Why did the Grand Jury not indict the Ramseys?

[BBB167893]

Hey Dave!

Don't "Hey, Dave!" me. You said you wanted me to rub it in, and that's exactly what I'm doing.

I don't have much to say about this.

I didn't think you would. Not that you NEED to, because it pretty much says it all.

I guess the case did meet the Ham test at least.

You want that ham sandwich to go with your words?

This case doesn't mean as much to me anymore until they start releasing more information.

Don't you mean BECAUSE they've released more information? Between this and Jim Kolar's new book, RDI has landed some serious body blows.

I guess I would have to say that Alex was kind of forced into those GJ proceedings.

I've been telling you that for years.

Even still, the Scheck's and Henry Lee's advised him not to indict at that current time.

Roy, they advised him not to indict because they could see he wasn't UP TO IT. They could see that an inert bureaucrat who hadn't taken a case to trial in ten years didn't have what it took to match the power and sheer underhandedness of Hal Haddon in court. Alex was more interested in maintaining his win/loss record and his upcoming retirement than he was in at least TRYING to get some damn justice for a murdered child.

And to that end, Alex Hunter is symbolic of the entire problem with our political system: God forbid that an elected official who's getting rich on our money should have to do any WORK!:furious:

 

[midwest mama]

Hey Dave!

Snipped.......

Alex was more interested in maintaining his win/loss record and his upcoming retirement than he was in at least TRYING to get some damn justice for a murdered child.

And to that end, Alex Hunter is symbolic of the entire problem with our political system: God forbid that an elected official who's getting rich on our money should have to do any WORK!:furious:

So, is that why Garnett appears to be doin' the same dance? He had me thinking he might be the one who's willing to go the extra mile to do what has to be done to get the last remaining chargeable Ramsey to face the real music!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Actually, Garnett has brought a lot of cold cases to trial, so he is not reluctant to put in the work or to work on old cases. If the only thing he thinks he can charge John with has exceeded the statute of limitations, or if he thinks he cannot get a conviction for something John can still be charged with (felony murder) he is not going to put the case on trial.

Maybe the best thing to hope for is a new GJ....

 

[midwest mama]

Actually, Garnett has brought a lot of cold cases to trial, so he is not reluctant to put in the work or to work on old cases. If the only thing he thinks he can charge John with has exceeded the statute of limitations, or if he thinks he cannot get a conviction for something John can still be charged with (felony murder) he is not going to put the case on trial.

Maybe the best thing to hope for is a new GJ....

In this case (no pun intended), you probably have the best solution: first things first! I'll go along with gathering a new GJ, but rather than just HOPE for one, I ask all of you who believe in the power of prayer to your God, to make those divine petitions! raying:raying:and raying:some more!!

 

[DeeDee249]

Hey Dave!

So, is that why Garnett appears to be doin' the same dance? He had me thinking he might be the one who's willing to go the extra mile to do what has to be done to get the last remaining chargeable Ramsey to face the real music!

He does the same dance because they are still singing the same tune. He is as powerless as his predecessors against the R's and their lawyers' political connections.

 

[Darlene733510]

Yesterday I did a lot of reading. One thing I found was about the Cold Case Committee.
This article was in 2010, and it discussed the procedure. This is a 26 member team. The detective on the team is Steve Ainsworth, and guess what? He was hired by the R's to be their investigator. The CBI director(Ron ? can't read my notes) said that the originating agency will review and present evidence and analysis to the team, who will recommend follow up steps that may crack the case. So, I would say is if this Steve Ainsworth has anything to do with recommending this case for review, it will never happen. I don't know if he is still there or not, but he must have went to work for BPD sometime after the R's were finished with him. He was referred to as a Boulder County Sheriffs Detective.
Federal grants help fund these cases, and there are 1400 cases there. An application has to be filled out for the case reviews. They do follow up interviews or collect and test different types of evidence, to try and crack the case.

 

[Nom de plume]

Yesterday I did a lot of reading. One thing I found was about the Cold Case Committee.
This article was in 2010, and it discussed the procedure. This is a 26 member team. The detective on the team is Steve Ainsworth, and guess what? He was hired by the R's to be their investigator. The CBI director(Ron ? can't read my notes) said that the originating agency will review and present evidence and analysis to the team, who will recommend follow up steps that may crack the case. So, I would say is if this Steve Ainsworth has anything to do with recommending this case for review, it will never happen. I don't know if he is still there or not, but he must have went to work for BPD sometime after the R's were finished with him. He was referred to as a Boulder County Sheriffs Detective.
Federal grants help fund these cases, and there are 1400 cases there. An application has to be filled out for the case reviews. They do follow up interviews or collect and test different types of evidence, to try and crack the case.

I found several articles saying the task force was formed in 2009, so likely whoever was on it then, is on it now.

One thing I'm confused about though. When did the R's hire him? This article, which is a complaint about him from Beckner, says he was loaned to the DA's office in 1997 to review the case from a "defense perspective". Apparently, he was still working for the SD in 2001.

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/2001/15llett1.html

 

[Darlene733510]

Hi Ndp - I was reading the questioning of JR on 4/97. That is when JR said they hired SA. Maybe he was loaned to them by the BPD, which seems rather unusual. I also read all the questioning of JR on 6/24/98.
When JR was looking at pictures of JB's room he did comment on the pillow, because it was at the foot of her bed, and he thought that was unusual. Then LS asked him about a multicolored item on JB's bed, and JR said it looked like a sweater of Patsy's.
MK asked JR about the dumbbells in JB's room, and JR said that PR had some and maybe BR had some too.
JR made one statement I thought was odd. On 6/25/98 he said to MK, "We have said to ourselves there is never going to be a victory, in this there is no victory, but if we could find out who did this there could be some closure". Notice that work victory!

 

[Nom de plume]

Hi Ndp - I was reading the questioning of JR on 4/97. That is when JR said they hired SA. Maybe he was loaned to them by the BPD, which seems rather unusual. I also read all the questioning of JR on 6/24/98.
When JR was looking at pictures of JB's room he did comment on the pillow, because it was at the foot of her bed, and he thought that was unusual. Then LS asked him about a multicolored item on JB's bed, and JR said it looked like a sweater of Patsy's.
MK asked JR about the dumbbells in JB's room, and JR said that PR had some and maybe BR had some too.
JR made one statement I thought was odd. On 6/25/98 he said to MK, "We have said to ourselves there is never going to be a victory, in this there is no victory, but if we could find out who did this there could be some closure". Notice that work victory!

I just went back over JR's 4/97 interview. I can't find SA mentioned anywhere. SA never worked for BPD as the article I posted above states. He works/worked for the Sherrifs Dept. They loaned him to the DA's office. Ellis Armistead was the R's PI, not Steve Ainsworth.

Ainsworth was very pro Ramsey back then. He made numerous public comments, when he was directly ordered not to, about the R's obvious innocence and lack of any evidence pointing to them. He bad mouthed BPD, which prompted Beckners letter to the Sherrifs Dept. No doubt, he's probably still IDI and if he's on the task force he'll try to keep the case from being looked at again.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Ryan Brackley, a Boulder assistant DA, is also part of the Cold Case team. When Garnett commented on the development that the R's had been indicted he said, "With Ryan Brackley, I have one of the best cold case prosecutors in the US on my staff". Brackley prosecuted the Savannah Chase case too. So if the R case did go to trial, it looks like Brackley would be the prosecutor for it. Interesting that he's on the cold case team too.

 

[Darlene733510]

Ndp 1 - I am so glad you caught that. You are right, but if Ainsworth may be one of those presenting cold cases to the team, that is not good.
We just need to hope and pray that it will happen. Now I don't have much hope in the DA
either. Trouble is that in Boulder politics seems to take precedence over justice.

 

[Nom de plume]

Ndp 1 - I am so glad you caught that. You are right, but if Ainsworth may be one of those presenting cold cases to the team, that is not good.
We just need to hope and pray that it will happen. Now I don't have much hope in the DA
either. Trouble is that in Boulder politics seems to take precedence over justice.

BBM

And Boulder is different than any other US city how? It's that way everywhere.

I'll be surprised if anything more comes of this. It pacifies people to say they're looking into it again. Most people, other than us WSers, will think it's great that they are still trying to solve it and then forget all about it. We're a different breed here though. We won't forget, or stop seeking justice for JB. :websleuther:

 

[Darlene733510]

Ndp - I agree that Boulder is no different than anywhere else, and that includes our U.S Government and those we elected to office. I had better not get starred on that subject or I wil be here for a week.
We will never give up on our search for justice. As I went back and read on ACR for the last two days the lies made me sick. As I read the comments from LW or the other R attorneys I was so angered that I had to stop for a while and find something else to do.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

With the R's money and connections, I am convinced that the same politics would have played out wherever they had lived. And it wasn't simply that the R's used their connections to influence Boulder; This whole thing went right up to the state of Colorado. The phone records, John's friendship with the lieutenant governor, the extremely powerful lawyers, etc. Even today, we have someone who worked for the R's on the Colorado Board of Investigators Cold Case team. Unfortunately, I think this same politics would have played out in any state.

It's interesting though, when you think about how the R's had only been living in Boulder for 5 years, were considered outsiders, very different from the image that Boulder projected, etc...yet got away with it. Normally when you think of someone getting away with a crime in a town, it's someone who is extremely accepted in the community, family has been there for generations, etc. It shows that money is more powerful than anything.

 

[midwest mama]

IIRC, JR had a net worth of just over $6 million when JB was killed. In December 1997, he said he was having trouble raising funds, and decided he would have to sell his King Air plane. (Which he sold to Archuletta). He needed the cash to pay their mounting debts. And he also began to work on the sale of the summer house is Charlevoix.

Guess that money had a lot of "talking" to do in that first year!

 

[Nom de plume]

IIRC, JR had a net worth of just over $6 million when JB was killed. In December 1997, he said he was having trouble raising funds, and decided he would have to sell his King Air plane. (Which he sold to Archuletta). He needed the cash to pay their mounting debts. And he also began to work on the sale of the summer house is Charlevoix.

Guess that money had a lot of "talking" to do in that first year!

Yeah, if you buy the story that he was broke. I think he's full of it. They might have spent 1 or 2M, but I don't believe he blew every cent they had. Funny, he still has a private plane that he flies all over the country, and to Hawaii. He still has his sail boat, still has a house in Charlevoix, and had money to run for office twice. Yeah.....really destitute.....poor JR. I'm surprised he's not living in a cardboard box under a bridge somewhere.

 

[Roy23]

Hey Dave!

Don't "Hey, Dave!" me. You said you wanted me to rub it in, and that's exactly what I'm doing.



I didn't think you would. Not that you NEED to, because it pretty much says it all.



You want that ham sandwich to go with your words?



Don't you mean BECAUSE they've released more information? Between this and Jim Kolar's new book, RDI has landed some serious body blows.



I've been telling you that for years.



Roy, they advised him not to indict because they could see he wasn't UP TO IT. They could see that an inert bureaucrat who hadn't taken a case to trial in ten years didn't have what it took to match the power and sheer underhandedness of Hal Haddon in court. Alex was more interested in maintaining his win/loss record and his upcoming retirement than he was in at least TRYING to get some damn justice for a murdered child.

And to that end, Alex Hunter is symbolic of the entire problem with our political system: God forbid that an elected official who's getting rich on our money should have to do any WORK!:furious:

LOL Dave. I did tell you to rub it in if a Ramsey were proved guilty. If I said for this too, I have no problem with it as well. I didn't get anything too much from Kolar's book besides what I have said all along. And that is if a Ramsey's were guilty the only thing that makes sense to me is if Burke was involved somehow. The DNA is certainly still a factor in the case.

Also, I have read over and over again on how you feel about Alex Hunter and Mary Lacey. I am not even going to argue for or against it. Here is the thing ---Mary's gone, Alex is gone, and still ain't nobody doing nothing as far as I can tell. They have talked about it and even the new players involved have chosen to do nothing. Law enforcement writing books for profit without taking any action discredits the case more and more over time. But that is just me.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The R's did an interview in March 2000 with the Rocky Mountain News and this is an excerpt:

"They have scaled back their lifestyle, partly from necessity. John has learned that his name can be a liability in business. Gone are the Michigan vacation home, the airplane, the boat.

Their cars, a Honda and an Audi, are leased . They have been paying massive legal bills - more than $1 million - by depleting savings, tapping retirement plans and selling assets"

-Don't they still own the Michigan vacation home in 2013?
-I know they still have at least one airplane. I actually feel safe to say they still have two planes.
-Don't they still have the boat too? I think I saw something on FFJ about it; I don't think it was sold pre-2000 though.
-"More than 1 million" is pretty vague.
-If you were really broke, why do they have an Audi--leased or not?
-March 2000 is when their book came out. Trust me; They pocketed A LOT of money from media appearances to promote that book since those interviews were the first time they had a sit-down interview with the US media. WTF @ doing an interview to tell everyone how "poor" you are now when checks for $$$ were being written to them from every major media outlet. If they did spend $1 million on legal fees in the prior three years, well they made it all back that month!

 

[Darlene733510]

JR is being the drama queen again. How many offshore accounts does he have? I would like to see his tax forms for the past few years. Just in case he reads here, I have a message for him: Sympathy is found in the dictionary between s--t and syphillus!
Remember when he was dating Beth Halloway? What on earth did she see in that despicable piece of humanity?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Here's another gem from the interview:

"Pieces of JonBenet 's life lie scattered around this room in the apartment the Ramseys are renting"

"The Denver Rocky Mountain News interviewed John and Patsy Ramsey for four hours last week in their Atlanta apartment"

Okay...the reason why they were renting an apartment is because their huge house was being renovated, right? I love how that is not even mentioned in the article, like the reader is supposed to think that all they can afford now is an apartment in Atlanta.

They are so broke yet they are having renovations done that are so extensive that they can't even live in their home at the time. I also found an article from October 1999 that mentioned the renovations, so the house was still being worked on five months later... Wow....Or it's possible the renovations were done at that point, and they just rented an apartment to do the interview in, as it would look a bit awkward to tell the reporter how poor they are now in their Atlanta home.