Why didn't Cindy file for custody of Caylee? Could Cindy have saved her?

[elfie]

She was barely treading water after liquidating her 401K at not a very young age to keep a roof over everyone, including Caylee's, head. Taking on legal fees and court cost for a prolonged court battle probably was not a financial option for her. That is what I am sure she was referring to. Not that she couldn't afford to care for her, she was already doing that.

Seriously, cashing in the 401k early is the least appealing option by all accounts, huge penalties (nearly equal to half) and taxes on top of that. I think the attorny fees would have been out of the question.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

To give the appearance of trying to get the car. How do you get someone to pick you, take you to buy a gas can, and then not get a gallon or two of gas and go get your car?

There is no history of her finally making to the lot to find her car gone, which should have happened if she wanted it back.

I'm typing this from memory Dot, but I believe the day she and Amy go buy the gas cans she has TonE's car...that's how she gets to Amy's...the problem isn't that she doesn't have a way to get to her car, she just doesn't have any money! So my guess is after she leaves Amy, she drives TonE's car to Amscot and sees that her car is gone?

 

[Priester]

I agreed with you UNTIL, you say that Cindy knew.when she made the call?
She did not IMO.

Cindy said, "the car smells like a damn dead body"
and....
Cindy asked Casey, "WHAT DID YOU DO!?!"
That's what made me think Cindy knew things would not turn out well.

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

Seriously, cashing in the 401k early is the least appealing option by all accounts, huge penalties (nearly equal to half) and taxes on top of that. I think the attorny fees would have been out of the question.

ITA - Getting custody of a child from a living parent is very, very difficult. And had she turned Casey in for the thefts, how could she be assured that she would get custody of Caylee ? Wouldn't Caylee have been put in foster care for at least some period of time ? IMO, things had deteriorated to the point where Cindy was truly caught between a rock and a hard place. And Casey knew it.

 

[tx_Dot]

To give the appearance of trying to get the car. How do you get someone to pick you, take you to buy a gas can, and then not get a gallon or two of gas and go get your car?

There is no history of her finally making to the lot to find her car gone, which should have happened if she wanted it back.

KC had already told Tony, her Dad was going to take care of it, @ that time Tony was the only one that knew where the car was.

Why call Jesse 6-28 , he told her he was too far away & busy.

Amy was busy 6-29, then as soon as KC dropped Tony @ the airport she went on to Amy's, & then to buy a gas can...

LE never did ask Amy if they made it to Amscot, or what happened to the new gas can..........& I think they should of

 

[elfie]

ITA - Getting custody of a child from a living parent is very, very difficult. And had she turned Casey in for the thefts, how could she be assured that she would get custody of Caylee ? Wouldn't Caylee have been put in foster care for at least some period of time ? IMO, things had deteriorated to the point where Cindy was truly caught between a rock and a hard place. And Casey knew it.

So true, and you make good points. Even if she had had the funds to pursue that course of action what would the likelihood of success have been and how long would it have taken? I can't imagine that she would have been happy about the thought of foster care for Caylee at that time.

 

[tx_Dot]

I told my story about my selfish daughter on the posts before. I won't go there again.
I kick her out and kept my grandosn and dare her to call the cops.
She knew I was right. She never did.
It to late now but if Cindy just kick out Casey and kept Caylee. I would bet 100 millinos dollars that Casey would not did one thing about it. after all she just wanting to do was party. and she would had her way. I agree with most of the post it is hard to fight custody for grandkids. I just call my daughter bluff. and now my grandson is with his father because he was more a parent. I don't know what I would do if she call cops but she didn't, but if she did I guess grandson's father and I would fought the courts and I am sure my ex son in law and I would won. I know in this little country town I live in there is 5 fathers that has custody of their childern.

my bold....

Thats what a lot don't understand....you have to be ready to break ties with your adult child that is an unfit parent, and then go for the custody of the grandchild with the proof the parent is unfit.......it needs to be strong proof...& you need a good lawyer.

You can't simply wake up one day, call a lawyer, & get it done.

I bet Cindy couldn't even get a 'welfare check' done by LE, as she had no address to send them to. It is not LE's job to investigate 'unfit' parents, they would probably just tell you to call Children's Services & get the investigation started..

It's a very hard decision to give up on your 'child' for the sake of your grandchild......

I'm happy things worked out for you & your grandchild.

 

[DawnTCB]

I've been thinking about this today...

I had a co-worker at my last job who wanted to take her 10 year old grandson from her daughter. My co-worker had money, the daughter did not.

However, my co-worker's "evidence" of her being an unfit mother was not really abusive, IMO. My co-worker was upset that her daughter did not do things like take the grandson to the dentist, or allow him to participate in activities outside of school. The daughter was probably somewhat depressed, and slept a lot, and her house was apparently pretty messy. Not filthy, but things like stacks of unopened mail, 15 empty milk jugs waiting to go to recycling, etc.

My coworker's attorney said the judge would ask things like "was their evidence of abuse?" and she would need to have something more than stacks of mail to prove abuse. She pressed on, however, with nothing more incriminating than the grandson was not allowed to join the running/track group after school because his mom would have to go get him during one of her "programs". In the end, she paid over $10,000, and the grandson was in foster care for three months (apparently difficult for him, as it would be for any child) while they investigated. The daughter cleaned her house, although they did not say she had to. And in the end the judge let the daughter have the grandson back, and the daughter won't speak to the mom at all. It's been over a year.

I think it is tempting in hindsight to say, well yeah, she should have gotten custody and none of this would have happened. But I don't think she had the money OR the evidence of abuse needed to make it a reality. I know you guys have said this already, I am just adding my friend's story for another true life example.

 

[DazzlinDebSD]

In the 911 call, we hear Cindy threaten KC that she will file for custody of Caylee...we know she talked to a therapist who instructed her to do this...My question is, why didn't she??? I mean, after all this happened, after July 15, where we now know Caylee is missing... Especially once FCS got involved and KC was in jail...if she truly did believe Caylee was alive, why didn't she file for custody??

Cindy KNEW Caylee was in heaven....that's why!

 

[LinasK]

I've been thinking about this today...

I had a co-worker at my last job who wanted to take her 10 year old grandson from her daughter. My co-worker had money, the daughter did not.

However, my co-worker's "evidence" of her being an unfit mother was not really abusive, IMO. My co-worker was upset that her daughter did not do things like take the grandson to the dentist, or allow him to participate in activities outside of school. The daughter was probably somewhat depressed, and slept a lot, and her house was apparently pretty messy. Not filthy, but things like stacks of unopened mail, 15 empty milk jugs waiting to go to recycling, etc.

My coworker's attorney said the judge would ask things like "was their evidence of abuse?" and she would need to have something more than stacks of mail to prove abuse. She pressed on, however, with nothing more incriminating than the grandson was not allowed to join the running/track group after school because his mom would have to go get him during one of her "programs". In the end, she paid over $10,000, and the grandson was in foster care for three months (apparently difficult for him, as it would be for any child) while they investigated. The daughter cleaned her house, although they did not say she had to. And in the end the judge let the daughter have the grandson back, and the daughter won't speak to the mom at all. It's been over a year.

I think it is tempting in hindsight to say, well yeah, she should have gotten custody and none of this would have happened. But I don't think she had the money OR the evidence of abuse needed to make it a reality. I know you guys have said this already, I am just adding my friend's story for another true life example.

Psssst... tell your friend she should have pressed it on the dentist issue. In California, the schools require proof of a dentist visit, dentist information.

 

[TxMother67]

What's with Cindy telling the co-worker she "couldn't afford" custody of Caylee? Wasn't she already paying for everything anyway since KC wasn't working? Or do you think she was referring to the legal fees that would have been involved? It doesn't make sense. Didn't she have to liquidate her 401K to pay off credit card debt KC racked up on top of pretty much supporting the whole family? But she "couldn't afford" custody of Caylee?

At moments, during this nightmare, I have held deep compassion for George and Cindy. I am a mother of teenagers and I know how difficult it can be ( and they are not sociopaths!) The pain of losing a sweet, defenseless 2 1/2-year old grandchild would be unfathamable. BUT, I honestly don't think, as much as they loved Caylee, they made her made her their priority. It has always been about Casey. Even now. They don't know how to fix this either. The train left the rails a very long time ago on this one! I think they worked overtime, on a daily basis, just to wrap the mess up at home into a pretty package for friends and family. I dont think any of us can imagine the arguements that may have occured. We've seen George and Cindy weilding hammers, Lee crushing signs and Casey was about to burst a vein in the last video released.

Cindy would rather placate and feed into Casey's needs than face the reality of her sociopathic daughter raising her only grandchild. She denied Casey's pregnancy for months! I don't think she would have gone through the motions of fighting for custody of Caylee any more than she has helped LE in searching for Caylee or left the office after she found the decomposing smell in the car. The buck stops at the door and behind the door is Casey. They, the Anthonys can't stand it that they can't fix her--Casey----and they will not stop trying. JMOO

 

[DawnTCB]

Psssst... tell your friend she should have pressed it on the dentist issue. In California, the schools require proof of a dentist visit, dentist information.

LOL! That's very interesting.

Here (and believe me, I heard *all about it* ) if you take the child to the pediatrician (for example, for their school- required shots) the pediatrician takes a peek in their mouth, asks if you use toothpaste with flouride, and that's "enough".

You'd think at least one visit to an actual dentist would be required but it's just not here.

 

[LCoastMom]

Just read the docs with that.

If she was supporting them all, she might as well have custody. KC had no income.

A parent can lose custody of their child for many reasons, having no money, is usually not one of them.

Cindy was supporting her whole household:

For the last several years Geo was unemployed or under employed due to an injury to his knee and reportedly has had some troubles with either gambling or a very expensive online scam.

But they didn't have the $10G minimum that it would have cost them to hire an atty to file for custody and KC knew it, because she caused it. KC has spent her parents into $45,000 worth of debt.

 

[azwriter]

Thoughout all of this case I have never been able to rid myself of the idea that had Cindy and George been more serious about taking legal custody of little Caylee, she would still be with us.
We've heard that Cindy claimed they could not seek custody because they could not afford the legal bills. I think that is a poor excuse and not the real reason.
I believe the real reason is because George and especially Cindy had a bigger motivation than a safe and healthy upbringing for their granddaughter. Cindy was hell bent on forcing Casey to become a proper mother to Caylee. She had a vendetta toward her daughter to do the right thing and live up to the responsibility of being a full-time parent to a baby that was not planned.
I believe both grandparents loved their grandchild, but that love was blinded by Cindy's determination to make her daughter obey and be the person she wanted her to be.
Over the past year we have been witness to Cindy's stubborness and strong will to have things her way. That behavior, I believe overshadowed what was good for Caylee with her strong desire to have Casey bend to Cindy's will.
I may be wrong. You all may have other reasons why Cindy and George never made any attempt to gain custody. Certainly if they had, we wouldn't be posting here today.
jmo

 

[Mare10]

I think that CA and GA live in another dimension. I believe that CA thought (still thinks) that she would make very thing OK (she said so herself). I think that she enjoyed being a martyr and having something to hold over KC and not to mention what people would think of her family if she followed through and did it. This would ruin her precious perfect family act. She couldn't let that happen as I feel she believes that would be a reflection of her failure. Her brother said at one point that she would always share (brag) about only the good things, they never heard the bad stuff.

I looked up the correct spelling for martyr and it appears that CA got her wish.

Today, the term is most commonly used to describe an individual who sacrifices his or her life in order to further a cause or belief for others.

The term martyr (Greek μάρτυς martys "witness") originally signified a witness in the forensic sense, a person called to testify in legal proceedings.

 

[CentralFLMama]

I have to imagine that even though she clearly adored Caylee and obviously thought Casey was unfit in some way, she is 50 years old. She probably didnt WANT to have full-time responsibility for Caylee, and probably also hoped that Casey would grow up one of those days. Although my mom is quite a bit older than Cindy, and although she adores her grandchildren, there is no way she would be able to be the sole caretaker of them. It just gets to be exhausting at a certain age. I am sure Cindy would have done it if she had to (if Casey died for example) but probably hoping that Casey would get herself together she just never got to that point. I agree that the money for legal costs is not the real reason. I believe part of her guilt stems from the fact that not only did she not seek custody, but that she really didnt want custody.

 

[MidAtlanticNative]

Thoughout all of this case I have never been able to rid myself of the idea that had Cindy and George been more serious about taking legal custody of little Caylee, she would still be with us.
We've heard that Cindy claimed they could not seek custody because they could not afford the legal bills. I think that is a poor excuse and not the real reason.
I believe the real reason is because George and especially Cindy had a bigger motivation than a safe and healthy upbringing for their granddaughter. Cindy was hell bent on forcing Casey to become a proper mother to Caylee. She had a vendetta toward her daughter to do the right thing and live up to the responsibility of being a full-time parent to a baby that was not planned.
I believe both grandparents loved their grandchild, but that love was blinded by Cindy's determination to make her daughter obey and be the person she wanted her to be.
Over the past year we have been witness to Cindy's stubborness and strong will to have things her way. That behavior, I believe overshadowed what was good for Caylee with her strong desire to have Casey bend to Cindy's will.
I may be wrong. You all may have other reasons why Cindy and George never made any attempt to gain custody. Certainly if they had, we wouldn't be posting here today.
jmo

(bold mine)

You know, I can't say for sure why George and Cindy didn't pursue custody of Caylee, but I offer the following for consideration:

1. Custody battles are expensive and almost always protracted. Period. From what I gather, George and Cindy were cash poor, and a top family law attorney will generally require a substantial retainer, followed by an hourly rate that could easily bankrupt a family far wealthier than the Anthonys.

2. Even if George and Cindy disagreed with the way Casey was raising Caylee, that in and of itself is no reason to feel they would be granted custody if it came to that. I'd venture to say that many sets of grandparents take issue with some aspect if their grandkid's upbringing.

3. Despite my feelings of disgust and revulsion for Casey, we have to face the fact that there was never any sign that Caylee was being abused or neglected by Casey. Even when outside George and Cindy's circle of observation. All accounts support a happy, healthy and well-developed Caylee. I understand that Caylee had issues sleeping alone, and (possibly) had started to throw tantrums, but these issues are not atypical for children of her age.

4. If George and Cindy ever got down to brass tacks in a custody battle, some of their behavior would certainly be flagged as suspect. I can't see George and Cindy willingly subjecting themselves and their extended family to the mandated inquiries, interviews and evaluations.

Those points made, I will say that I wish Casey had allowed Caylee to be adopted at birth (it was her decision, after all) or done what many young women do and pawned Caylee off completely to the grandparents (Cindy and George). Casey's me-me-me personality, Cindy's need for control, George's 'head in the sand' approach to conflict, and the off kilter dynamic bred by adult children (with children!) living at home created a powder keg. And Caylee paid the price. It's beyond sad...

 

[aafromaa]

Thoughout all of this case I have never been able to rid myself of the idea that had Cindy and George been more serious about taking legal custody of little Caylee, she would still be with us.
We've heard that Cindy claimed they could not seek custody because they could not afford the legal bills. I think that is a poor excuse and not the real reason.
I believe the real reason is because George and especially Cindy had a bigger motivation than a safe and healthy upbringing for their granddaughter. Cindy was hell bent on forcing Casey to become a proper mother to Caylee. She had a vendetta toward her daughter to do the right thing and live up to the responsibility of being a full-time parent to a baby that was not planned.
I believe both grandparents loved their grandchild, but that love was blinded by Cindy's determination to make her daughter obey and be the person she wanted her to be.
Over the past year we have been witness to Cindy's stubborness and strong will to have things her way. That behavior, I believe overshadowed what was good for Caylee with her strong desire to have Casey bend to Cindy's will.
I may be wrong. You all may have other reasons why Cindy and George never made any attempt to gain custody. Certainly if they had, we wouldn't be posting here today.
jmo

I agree that if they had gotten custody, Caylee would most likely still be alive today and we certainly wouldn't have heard the words "she's been missing for 31 days" if the A's had gotten custody. And I'm sure that they know that too and I cannot imagine how they live with that knowledge now.

I never thought that money was the real reason they never did so either but having had family members that should not be raising kids I can tell you that there are an enormous amount of things that go through your mind when you are seriously considering getting custody of someone else's child. In my case, I didn't get my niece until she was 17 and I should have gotten her much sooner. But the point is that there are multiple reasons why one delays in doing something like that - from not wanting to create rifts in families, or separating the child from her parent(s), to believing things are changing for the better - that gimme one more chance thing that as family we desperately want to believe.

All that together with the fact that the A's had no reason to believe that KC was going to harm Caylee and the fact that she lived in their own home where they could see to her physical needs as well as emotional ones didn't place any urgency obtaining custody. It really was only going to be an issue if they insisted that KC leave and even though they were encouraged to do so, they never reached that point.

I don't understand why CA would give the reason of lack of money for not ever getting custody unless it was simply to dismiss the question because it is hard to explain the variety of reasons that go into putting off such a decision but I doubt money ever really had anything to do with it. I also think the A's would have been happy to have had KC decide to give them custody and let them raise Caylee but they couldn't bring themselves to force the issue. Of course things would have been different if they had but again, they didn't see THIS coming despite the issues they did know of with KC.

 

[MidAtlanticNative]

I have to imagine that even though she clearly adored Caylee and obviously thought Casey was unfit in some way, she is 50 years old. She probably didnt WANT to have full-time responsibility for Caylee, and probably also hoped that Casey would grow up one of those days. Although my mom is quite a bit older than Cindy, and although she adores her grandchildren, there is no way she would be able to be the sole caretaker of them. It just gets to be exhausting at a certain age. I am sure Cindy would have done it if she had to (if Casey died for example) but probably hoping that Casey would get herself together she just never got to that point. I agree that the money for legal costs is not the real reason. I believe part of her guilt stems from the fact that not only did she not seek custody, but that she really didnt want custody.

(bold mine)

Excellent point.

 

[doogiesgirl]

To give the appearance of trying to get the car. How do you get someone to pick you, take you to buy a gas can, and then not get a gallon or two of gas and go get your car?

There is no history of her finally making to the lot to find her car gone, which should have happened if she wanted it back.

I can't recall off hand what time she showed up at Amy's on the 30th but I have no problem believing she had already swung by Amscott and seen her car gone. This could have been a plan of hers so that later she could say "why would I go buy a gas can if I didn't plan on picking my car up". Or to set up Amy. Or if JG had responded on the 28th (is that the date you said?) that may have been a ploy to get his prints all over her car. Then she could have turned around after he left and left it parked right where it was before. You notice she tried him frist then when that didn't work out--she had to move onto another thought. MOO