Why doesn't anyone think it could've been John.

  • #301
This theory is possible but is it likely? We know John Ramsey had affairs.
Why not continue to have affairs when PR was undergoing treatment?
He had money and status. He didn't need to turn to JB for situational sex IMO. He either is or isn't a pedo.
He could have bought all the sex he wanted and we know he talks a good game. If he can sell a kidnapping story, he can bs to get a little!
Has anyone ever considered that maybe Patsy Ramsey was having an affair and someone associated with her did this to the little girl. I mean she was home during the day and did not work so it is very possible that maybe she ended the affair and it sparked something in the individual. Just a thought I mean either could have had an affair and the amount of the bonus could have been mentioned to anyone that either one of them trusted to tell.
 
  • #302
The biggest issue is the link of Patsy to the Ransom note, the handwriting samples, the RN analysis. It's hard to say that the chemo diminished Patsy's strength and she was frail. Patsy was diagnosed on July 4th 1993. Her final chemo treatment was somewhere in the ballpark of March 1994. She had 1.5 years to recover. If the swing was done right, Patsy could have caused the injury.

The biggest JDI advocate out there is DocG. Solving the JonBenet Ramsey Case Some people here will tell you how wrong DocG is because he vigorously defends his theory and ignores some evidence. That's true. For me, I believe DocG only went so far on the case, decided he had it and stopped asking questions. Case solved. That's it. The end.

John's motive is always sexual. He's not portrayed as a pedophile who seeks out children, but as a sexual situational aggressor. Basically, if Patsy isn't available, he'll turn to his daughter if they're in the right place and time. In this theory, John knows he'll be exposed so in a moment of panic, he kills his daughter. He's 52 at this time in his life, has money, and can seek out call girls for his sexual needs if he's so inclined so turning to his daughter makes him infinitely worse if he did such a thing.

JDI is a valid theory. It's every bit as valid as PDI. I'm not in the BDI camp not because I don't think Burke could have done it, but because James Kolar's most compelling piece of evidence, the train track, is wrong. It's like Lou Smit and the stun gun--easily debunked.
JR cheated on his first wife. He was cheating on a girlfriend with Patsy. This sounds like a player or P hound not a pedo. I just don't subscribe to JR not knowing where to seek out fun. He was away on business alot.
He had money and status. My gut says he didn't have to go without.
Now, occasionally, when I see him lie like a corporate sociopath, we'll maybe he's both!
 
  • #303
You all are a lot more knowledgeable able all the actors in this crime. However, I do think these statements are true:

1) The ransom note was written by Patsy. (I have a friend who is a certified hand writing expert who was consulted on the JBR case who said he was 90% sure she wrote the ransom note and reported back accordingly.)
2) The knock in the head probably came from Burke and Patsy tried to cover it up with the garrote and strangulation.
3) They lawyered up so much and the Boulder PD was so bad that they never had enough evidence to bring the case forward for prosecution.
4) I think John went straight to bed due to heavy drinking and that Patsy witnessed the aftermath of the pineapple incident and knew she was dead and sent Burke to bed and told him to be quiet.

But then again, what do I know.

Please shoot holes in these points.
 
  • #304
How does any of the following fit with Burke as opposed to an adult being the party responsible for the knock on the head:

1. A trophy being knocked off of a shelf too high up for JBR to be able to reach in a bedroom that is otherwise neat.

2. JBR's toilet containing unflushed waste.

3. A pair of JBR's soiled pants being inside-out on her bathroom floor.

4. A diaper having been pulled partway out of a package of diapers on JBR's shelf and too high up for JBR to be able to reach.

5. First responders claiming the bedroom stank of urine.

6. JBR's urine-stained bedsheet being in the dryer.

7. The top Patsy claimed to have put JBR to bed in being on top of JBR's bathroom sink.
 
  • #305
How does any of the following fit with Burke as opposed to an adult being the party responsible for the knock on the head:

1. A trophy being knocked off of a shelf too high up for JBR to be able to reach in a bedroom that is otherwise neat.

2. JBR's toilet containing unflushed waste.

3. A pair of JBR's soiled pants being inside-out on her bathroom floor.

4. A diaper having been pulled partway out of a package of diapers on JBR's shelf and too high up for JBR to be able to reach.

5. First responders claiming the bedroom stank of urine.

6. JBR's urine-stained bedsheet being in the dryer.

7. The top Patsy claimed to have put JBR to bed in being on top of JBR's bathroom sink.

Interesting.. If factual, those are very interesting points
 
  • #306
  • #307
Fwiw my sources are the crime-scene walkthrough video, Patsy's police interview transcript and Steve Thomas' book.

Do you think that Patsy wrote the ransom note?
 
  • #308
I would add that it’s arguable that the DA’s office was at least as much to blame as the BPD was, perhaps more so. BPD was responsible for some key mistakes early on, but then pretty much got on track. The DA’s office actively worked to obstruct the investigation, meddled and gave unprecedented assistance to the defense. The GJ (which DA Hunter literally had to be forced into convening) returned two true bills for each parent based upon evidence and testimony. Hunter declined to prosecute and withheld the fact that the GJ did vote to indict from the public for 13 years.
 
  • #309
  • #310
Probably. What do you think?

I'm 90% sure she did so she was involved in the death or at the minimum trying to cover it up
 
  • #311
JR cheated on his first wife. He was cheating on a girlfriend with Patsy. This sounds like a player or P hound not a pedo. I just don't subscribe to JR not knowing where to seek out fun. He was away on business alot.
He had money and status. My gut says he didn't have to go without.
Now, occasionally, when I see him lie like a corporate sociopath, we'll maybe he's both!
Apparently it was widely accepted that John was having an affair with a woman at Access Graphics. I don't want to say who the rumor was about and I can't give you my two (authoritative) sources because then you will know who. She talked to the police early on and, I suspect, gave the police an earful about Patsy.
 
  • #312
No intruder would have written that note. Anyone planning to kidnap JB would have brought a prepared note with them - and it would have been typed. The fact that it was written in disguised, inconsistent handwriting on Ramsey paper with a Ramsey pen means that it was almost certainly a scrabbled together, spontaneous letter born of desperation & intent to mislead.

An intruding pervert would never have hung around like that - he’d have taken her and gone. The forensics indicate that she was abused while unconscious so, if an intruder didn’t need her awake, why leave her at all? Anyone coming in to take JB, for any reason, would have done exactly that - not hung around writing long letters, cleaning her body, searching for fresh underwear and then hiding her in the most remote part of the house.

No way. It was someone in the house. Or, maybe, two as many believe.

Even if Burke abused her then hit her with the torch, he didn’t write the letter, fashion the garrotte or clean her - that had to be either of her parents, or both working together.

I find this absurd, quite frankly, and the CBS documentary pushing this explanation is farcical.

In what universe do two parents find their child unconcious and, rather than call an ambulance, finish her off by garrotting her, violate her with a paint brush and then leave her dumped like so much rubbish in the basement?

These two brainiacs then stage a failed kidnap plot/sex crime scenario which they then immediately ruin by calling the police in the early hours. The ransom letter achieved nothing at all for them...so why bother to write it - on their own paper, with their own pen with their own hand!

Would it not have been easier just to put her at the bottom of the spiral stairs and say she fell if they wanted a cover up? Who the hell disguises an accident as a murder?

Please.

And why stage a kidnap, leave a letter full of threats to kill if the police are called - and then immediately call the police?

As Judge Judy says, if it makes no sense, it’s because it’s not true. But that ransom letter was written for a reason.

I think this is what happened:

John went to JB’s room after Patsy was asleep. She got upset (of course) and maybe became noisy in her distress. John takes her downstairs to placate her - feeds her pineapple and makes himself tea, as a cover in case Pasty comes down. He tries to calm JB but can’t. She says she’s telling Mummy and in a panic, John hits her with the torch causing immediate unconsciousness.

He thinks she’s dead. This head injury was not survivable so her breathing may have been instantly supressed & her pulse faint, so a panicked man could think this.

He knows his abuse of her earlier could be evident on her body so he cleans her pubic area, discards her underwear and sneaks upstairs for a fresh pair. At this stage he is planning a “she fell down the stairs in the night” accident scene.

He then worries that systemic abuse of her might be evident internally & his DNA may even be inside her body so he changes his plan to one of “sex pervert broke in”. He takes her to the basement, uses the painbrush to try and remove traces of himself by causing bruising & bleeding (which wouldn’t have worked if she was dead, but he didn’t know that) and stages the garrotte to make it look like a sex crime. This actually kills her, which he may or may not have known.

He then goes back to bed having hidden her body but continues to worry - what if the autopsy finds XYZ? He’s no expert, but he doesn’t want to risk it. Seeing that Patsy is fast asleep, he goes back downstairs and writes the ransom letter - his best bet is to make sure that JB’s body never ends up being autopsied at all.

He wants to get her out of the house so fills the ransom letter with dire threats if the police are called, hoping that this will cause Patsy to be willing to delay calling 911. He will send her & Burke to a friends house while he “collects the ransom money” but is really hiding JB’s body far from home.

But, Patsy, in her panic gets to the phone before he can stop her, and his plan is foiled.

What people hear as “We’re not talking to you” at the end of the 911 could have been him saying “Who are you talking to?” as he comes into the kitchen as she’s hanging up. He may have tried to tell her to call the White’s first, or something, but in her state she got confused.

If John did it in the way you think he did, I think Patsy would have turned on John.
 

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