Why GJ Likely Solved Case In 1999

[emmcee]

. . . .
Now its entirely possible that Burke whacked JonBenet, and the rest is staging . . . . .

This sounds plausible. This whole discussion is most interesting.

Does anyone know where Burke is these days?

 

[UKGuy]

This sounds plausible. This whole discussion is most interesting.

Does anyone know where Burke is these days?

I think he is at University these days or soon will be, BlueCrab might expand more on this topic?

Most of the theories are plausible, IMO, due to the crime scene staging, this allows people to cherry pick the evidence to suit their favorite whodunnit.

So in some respects following the evidence may mean reading the runes of staging.

 

[BlueCrab]

Does anyone know where Burke is these days?

emmcee,

Eighteen-year-old Burke Ramsey lives with his parents at their home in Charlevoix County, Michigan. However, Burke seems to have a connection to another nearby state that I may report back on at a later date.

 

[sissi]

In our town we have a "shock trauma" center, where miracles have been accomplished through modern methods, given this I can not say this would have been a mortal wound, unless death ocurred at the instant of impact. Upon finding a child in a coma, no obvious signs of head injury, a parent would call an ambulance or rush the child to an emergency room. If anyone is bent on a staging theme ,better to go with someone strangled her and mom hit her on the head to put her out of her misery. However, again, with any signs of life, I'd expect an emergency room visit. Then of course let's think about the staging, why would John Ramsey undo it, first with closing the window, followed by removing tape from her mouth and restraints from her hands.
The note, for some eliminates a "Kondro" kinda guy. Why? He murdered children that trusted him, one called him "uncle", he knew the little code word of one ,"unicorn", to gain confidence. He did "DRY" runs!! Why not consider a type ,similar to him, could create a note to throw off the child who couldn't read the contents, and the parents who could and would think a kidnapping. Did it buy time? Expecting to buy a few hours, however getting lucky with buying eight years, the note worked for him.

 

[emmcee]

emmcee,

Eighteen-year-old Burke Ramsey lives with his parents at their home in Charlevoix County, Michigan. However, Burke seems to have a connection to another nearby state that I may report back on at a later date.

Thank you so much for responding. I can't help but wonder when he gets out on his own if more light will be shed on this whole situation.

 

[RedChief]

RedChief,

Surely we dont need pdf exegesis to tell us JonBenet's skull would be less than fully formed than say a teenager?

Now its entirely possible that Burke whacked JonBenet, and the rest is staging, along with Ramsey dissembling and lawyering up, this is a BDI which appears credible.

But how likely was it?

There is such violent intent implied in her head trauma it appears to transcend an accident.

From memory the area directly beneath the site of the head trauma , ie those brain structures would be damaged, how extensively it would manifest itself would depend precisely on which structures were damaged.

I guess she may have been paralysed and appeared lifeless after the blow to the head.

The PDF files that I wanted to examine concerned experiments with skull elasticity and fracture force; so, I was real interested in them. Guess I'm going to have to download acrobat after all.

The quest is not to determine whether the skull of a 6-yr-old is less fully formed than that of a teenager, but to determine how much force/impact/engery would be required to produce the fracture that JonBenet suffered. I don't think we suffer from too much information; I think we suffer from too much speculation.

As for her being paralyzed, some experts opined that she might have had no more than a headache and have been fully conscious. Others have opined that she might have been knocked unconscious by the blow. Others have opined that she may have convulsed or seized. Too much diverse opining. It's not helpful.

What we need here are true experts who can settle all these conundrums.

I thought that the brain contusion underlying the fracture along it's entire length might be indicative of something important for us to know; just what, if anything, I can't be certain. Maybe brain contusion ALWAYS accompanies fractures, but I doubt it.

It appears to me that not only did the skull separate, it underwent considerable deformation along the entire length of the fracture, during the process.

Thoughts?

 

[sissi]

If you find them I would love the link, RedChief.
Someone took a flashlight and cracked a styrofoam ball and called it a day. Often I have wondered if there isn't some law of physics, Gforce, mass..equation that would give up pounds of pressure..then what? How do we apply that (if we find it) to a six year olds skull? Didn't we all look at coup , coutercoup ..something about opposite side of impact damage?
To sum it up, I don't think "we" can resolve this . We could call in a physics whizz..or a neurosurgeon..but likely they couldn't meld their info to create a good explanation .
My guess, and yeah, I love to guess, is she was lying on the floor when kicked in the head with a steel toed boot. Her neck wasn't broken, which I consider when thinking of a fall with impact hard enough to cause that fracture, the same for sitting or standing erect when hit.

 

[BlueCrab]

From the following website http://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/:

The average (50th percentile) sized 10 year old boy is 54"-55" tall and weighs ~70 lbs. Therefore, Burke would have been bigger than the "average" boy if he were 90 lbs at the time of JB's murder.

bensmom98,

Yesterday I re-weighed my 10-year-old grandson and measured him. He weighs 105 pounds and is 61 inches in height. He appears about the same weight and height as the other 10-year-olds he plays with. I think these government height and weight charts are way off -- unless the kids here in Florida just grow bigger than kids in the rest of the country.

IMO Burke Ramsey, when 10, would have weighed at least 90 pounds -- twice the size of JonBenet.

 

[RedChief]

If you find them I would love the link, RedChief.
Someone took a flashlight and cracked a styrofoam ball and called it a day. Often I have wondered if there isn't some law of physics, Gforce, mass..equation that would give up pounds of pressure..then what? How do we apply that (if we find it) to a six year olds skull? Didn't we all look at coup , coutercoup ..something about opposite side of impact damage?
To sum it up, I don't think "we" can resolve this . We could call in a physics whizz..or a neurosurgeon..but likely they couldn't meld their info to create a good explanation .
My guess, and yeah, I love to guess, is she was lying on the floor when kicked in the head with a steel toed boot. Her neck wasn't broken, which I consider when thinking of a fall with impact hard enough to cause that fracture, the same for sitting or standing erect when hit.

Take that!

What works best for me, disregarding all the other evidence, is that she was lying on her tummy (prone) with her head (1.) on a pillow, or mattress, or other relatively soft surface (couch?), and (2.) turned to her right; and struck by someone standing to either the left or right of her, but probably to the right of her, and about even with her shoulders. There was a minor bruise on her right shoulder that could have been produced in the same swing that fractured the skull, the skull having absorbed the lion's share of the blow.

This posture and head cushioning could account for the nature and extent of the temporal lobe bruising; the right pole bruising being more extensive than the left and being primarily coup bruising, and the relatively minor left pole bruising being contre coup, and resulting from movement of the head (and brain) during, and as a result of, impact. There was enough movement of the head to allow the contre coup injury, but not enough to allow neck injury.

It's interesting (to me) to note that she evidently urinated while on her tummy. There could be two alternative explanations for this: (1.) she urinated immediately following the blow to the head, or (2.) she had already wet herself prior to receiving the blow. She may have been in bed when all this happened. Pssst--We may be hit with an asteroid within the next hour and a half.

Her neck wasn't broken: dontcha think kicking her in the head hard enough to produce that awesome head injury, while she lay on the floor, would very likely have injured the neck? What would have prevented the head from moving sufficiently under that enormous impact to cause injurious strain to the neck? I doubt she was kicked as you have proposed, for the simple reason that there was no imprint in the flesh of the scalp to suggest that.

It has always fascinated me that the bulk of her injuries were right-side injuries; the only exceptions were the mystery marks on her left lower back and left leg. I don't consider the petechiae in the left delto-pectoral groove an injury; rather what resulted when she was strangled.

I'm guessing she was struck with a bat, but as for the possibility of receiving the head injury in a fall, whether the neck would have been injured would depend on exactly how she fell--her trajectory and how she landed. If she fell backwards, consistent with her wound, she could have struck her head toward the back without hurting her neck.

Note that she has no frontal torso injuries; just the neck abrasions probably attributable in whole or in part to the ligature.

Added: pressure is expressed as force per unit area. Example: pounds per square inch. For a given force, say, 100 lb, the smaller the area of application of the force, the greater the pressure. A 100 lb force acting over 100 square inches produces 1 pound per square inch. The same 100 pound force acting over 1 square inch produces 100 pounds per square inch. In both cases the applied force is the same. The higher the pressure, the greater the tendency to penetrate.

Momentum and impact: Let's use the swinging bat as an example and stay away from esoteric terms. When the bat is swung, energy is imparted to it. The greater the duration of the swing and the greater the force applied to the handle during the swing, the greater the amount of energy flowing out of the muscles that produce the swing and into the bat. Energy is conserved. The energy which leaves the muscles shows up in the bat and in the air around the bat (friction) and in other tissues in the arms as they swing. The arms aren't 100% efficient as energy transmitters. The muscles do work on the arms and the body as well as on the bat. Work is energy in transition at a boundary; IOW energy can be expressed as foot-pounds; the action of a force through a distance. The heavier the bat, the more the energy that can be imparted to it during the swing, but the more powerful the muscles that are necessary to swing it. No one can swing a 1,000 lb bat. Conversely, no one can crack a skull with a 1 ounce bat. Whereas the 1,000 lb bat can't be swung at all, the 1 ounce bat can't absorb enough energy during the swing to do appreciable damage on impact. Finally, as regards impact and momentum. They are equivalent except that momentum refers to the energy of a moving object, whereas impact refers to the transfer of that energy when the object ceases to move--is brought to a halt. The quicker the object (in this discussion, the bat) is brought to a halt by whatever it strikes, the greater the force of the impact. Math and physics allows that the force could be INFINITE, but practical situations aren't such that infinite force ever developes.

What this all boils down to is that if the swinger is powerful enough and the bat is heavy enough and the skull is frangible enough, a fracture will develop, the extent of which will be directly proportional to the force of impact. Also, the damage to the brain will be proportional to this force; but, remember, it's possible to do more damage (diffuse axonal damage) to the brain by cushioning the head during impact than by striking the uncushioned head; so, it's possible to do severe damage to the brain and have NO fracture. Conversely, it's possible to have a fracture without any accompanying brain damage.

I rest my case and request my two cents....

 

[sissi]

Do I understand this as, if she was seated (right now , I'm not accounting for her being prone on a mattress), and a person raised a "bat"or flashlight, and whacked her in the head, the most efficient momentum and force would be applied. However if she was lying on the floor, the impact would be lessened by the time the arms got the bat to the bottom of it's arc.? Maybe that's not the right term, but I'm picturing it as a 180* with the most force applied around 90*? Anything higher, less force..lower less ,as well?

 

[RedChief]

Do I understand this as, if she was seated (right now , I'm not accounting for her being prone on a mattress), and a person raised a "bat"or flashlight, and whacked her in the head, the most efficient momentum and force would be applied. However if she was lying on the floor, the impact would be lessened by the time the arms got the bat to the bottom of it's arc.? Maybe that's not the right term, but I'm picturing it as a 180* with the most force applied around 90*? Anything higher, less force..lower less ,as well?

sissi,

Well, if she were seated on a barstool, she'd be pretty high off the floor. If she were seated on an ottoman, she'd be pretty low to the floor. If she were seated (even lying) on her bed, she'd be somewhere in between those two extremes. If she were seated at the dining table, the height of her head above the floor, would depend on the height of the seat with respect to the floor. So, it all depends. All things are relative.

Let's assume we're envisioning the use of a bat. If her head were about ball high (mid-chest?), that'd probably be close to ideal for a horizontal swing. That might even be close to ideal for a vertical swing. I'm not a ball player.

I'm proposing that the swing was more or less vertical and the head was "bed high". All this would also depend on the height of the batter and the length of his arms. Lots of variables. Also, you'd have to consider the possibility that the batter was on his knees. If he were on his knees, he'd probably hit a floor target harder than if he were standing. Use your common sense; your good Northern common sense.

If you're making a vertical swing with a bat at a target that's waist high, you'll automatically try to pump all your energy into the swing by the time the bat hits the target. If you're making a similar swing at a target that's chest high, the same applies. If you were to truncate your swing at shoulder level, while striking vertically at a floor target, you'd not hit it as hard as if you had adjusted your swing to match the requirement.

Moreover, when swinging a bat vertically at a "low altitude" target, you could raise the bat handle (where you're gripping it) high overhead (stretch), and lower your body, even bending your knees, as the swing progresses and get more energy into the swing that way. Lots of possibilities.

However it was done, the club missed the ear. Might be able to deduce something from that.

Ask Wecht; he'd know. Do you think you could do more damage with a bat, or with a 3-cell maglite? Would there be any evidence on the interior of the flashlight to suggest that it had been used as a bludgeon? Why would a Ramsey leave the flashlight in plain sight after using it thus? Which costs more, the maglite or the stun gun?

 

[sissi]

Gee, my northern sense, is it failing me? I would think if one were on their knees it would kinda' cut back on the force? I would think a horizontal hit wouldn't be likely to hit her in the spot where the bones was shattered. A direct hit to the back of her head "maybe"with someone standing above her.
Best guess for me, is going to remain, "steel toed boot" kick in the head as he was leaving, good measure ,angry comment.

 

[RedChief]

Gee, my northern sense, is it failing me? I would think if one were on their knees it would kinda' cut back on the force? I would think a horizontal hit wouldn't be likely to hit her in the spot where the bones was shattered. A direct hit to the back of her head "maybe"with someone standing above her.
Best guess for me, is going to remain, "steel toed boot" kick in the head as he was leaving, good measure ,angry comment.

There comes a time in every man's/woman's life when he/she sticks to his/her opinion no matter what evidence to the contrary.

It's obvious that if you were on your knees while striking a target on the floor with a bat or a flashlight you could hit it harder than if you were standing. Try it, and see for yourself. It's a no-brainer.

Also, you have to take into consideration the point of impact on the skull; any theory you come up with has to permit that; also your theory has to allow avoidance of the ear. Anybody can make a scientific wild-assed guess, but what good is it?

No to the steel-toed boot; no evidence of it and it would likely have broken her neck, and not fractured her skull.

I can see we're at loggerheads on this one. You want her to be kicked in the head while lying on the floor (or the ground?), and I want her to be whacked on the head while lying in her bed. heh heh

 

[bensmom98]

...unless the kids here in Florida just grow bigger than kids in the rest of the country.

You know Blue, that may be true. It could be all that sunshine in FLA that makes the kids grow bigger :waitasec: . Here in Northern Vermont (where it is not so sunny) I have a neighbor who has a 10 year old who weighs ~100 lbs, and she is always talking about how huge he is. That is why I was confused by your original post.

 

[K777angel]

emmcee,

Eighteen-year-old Burke Ramsey lives with his parents at their home in Charlevoix County, Michigan. However, Burke seems to have a connection to another nearby state that I may report back on at a later date.

Hmm Bluecrab - might this "connection" be a young lady?? :blushing:

 

[Jayelles]

Hmm Bluecrab - might this "connection" be a young lady?? :blushing:

Or a university place? I know he was rumoured to be considering university in Michigan, but perhaps the Ramseys have reconsidered?

BC? Will you share?

 

[CinnamonGirl]

bensmom98,

Yesterday I re-weighed my 10-year-old grandson and measured him. He weighs 105 pounds and is 61 inches in height. He appears about the same weight and height as the other 10-year-olds he plays with. I think these government height and weight charts are way off -- unless the kids here in Florida just grow bigger than kids in the rest of the country.

IMO Burke Ramsey, when 10, would have weighed at least 90 pounds -- twice the size of JonBenet.

We just moved here to Florida in August and my daughter is 5 and weighed 48 pounds when we moved here from the north,she now weighs 59 pounds.It has to be something here making them big and she has grown a few inches too.

 

[Jayelles]

We just moved here to Florida in August and my daughter is 5 and weighed 48 pounds when we moved here from the north,she now weighs 59 pounds.It has to be something here making them big and she has grown a few inches too.

That's a big growth spurt! My daughter is also 5 and she weighs 39lbs. She's 42 inches tall.

 

[BlueCrab]

BC? Will you share?

Jayelles,

Sorry, it's too preliminary. And I could be barking up the wrong tree.

 

[GuruJosh]

Hmm Bluecrab - might this "connection" be a young lady?? :blushing:

LOL a young lady who's in for a wild ride!