in the death of JonBenet, hence the purchase via Access Graphics.

If you were not present at an event and do not have 2nd or 3rd party accounts then you can use your imagination to full effect. In intellectual gatherings this is called generating theories. So for the head bash my initial theory is that this was a first attempt at staging, a crude attempt at faking a homicide?

The head bash is the persona non grata at the JonBenet homicide its completely out of sync with with the eventual staging, even with Coroner Meyer when he peeled back JonBenet's scalp to reveal the internal bleeding!


So those that cannot comprehend JonBenet being subject to staging consider her head injury as an accident which then prompts the requirements for the wine-cellar staging?

Instead of seeing the entire scenario as a form of stepwise refinement with JR and PR refining the steps.

This is why I think JR moved JonBenet into the wine-cellar around 10:00am, i.e. he was continually revising and improving on the mistakes of others, a tactic he has employed in the media over the years.

JR tells us he moved the suitcase down into the basement, really why? Whats the big deal about the suitcase, why does it require an explanation, there is lot of stuff down in the basement, is JR rushing to offer explanations?


So I reckon JR could face further GJ scrutiny, he can be charged with conspiracy or accomplice to homicide etc. There might be little confidence that a conviction could be attained, but the public airing of the available forensic evidence can do no harm.

At the end of the day, WS members could adjudicate on the BDI , JDI debate?

 

[Darlene733510]

UKGuy
That suitcase is a part of the puzzle people can't figure out, but, for some reason I think JR was using it for some of his musings in creating a crime scene. The suitcase and the chair.
If he wanted to make people think the intruder was leaving through that window, why didn't he put something more sturdy there, like the chair. Why didn't he put the suitcase on front of the door. Seems to me he got things backwards. Was the suitcase under the window to
begin with, or did FW put it there?
The spider web proved that no intruder entered through the window, yet I think JR wanted the police and investigators to believe that they planned on taking JB out through that window. Then along comes Lou Smith who concocted his own fairy tale, and some people bought it hook line and sinker. This whole thing was such a travesty, and such a letdown for those of us who really do want justice.

 

[DeeDee249]

When I E-mailed Mr. Brennan, I mentioned about re-opening the case. In his reply he said that the case has never been closed. Would that mean that it could be re-presented to another GJ......and is this because AH didn't sign the paperwork when he made the statement that made people believe that the GJ actually voted not to charge PR and JR?
Who would decide what to do with this case? The Asst. DA who is in charge?
My feelings are that if BR is the guilty party, it will remain a cold case and nothing will be done. If they believe JR is guilty, let's say of aiding and abetting, then maybe something will be done. For sure, there was abuse and neglect of a child, and probably more, which led to her death. One thing I keep thinking of is could that head bash been done by a child, or was it done by a man with much more strength? What if they have the weapon that did the head bash, but it was never tested.
Could this committee look into the medical records of these family members? I would bet that they contain valuable info regarding this murder? How about if they called in the housekeeper? What could she add about this dysfunctional family?
I, and the people on this blog, have so many questions, and I would hope to have them answered.

The crimes that JR could be charged with IF BR was the killer would all have statutes of limitation that have run out by now. Only the charge of murder/manslaughter have no statute limits. That would include tampering with evidence (the staged crime scene) lying to police, obstruction of justice. That kind of thing.
The committee (nor anyone else) would not have access to any medical records of ANY family members without a judge issuing a warrant for them. If BR was involved, that will not happen. The DA has to ask for this warrant and unless he plans to file charges, a judge would not grant one.
The same goes for the phone records, including cellphone.
The housekeeper LHP already had plenty to say about this dysfunctional family. She was a staunch supporter of Patsy until she realized the Rs had named her as a suspect and tried to pin this on her. Thank God, there was absolutely NO evidence linking her to the crime- not a hair, fiber, print- nothing - AND she willingly gave police handwriting samples, saliva/DNA swabs too. So did her husband and I believe, her young daughter.
LHP can not be requited to talk to anyone about this case, even police. As a matter of fact, NO ONE can be compelled to talk to police or other investigators, even suspects and even if they have been arrested- Miranda Rights prohibit it. "You have the right to remain silent..etc". However- IF this case had gone to trial, THEN she (and anyone else the prosecutor wished to speak to) could have been subpoenaed to take the witness stand under oath. THEN we would have seen the coroner, school nurse, pediatrician and all the other cowards trying to lie convincingly on the witness stand.

 

[Darlene733510]

If no person can talk to the cold case committee, then why is the case still open, as Mr. Brennan told me? If they decide to look into this case then I would think they would get a subpoena for any info they would need.
Lately I have seen people who have been in prison for many years declared not guilty because of better DNA testing or other evidence that they did not commit the crime. AH did not sign the paperwork he should have when the GJ gave their verdict. How can this committee ignore the GJ verdict? That alone, would be reason to scrutinize this case.
The case has never been closed. Why not? Keeping it open, to me, means they can have another look. Am I wrong about this?

 

[Nom de plume]

If no person can talk to the cold case committee, then why is the case still open, as Mr. Brennan told me? If they decide to look into this case then I would think they would get a subpoena for any info they would need.
Lately I have seen people who have been in prison for many years declared not guilty because of better DNA testing or other evidence that they did not commit the crime. AH did not sign the paperwork he should have when the GJ gave their verdict. How can this committee ignore the GJ verdict? That alone, would be reason to scrutinize this case.
The case has never been closed. Why not? Keeping it open, to me, means they can have another look. Am I wrong about this?

The only reason to close a case is if it is solved. Otherwise it may be open indefinitely, even if it's cold.

I have to agree with DeeDee about them not having access to the medical records, etc. I'm sure they were destroyed long ago anyway. IIRC didn't Dr. Beuf threaten to destroy them?

Where did you see or hear that no person can speak to the committee? Just because someone can't be compelled to talk to police it doesn't mean they can't voluntarily say what they know. If someone is willing to come in and talk there's no law against that. I'm sure they'll have all the transcripts from the GJ testimony to review. And just because AH didn't sign the indictment, it doesn't mean that it didn't/doesn't exist. I see no reason why they would ignore it. There's a lot of other evidence that they can review, and hopefully have some tested that wasn't tested before.

 

[UKGuy]

If no person can talk to the cold case committee, then why is the case still open, as Mr. Brennan told me? If they decide to look into this case then I would think they would get a subpoena for any info they would need.
Lately I have seen people who have been in prison for many years declared not guilty because of better DNA testing or other evidence that they did not commit the crime. AH did not sign the paperwork he should have when the GJ gave their verdict. How can this committee ignore the GJ verdict? That alone, would be reason to scrutinize this case.
The case has never been closed. Why not? Keeping it open, to me, means they can have another look. Am I wrong about this?

Darlene733510,
Its open so that no sealed evidence can be made public. There is obviously something particularly damaging lying in an evidence cage somewhere.


.

 

[Darlene733510]

Nom de plume
I understood from DeeDee"s reply to me that no person can be compelled to talk to the cold case committee. Then there is the Statute of Limitions, and I do understand, so when the recent article appeared in The Daily Mirror about the GJ voting to charge the R's, was it just blowing in the wind, because nothing will ever be done? Just this week there was another article naming the man in charge and others who are gathering to look into the cold cases. James Kolar had all access to everything but the files from the GJ.
At times I know how futile it is to hope for a resolution, but darn it, I am no spring chicken, and I would hope that the number 1 item on my bucket list would granted, and we would
finally know what happened.

 

[UKGuy]

Nom de plume
I understood from DeeDee"s reply to me that no person can be compelled to talk to the cold case committee. Then there is the Statute of Limitions, and I do understand, so when the recent article appeared in The Daily Mirror about the GJ voting to charge the R's, was it just blowing in the wind, because nothing will ever be done? Just this week there was another article naming the man in charge and others who are gathering to look into the cold cases. James Kolar had all access to everything but the files from the GJ.
At times I know how futile it is to hope for a resolution, but darn it, I am no spring chicken, and I would hope that the number 1 item on my bucket list would granted, and we would
finally know what happened.

Darlene733510,
LOL, well if you outlive JR I think your wish will be granted. Unless his influence extends to within BPD.

.

 

[DeeDee249]

No one can be COMPELLED to talk to police or investigators unless they are subpoenaed or called before a Grand Jury. Even then, they may invoke their
5th Amendment rights to "refuse to answer on the grounds that it may incriminate' them. They can "take the Fifth" and keep silent.
However, anyone can OFFER to speak to investigators at ANY time. It is completely voluntary.
An UN-solved murder case can never be closed. It can be considered "cold" but will never be closed.

 

[BOESP]

Thought some of you might be interested in this murder case and it's Grand Jury call in a town near where I live: http://www.wbko.com/home/headlines/The-Role-Of-A-Grand-Jury-200340351.html

The gist of the article as it relates to my opinion of the JonBenet Grand Jury is the judge made this comment: "My experience is they [the grand jury] get it right. They get it right. I'm glad we still have that system of a grand jury." -Warren Circuit Judge Steve Wilson

 

[BBB167893]

It upset me when John Ramsey says this is just "more drama." (It upsets me SLIGHTLY--I don't want JR to get the idea that what he says has that much effect on my life.) What he's hoping people don't realize is that the vast majority of suspects who make it to the indictment stage (around 97%, I understand) are guilty.

 

[UKGuy]

It upset me when John Ramsey says this is just "more drama." (It upsets me SLIGHTLY--I don't want JR to get the idea that what he says has that much effect on my life.) What he's hoping people don't realize is that the vast majority of suspects who make it to the indictment stage (around 97%, I understand) are guilty.

SuperDave,
Absolutely. JR is playing the drama queen, distraught that her subjects consider her an object of suspicion, perish the thought!

Is it wise of JR to consider that his immense wealth can fix everything?


.

 

[midwest mama]

Been creeping my way through DOI because I have to stop to mark the things JR journalizes that only make me believe more than ever that his inflated ego was, and probably still is, sickeningly distorted.

We shouldn't have been surprised by his "more drama" kaboom on the indictment news, given that while writing DOI, he thought it important enough to include the information that once he obtained a good position within his successful business ventures, he 'often thought' he should go back to the manager who fired him from AT&T in his early career for not having the skills they would expect from him in the future, and ask him to compare resumes.

Just goes to show that JR doesn't like to lose, and spent plenty of time thinking about vindication.

 

[BBB167893]

SuperDave,
Absolutely. JR is playing the drama queen, distraught that her subjects consider her an object of suspicion, perish the thought!

He had a good teacher.

Is it wise of JR to consider that his immense wealth can fix everything?

No, it is not. God cannot be bribed.

 

[Roy23]

Well, Roy--and I KNOW you're out there--what have you got to say about it now?

Hey Dave!

I don't have much to say about this. I guess the case did meet the Ham test at least. This case doesn't mean as much to me anymore until they start releasing more information. I guess I would have to say that Alex was kind of forced into those GJ proceedings. Even still, the Scheck's and Henry Lee's advised him not to indict at that current time.

It's all a big mess for sure. I still lean IDI but am not going to fight the fight anymore. My devotions and energy is better focused elsewhere. If justice is ever served, I will be happy for sure. Hope you are doing better!

Roy