Why No AMBER Alert Issued For Baby Gabriel?

[BeanE]

The statement about her being out of town and they were okay with that came from a Tempe LE quote --
BRB

Yes, I know, but I have every reason to believe that Logan was not at all okay with his baby having been kidnapped.

ETA: Reference: Questions for the Family thread

 

[Gin]

Yes, I know, but I have every reason to believe that Logan was not at all okay with his baby having been kidnapped.

ETA: Reference: Questions for the Family thread

Exactly. And I'm also not at all OK with there being well known "stringent" requirements for an Amber Alert. As it stands, a criminal birth mother like EJ is allowed to play the system to her advantage. How convenient.

Seems to me a missing and endangered baby is worth an alert, period.

 

[BeanE]

Exactly. And I'm also not at all OK with there being well known "stringent" requirements for an Amber Alert. As it stands, a criminal birth mother like EJ is allowed to play the system to her advantage. How convenient.

Seems to me a missing and endangered baby is worth an alert, period.

Logan had been alerting authorities of various sorts since July that Elizabeth posed a threat to Gabe. As soon as she took off, LE should have been out in force looking for to rescue Gabe. Actually it should never have reached that point. Logan shouldn't have been forced on Dec 8 by LE to take Gabe back to Elizabeth.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that's how I feel.

 

[BeanE]

You all probably remember Tammi when she got released from jail in that interview outside the jail saying that Logan should have gone to San Antonio that week and inferring he didn't care about Gabe.

Logan did an interview in response to Tammi's allegations. I found the article. There was a video too, which I unfortunately couldn't find. I'll keep looking, but meanwhile, here's a quote:

Smith is accused of trying to rip custody of Gabriel away from McQueary. And now, while he's on the road searching for his boy, Smith questioned why it took him so long.

“The Tempe Police Department requested that we stay there so they could help us with the investigation. They wanted me to stay there and they said you need to stay here. If they hadn’t of said that, I would have already been gone and on the road," said McQueary.

As soon as he got the go ahead, McQueary left for San Antonio, the last place Gabriel was spotted.

Baby Gabriel's Dad Fires Back, Hires PI
http://www.kpho.com/news/22459066/detail.html

 

[not_my_kids]

I don't understand how they could decline to issue the AA, if they were asked.

I know that Gabe didn't meet the criteria, especially time wise, but I don't understand why the rules didn't get bent for another LE request. The rules are bendable, and I have seen it where they issue an AA for several states...just recently there was one for Nevada, California, and Arizona, I think.
I've seen one AA cover half the country.

I wanted so badly to believe that all the agencies involved were cooperating and doing what they could to find Gabriel. So much for that, it seems the mistakes started early this time.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Amber alerts are for specific info....when make of car, description of person who took the child are available

IF they keep "beinding the rules" for every case then Amber alerts will not mean much

there was nothing specific to look for , and E was saying that she had killed Gabe

 

[kileyizzle]

I think it's easier to look back & point out what was missing, and what wasn't done.

But specifically with AA, there has been concern over the pat that they are sometimes being used, too much, in the long run making them less of an impact.

Because of the Age of Gabriel there would of been a whole other set of problems, when the child is a little bit older, thy have the ability to speak up display behaviours to arouse suspicion, physically his face would of been harder to spot etc etc

It would of been helpfull for there to be an AA out, but it Also could of caused more harm, pending both EJ & PTS are skewed characters, <mentally>

JMO

 

[BeanE]

I don't understand how they could decline to issue the AA, if they were asked.

I know that Gabe didn't meet the criteria, especially time wise, but I don't understand why the rules didn't get bent for another LE request. The rules are bendable, and I have seen it where they issue an AA for several states...just recently there was one for Nevada, California, and Arizona, I think.
I've seen one AA cover half the country.

I wanted so badly to believe that all the agencies involved were cooperating and doing what they could to find Gabriel. So much for that, it seems the mistakes started early this time.

NMK, do you think the criteria wasn't met even if the request for the AA was sent prior to Dec 27?

ETA: That is, when they would have been on the lookout for Eliz w/Gabe, knew her car, etc?

 

[LogicalMinds]

Accrding to the calendar posted on here, the custody hearing was the 17th...Elizabeth left Arizona with Gabe on the 18...and Logan realizes they have left on the 20??? that is what the calendar on here says....emergency hearing that monday, the 21

so when did he ask for an Amber alert?? I think they are by nature for "immediate" resonse..

from what I can see, Elizabeth told him that she had "killed Gabe" on the 27....a full 10 days after she left with him....so when did he ask for an amber alert...or did he?? I don't think it met the criteria really

plus IF we are gonna play "coulda, shoulda, woulda"...one might ask why on earth Elizabeth was even allowed to be around a baby that she neglected, called "Thing", destroyed stuff in the apartment, destroyed Gabe's things....why was she even allowed to be near him?? "Anger management classes">>? JMO she should have had a nice long stay in a mental hospital and MAYBE been near the baby under strict supevision when her "blood levels" proved that she was taking her psych meds

IF you really want to prevent these tragedies swift intervention is needed

she was violent and vindictive before, I don't think she changed

of course they say the 2 saddest words in the English language are "if only"...(and I agree)

I don't think an amber alert would have done any good here really

getting custody and a restraining order enforced last summer would have been the best idea JMO

 

[BeanE]

Accrding to the calendar posted on here, the custody hearing was the 17th...Elizabeth left Arizona with Gabe on the 18...and Logan realizes they have left on the 20??? that is what the calendar on here says....emergency hearing that monday, the 21

so when did he ask for an Amber alert?? I think they are by nature for "immediate" resonse..

from what I can see, Elizabeth told him that she had "killed Gabe" on the 27....a full 10 days after she left with him....so when did he ask for an amber alert...or did he?? I don't think it met the criteria really

plus IF we are gonna play "coulda, shoulda, woulda"...one might ask why on earth Elizabeth was even allowed to be around a baby that she neglected, called "Thing", destroyed stuff in the apartment, destroyed Gabe's things....why was she even allowed to be near him?? "Anger management classes">>? JMO she should have had a nice long stay in a mental hospital and MAYBE been near the baby under strict supevision when her "blood levels" proved that she was taking her psych meds

IF you really want to prevent these tragedies swift intervention is needed

she was violent and vindictive before, I don't think she changed

of course they say the 2 saddest words in the English language are "if only"...(and I agree)

I don't think an amber alert would have done any good here really

getting custody and a restraining order enforced last summer would have been the best idea JMO

We're not clear on what date Tempe PD requested the Amber Alert. We haven't had anything yet to tell us the date it was requested. I think it may have been as early as Dec 21, but we just don't know yet.

The point at which Logan determined that Gabe was no longer safe with Elizabeth was on Dec 8. He ended their relationship because of that on that date. He took Gabe and left.

That's the point where things should have gone right, but they went wrong. Eliz called LE, and LE found Logan at his relative's home, and made him bring Gabe back to Eliz.

Logan never saw Gabe again.

He did everything right. The system failed him, and worse, failed Gabe.

Sorry for the rant. I've veered off-topic.

 

[not_my_kids]

NMK, do you think the criteria wasn't met even if the request for the AA was sent prior to Dec 27?

ETA: That is, when they would have been on the lookout for Eliz w/Gabe, knew her car, etc?

Of course, if it had been issued when she first took off him...of course, when she actually left Tempe, it wasn't kidnapping yet, so...

I just don't think it was ever a case where the AA criteria was met fully. That said, they have bent the rules before, and yes, I do think that they should have this time, given what they already knew about EJ. But it seems, even from LE statements that they weren't taking it seriously until the death text came in.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Sorry I don't think they should have bent the rules, in hindsight yeah we all want to see this baby found, but there is no reason for them to bend the rules

if they issue too many amber alerts they risk people turning off their messages, they risk more communities limiting the freeway/highway alerts....it can be overkill

So far we don't even know when they "asked" for an amber alert...or why...and we don't even know it it would qualify....until she said "I killed him" there was no "official" reason to think that he was in danger

"did everything right"?> sorry I don't think so...a restraining order and emergency custody hearing last summer...pressing charges for the destruction (they aren't married, presumably some stuff was his alone)....keeping her away from the baby...calling the police and having her arrested if she violated the restraining order
and/or trying to get her help....if Arizona has it her dad could have "Baker Acted" her

pressing charges..and trying to get a deal where she had to accept help for her obvious problems as part of the sentence

all of those seem like "right things" to me

 

[BeanE]

Of course, if it had been issued when she first took off him...of course, when she actually left Tempe, it wasn't kidnapping yet, so...

I just don't think it was ever a case where the AA criteria was met fully. That said, they have bent the rules before, and yes, I do think that they should have this time, given what they already knew about EJ. But it seems, even from LE statements that they weren't taking it seriously until the death text came in.

I'm thinking it was kidnapping because she was in violation of the joint custody order on the 20th, and on the 21st Logan had temp full custody. I'll put a question in the Legal questions thread. I'm assuming. I would think that would be at least custodial interference.

 

[not_my_kids]

I'm thinking it was kidnapping because she was in violation of the joint custody order on the 20th, and on the 21st Logan had temp full custody. I'll put a question in the Legal questions thread. I'm assuming. I would think that would be at least custodial interference.

In AZ, it might be custodial interference at that point. I can go on what I know here, and that is that until a court hearing is scheduled and missed to address the lack of shared custody, it is only contempt of court.
(Our laws suck.)

 

[not_my_kids]

Sorry I don't think they should have bent the rules, in hindsight yeah we all want to see this baby found, but there is no reason for them to bend the rules

if they issue too many amber alerts they risk people turning off their messages, they risk more communities limiting the freeway/highway alerts....it can be overkill

So far we don't even know when they "asked" for an amber alert...or why...and we don't even know it it would qualify....until she said "I killed him" there was no "official" reason to think that he was in danger

"did everything right"?> sorry I don't think so...a restraining order and emergency custody hearing last summer...pressing charges for the destruction (they aren't married, presumably some stuff was his alone)....keeping her away from the baby...calling the police and having her arrested if she violated the restraining order
and/or trying to get her help....if Arizona has it her dad could have "Baker Acted" her

pressing charges..and trying to get a deal where she had to accept help for her obvious problems as part of the sentence

all of those seem like "right things" to me

EJ was entered into a diversionary program not long ago, which means that someone did press charges and get her into court on the desctruction.
Restraining orders are paper...they mean nothing. Sometimes it's better to attempt to pacify someone than to expect a piece of paper to protect you. Under what exactly could they had her Baker Acted? As far as I know, you can harm clothing and furniture, but if she wasn't threatening suicide, homicide or serious bodily harm, a judge never would have allowed the Baker Act to come into play.
There is no way to know, without Logan and everyone else telling us, how many times they called CPS on her. They have their own screening programs and admittedly don't respond in many custody cases, they leave it for the courts since the parents are already involved with them.

I think the right things were done. Hindsight kinda goes in that direction too.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Yes NMK...which is why I said "if only" are the saddest words

I feel that he could have pressed for custody last summer...he took her back

just as so many battered women and women who lose their kids/life to abusive men take them back

the amber alert was a moot point since by the time it was asked for the "immediate" nature was days past (maybe 10 days??)

Besides the destruction in the apt, Elizabeth was neglecting her baby...leaving him in dirty diapers..calling him thing etc

they already had one "missing baby" report on Gabe....found him at her "friend's apt"...

maybe Logan should have tried to have charges pressed on her for that ?

 

[BeanE]

In AZ, it might be custodial interference at that point. I can go on what I know here, and that is that until a court hearing is scheduled and missed to address the lack of shared custody, it is only contempt of court.
(Our laws suck.)

Ah okay. That's the part I was missing. That would be why MissingGabe said that when Logan got temp full custody on the 21st, they pointed out to him that the next hearing Eliz knew about wasn't until the 28th.

That would account for no Amber Alert during the week of the 21st, as well as no Amber Alert on the 27th. Then the 28th when there was the hearing she missed, I guess the reason no AA might have been because they weren't sure what state she was in? Trying to remember. They lost her pings in Victoria TX. Hmmmm. Seems they still could have issued one in TX.

It wouldn't have done much good with her on the bus, and she was gone from TX within hours. They didn't know that though. To LE, it appeared she - and Gabe - were in TX and she had the car.

Which brings me all the way back to square one - I don't know why they didn't issue an AA. lol.

I wonder if AAs are broadcast to buses.

 

[BeanE]

Yes NMK...which is why I said "if only" are the saddest words

I feel that he could have pressed for custody last summer...he took her back

just as so many battered women and women who lose their kids/life to abusive men take them back

the amber alert was a moot point since by the time it was asked for the "immediate" nature was days past (maybe 10 days??)

Besides the destruction in the apt, Elizabeth was neglecting her baby...leaving him in dirty diapers..calling him thing etc

they already had one "missing baby" report on Gabe....found him at her "friend's apt"...

maybe Logan should have tried to have charges pressed on her for that ?

Logan was working very closely with LE, the courts, and CPS. In fact, Logan's father is Tempe LE. He followed the advice he was given. He did all the 'right' things. That's what makes this case particularly troublesome to me.

I think Logan wasn't taken as seriously as he should have been, because he's a dad. I think he may have been viewed by the system as simply a disgruntled guy complaining about his girlfriend, rather than as a caring dad with very serious, valid concerns about his son. IMO.

This didn't happen because Logan "should have" done something else and failed to. Read the case history. This failure was on the part of the system.

On Dec 8, the system should have allowed Gabe to remain with Logan at his relative's home where he was safe and well taken care of.

 

[chell]

And the system doesn't know all that it should about the very real dangers a woman wrestling with post partum depression can present to those around her. Couple that with any unsettling effects that the foster care system may have had on her long term mental wellness (I feel pretty sure there were probably lots of negative effects), I wonder if it was difficult for LM to know what was a real threat to G , what was too risky to allow and what wasn't.
If the relationship was falling apart anyway (I don't know that it was), any father could have been thinking "no news is good news" and appreciated some time without having to deal with a problematic person. He also might have thought that making a complaint to LE would just further aggravate the situation. But the thing is, G needed an advocate and it seems like he really didn't have one who understood the danger had to be stopped and NOW!

A young guy who worked with my husband a few years ago got sent overseas longterm on a work related project only to have his in-laws make an emergency call to him begging him to return immediately. Problem was they'd found their young grandkids had been left by their daughter while she went out partying--they were at home alone all night. My husband felt bad for the guy and I had a hard time identifying with his feelings of empathy. His young employee explained that apparently his wife had done this stuff lots of times before. My obvious reaction was that if he was aware his wife had no problem leaving young children in vulnerable situations and alone, then why on earth would he leave his defenseless innocents in her care and take a project that involved him being gone for so long and so far away. I guess I'm going all the way around the flagpole to say I really don't understand how leaving G in the care of someone thought to be irrational and unpredictable is something that could have been risked for even one hour and especially not until the court date rolled around. If there were legitimate opportunities to get some assistance in removing both G and EJ from a dangerous situation, and it sounds like there were, everyone who had exposure to this case should have ensured that it happened--CPS, the judge, G's family, LE, Babysitter, even TS. But I am also fully aware I am on the outside looking in.

 

[BeanE]

Well this is interesting. We're not the only ones who want to know what date Tempe PD issued the request for the Amber Alert:

4) the date and time of the request made by Tempe... and dates and times if there was more than one.

and the AG wouldn't even answer that.

It just goes to further prove that WSers ask good questions

http://www.kpho.com/download/2010/0217/22591030.pdf