Why Was Jonbenet Wearing The Wrong Sized Panties When She Was Found?

[sariebell]

Yup, I've always suspected that the size 12 panties were large so they would fit over an actual diaper. Perhaps she wore a diaper at night so that it would keep the sheets from getting wet.

 

[UKGuy]

Some basic info first. Jonbenet wore what's known as "Day of the Week Panties"...meaning a day of the week I suppose was printed on each panty.
She also wore a size 6. So, on Christmas day she was wearing a size 6 Wednesday pair.

When her body was found, she was wearing size 12 panties...they also were a Wednesday pair.

Both the size 6 panties and the size 12 panties belonged to the house. One story I had heard was that Patsy originally bought the size 12 ones for her niece, but Jonbenet wanted them for herself so much that Patsy decided to just keep them.
I can't be certain that story is accurate...or what the thought was there...if it was like, waiting for Jonbenet to reach the proper age before she was supposed to use them.

Anyways, the size 12 panties were located in Jonbenet's bedroom somewhere...while her size 6's were located in her bathroom.
Naturally I can't imagine Jonbenet actually wearing the size 12 ones...I severely doubt they would have even stayed on her waist.

So...on the 25th Jonbenet wore her size 6's, but when her body was found, she was wearing size 12's. I do not know if the size 6's she wore that day were recovered, or if they are missing.

If an intruder had come into the home and committed the crime...it may make sense that he may have taken her size 6's as a trophy (and in case her panties had DNA evidence on them)...however, why would he actually go back up through the house and get another, albeit the wrong size, to put on her? As well, why would an intruder take such care to make sure the panties he dressed her with was also a Wednesday pair? Wouldn't the intruder have noticed the panties were way too big for her?
Why was he even bothering with this time wasting act?

I do believe the size 12's were also taken right out of their packaging...I assume they had been unopened beforehand....though I might be wrong there.

It's another one of those rather odd things about this case...especially if relating it to a IDI theory.

SleuthingSleuth,

The size-12 underwear help pin down and illustrate a staged feature of JonBenet's crime-scene.

An intruder probably would not care either way about the underwear, or would not know.

It's another one of those rather odd things about this case...especially if relating it to a IDI theory.

Well its not odd if you consider JonBenet was redressed in those size-12's, the only possible reason an IDI would entertain redressing JonBenet in those size-12's would be to place her back in bed, so to make appearances look normal.

So...on the 25th Jonbenet wore her size 6's, but when her body was found, she was wearing size 12's. I do not know if the size 6's she wore that day were recovered, or if they are missing.

We dont know with 100% certainty that JonBenet wore size-6's on the day of the 25th, but if she did not then fiber analysis will reveal this, since there should be black velvet fibers on the new size-12's and size-12 underwear fibers on her black velvet pants worn to the White's, BPD probably already have these results.

Both the size 6 panties and the size 12 panties belonged to the house. One story I had heard was that Patsy originally bought the size 12 ones for her niece, but Jonbenet wanted them for herself so much that Patsy decided to just keep them.

This may be entirely untrue, and an after the fact explanation, why is Patsy giving away a gift, what use is that size to JonBenet?

Anyways, the size 12 panties were located in Jonbenet's bedroom somewhere...while her size 6's were located in her bathroom.
Naturally I can't imagine Jonbenet actually wearing the size 12 ones...I severely doubt they would have even stayed on her waist.

This may be totally untrue, I have no way of confirming this. It would make more sense for Patsy to keep allocated gifts in her own room. The remaining size-12 underwear that was handed into the BPD years later did not come with a location tag as far as I know?

Due to the blood stains on her size-12 underwear, JonBenet may have already been dressed in them prior to being relocated to the wine-cellar.

Speculating, someone may have retrieved the size-12's from wherever Patsy had stored them and redressed JonBenet in them, but this was done upstairs.

Its even possible post-staging the remaining underwear was placed in her bedroom drawer simply to distance the stager!

The real question behind the size-12's is why should JonBenet be wearing any underwear at all, was this normal practise for a girl who wet/soiled the bed?

Knowing this will give some insight into the redressers motives?




.

 

[Anita Richman]

Just wanted to note that on Christmas day, according to Patsy, JBR was having Burke read her the tags on the packages because she wasn't reading yet. (I thought it odd that at 6 she wouldn't know how to recognize her family's names.) I highly doubt that she would be able to read "Wednesday" if she couldn't read her own name.

 

[lighthouselover]

Yup, I've always suspected that the size 12 panties were large so they would fit over an actual diaper. Perhaps she wore a diaper at night so that it would keep the sheets from getting wet.

Didn't I read in one of "the books" (there's been so many), that there was a package of the Over-nites behind her bathroom door?

I can't remember which book I read it in though.

 

[wenchie]

I do believe it was Patsy herself who said she tore open that pack of new panties after she found Jonbenet wet in bed.

And there was a cupboard in the hallway laundry area that had an opened package of pull-ups or overnights hanging out of it.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I apologize for interrupting, but did Jonbenet wet to bed xmas night?

 

[concernedperson]

I am going to make this as simple as I can do. Patsy was extremely borderline. The panties indicate so much.I think she was entirely capable of pulling this off.But, certain aspects have led me to believe that Karr is a likely suspect.It is almost like aspects of dysfunction surface in different ways and the winner is the most dysfunctional.

 

[wenchie]

Patsy said that Jonbenet had wet the bed, and that she'd changed her and had torn open the package of new underwear.

I believe it's in DOI.

 

[lovebites]

Could the panties have been a gift from a relative who wasn't too good at figuring kid's sizes? JonBenet could have wanted to wear them because they were a gift.

 

[wenchie]

Could the panties have been a gift from a relative who wasn't too good at figuring kid's sizes? JonBenet could have wanted to wear them because they were a gift.

Not according to what Patsy said. She said they were a gift she had bought for someone else.

 

[Beyond Belief]

The idea this child wet to bed, did the mother state when she washed the sheets and wet clothing. I read a timeline, but it didn't mention this.

 

[lovebites]

Not according to what Patsy said. She said they were a gift she had bought for someone else.

Ahhhh :doh: . I think as more information about this case is going into my brain, some bits are falling back out.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Patsy said she had bought the underwear for her 12 year old niece, Jenny, as a Christmas gift. They were never sent. Here Patsy gets dodgy - she doesn't seem to know if the decision to keep them and use them for JB was her choice or JonBenet's. The package was located in the drawer in JonBenet's bathroom, and I think Ramsey PIs picked it up and held it, leaving the police wondering.

Everything about this sounds weird to me. Who buys underwear as a Christmas gift for a 12 year old girl? Why were they never sent? Looking at the pictures, I can't imagine a child wanting to wear underwear that was so huge, and as a mother, I wouldn't allow my child to wear underwear so ill-fitting even if they begged. So who dressed her in them, and why?

I usually think it had to have been Patsy who dressed her in them, because she would have been most likely to know where they were, and I think Patsy would be the one who would need the Wednesday to match up. But wouldn't she realize that they would ask questions about why a 6 year old was wearing size 12 undies?

 

[Hyatt]

I think that Patsy came up with the story about the panties being a gift later, after she was questioned about why Jonbenet was wearing such large panties.

Who would keep a gift intended for someone else in a drawer in a child's bedroom?

I opine that the large panties were some kind of "punishment" - for when Jonbenet wet her pants and had to wear pull-ups. The large size may have been so that they could be worn over the pullups, or over a diaper.

Patsy needed to downplay the bed-wetting problem, though - so, out came the "gift" story.

That's very good. Having a larger size to wear over pull-ups makes sense to me and I had never thought of that before.

JMO

 

[Anita Richman]

I think that Patsy came up with the story about the panties being a gift later, after she was questioned about why Jonbenet was wearing such large panties.

Who would keep a gift intended for someone else in a drawer in a child's bedroom?

I opine that the large panties were some kind of "punishment" - for when Jonbenet wet her pants and had to wear pull-ups. The large size may have been so that they could be worn over the pullups, or over a diaper.

Patsy needed to downplay the bed-wetting problem, though - so, out came the "gift" story.

I am NOT trying to "defend" anybody here...but I recall a specific incident in our home where I had purchased a cute pair of panties I knew my niece would adore...and set them aside to send. Being the :cough: procrastinator:cough: that I *sometimes* am, I didn't send them right away. (TRULY, I was waiting to find some other objects she would like so I wouldn't be sending "panties only" through the mail and looking like some "pedophile freak".) I left the package in my daughter's room for no other reason than everything else in that particular sack was for my daughter. Fast forward to two months later...Mr. Richman sees the package of size 6-8 panties...and puts them on our just newly-potty-training-almost-two-year-old. (He even stuck them UNDER an outfit, which looked a "little off".) :sigh:

**Disclaimer**The pair of panties that Mr. Richman put on the Richprincess was one of two (the smallest increment one could purchase said panties in said brand) and he stuffed the other half of the package (unceremoniously) in her panty drawer (still inside of the plastic housing!) He has since been instructed to NEVER open another package. Period. In our home.

 

[julianne]

Alot of people think that JonBenet was redressed in these size 12 panties after she was already dead. If that is the case, why were they stained with urine?

 

[trixie]

One possible explanation is that JR dressed her. He may have known of the day of the week businesss, but not been aquainted with panty sizes (how many fathers buy panties for their daughters?) He may simply have put the wrong size on her, and in a tense situation, he didn't think much of how they fit.

Men's underwear fits much looser than women's, generally. (especially true of boxer shorts) Many men simply would have no idea what size panties their wife/daughter wear. I have no idea what size my wife wears.
It is a dead body being dressed, so there is no issue of them falling down. It just might not have been that obvious to a male that they were the wrong size.
Another possibility is that an intruder put the wrong size on, for much the same reason. However, he'd have had to notice that they said "wednesday" and got the correct pair on her. Or he might have grabbed what was at hand and they just happened to be "wednesday".

THat's very interesting, the male point of view on this. Thank you for that!

 

[Anita Richman]

THat's very interesting, the male point of view on this. Thank you for that!

I agree, Trixie, the male point of view is very interesting in this. (Just like the various opinions on the "writing pad" thread, it's informative to read how and why other people act in "normal" circumstances to measure how and why potential perps do what they do!)

 

[lovebites]

Alot of people think that JonBenet was redressed in these size 12 panties after she was already dead. If that is the case, why were they stained with urine?

Yes, I'd also like to know how it was established with certainty that she was redressed.

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

Alot of people think that JonBenet was redressed in these size 12 panties after she was already dead. If that is the case, why were they stained with urine?

Elimination does occur after death, as well.

That may or may not have been the case with that pair.