WHY was the Ramsey plane NOT ready at 10 AM?

[newtv]

IF the plan was for the R's to leave Boulder area at o'dark thirty Dec 25, and the plane would take two hours to be readied when JR called at 10AM Dec 25th, HOW COME?

Time for DA Lacy to figure out this case. TELEPHONE RECORDS ARE NEEDED FOR DECEMBER 25 and 26th.

WE are told that JR spent hours at the airport on Christmas day. I am betting that he either called and filed a flight plan for the 26th on the 25th while he was at the airport.

I am betting that he fueled the plane on Christmas Day, IF IF IF he did there would be credit card records that HE DID.

DA Lacy needs to know WHO filed the flight plan and WHEN they filed it. A quick phone call to file the plan would not take but a few minutes.

WHY was the plane not ready at 10, and WHY was the pilot not there when JR called? The pilot returned JR's call later, WE donut know how much later after the call that the pilot returned JR's call, the DA Lacy needs to find that out.

JR sold his plane to the pilot one year later for a greatly reduced price. Story was that JR 'needed money' for legal expenses.

I don't have my DOI anymore, but in there JR tells of the improvements he made to his personal 'trip to Charlevoix/Mpls plane' the improvements were substantial and expensive. He states in DOI that the improvements he made made his plane the fastest one of this kind of model in the world.

I spoke for quite some time to a man who has many friends who fly their own personal planes. To prep for a flight does not take that long. TWO hours at 10 AM, when the plane was already ready does NOT ring the bell of truth for silly me. I am a handicapped person, I and WE donut know ALL of the facts of this case, harumph, seems neither does the DA Lacy.

When he sold the plane at reduced price, per the media, it was because of their legal expenses, huh, er?

JR could have, imop, have let his pilot who ran a flight service, use JR's personal plane and gotten $$$ from that on a regular basis. JR and family were not destitute they went on to new fields of endeavor in GA after the murder and built a brand NEW and very expensive home.

Remember the story about how they wanted the GA builder to build a home with only ONE door, for security! Building codes required a home to have more than ONE DOOR! Yet they managed to leave the home unsecured in order for a man to come in and take JR's guns, which he told BPD that he did not have any guns, OOPS. I don't remember IF IF the guns were ever recovered, anyone remember?

I recently spent some considerable time with a gentleman who has many friends who fly their personal planes. Said you can file flight plan on a computer quickly or by telephone. Plus it most certainly would not take two hours to prep a plane like JR's for flight, IF it was already ready at o'dark thirty.

DA Lacy, time to travel some skipped side roads on this case, imop.

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good to see we are back on the case-no matter if I dont think the ramseys did it-its good to talk about reality and not the scam artist anymore

 

[Camper]

Well I do have an advantage over our NEW poster, in that I have been a baby, a teenager, 20 years old, 30 years old,
40 years old, 50 years old, 60 years old and seventy something.

Our new poster has never been older than right now.

I would appreciate it IF IF our NEW poster would site the post that he referred to about JAR semen on a blankie. He previously said he didn't know anything much about the case.

.

 

[newtv]

IF the plan was for the R's to leave Boulder area at o'dark thirty Dec 25, and the plane would take two hours to be readied when JR called at 10AM Dec 25th, HOW COME?

Time for DA Lacy to figure out this case. TELEPHONE RECORDS ARE NEEDED FOR DECEMBER 25 and 26th.

WE are told that JR spent hours at the airport on Christmas day. I am betting that he either called and filed a flight plan for the 26th on the 25th while he was at the airport.

I am betting that he fueled the plane on Christmas Day, IF IF IF he did there would be credit card records that HE DID.

DA Lacy needs to know WHO filed the flight plan and WHEN they filed it. A quick phone call to file the plan would not take but a few minutes.

WHY was the plane not ready at 10, and WHY was the pilot not there when JR called? The pilot returned JR's call later, WE donut know how much later after the call that the pilot returned JR's call, the DA Lacy needs to find that out.

JR sold his plane to the pilot one year later for a greatly reduced price. Story was that JR 'needed money' for legal expenses.

I don't have my DOI anymore, but in there JR tells of the improvements he made to his personal 'trip to Charlevoix/Mpls plane' the improvements were substantial and expensive. He states in DOI that the improvements he made made his plane the fastest one of this kind of model in the world.

I spoke for quite some time to a man who has many friends who fly their own personal planes. To prep for a flight does not take that long. TWO hours at 10 AM, when the plane was already ready does NOT ring the bell of truth for silly me. I am a handicapped person, I and WE donut know ALL of the facts of this case, harumph, seems neither does the DA Lacy.

When he sold the plane at reduced price, per the media, it was because of their legal expenses, huh, er?

JR could have, imop, have let his pilot who ran a flight service, use JR's personal plane and gotten $$$ from that on a regular basis. JR and family were not destitute they went on to new fields of endeavor in GA after the murder and built a brand NEW and very expensive home.

Remember the story about how they wanted the GA builder to build a home with only ONE door, for security! Building codes required a home to have more than ONE DOOR! Yet they managed to leave the home unsecured in order for a man to come in and take JR's guns, which he told BPD that he did not have any guns, OOPS. I don't remember IF IF the guns were ever recovered, anyone remember?

I recently spent some considerable time with a gentleman who has many friends who fly their personal planes. Said you can file flight plan on a computer quickly or by telephone. Plus it most certainly would not take two hours to prep a plane like JR's for flight, IF it was already ready at o'dark thirty.

DA Lacy, time to travel some skipped side roads on this case, imop.

.

obviously cuz they planned a murder the night before and knew they would need more time to clean up the fallout...lol
NOT

 

[Guy_in_Georgia]

Semen on a blanket in a suitcase? I read something here about a blanket and someone said it was his son's (john jr) semen. What is the point of bringing up this blanket with his eldest son's semen? Seems pretty trivial to me. For all we know John Jr put it in the suitcase because he got ejaculate on it and was trying to hide it.

The semen on a blanket in a suitcase found in the basment is VERY significant. The family was planning a trip out of town the morning of the 26th. I don't know about you, but our family and most of my friends always get our suitcases out and pack a few things the night before an early A.M. departure.

An intruder just happening to select that very suitcase out of many that you would think would be stored together in the basement?

Scenario:

The suitcase was one of many brought upstairs in preparation for the A.M. departure. A family member, while cleaning-up after discovering the murder put one of the incriminating pieces of evidence from the crime scene (the blanket) into one of the suitcases and brought it downstairs, perhaps planning to wash/dispose of it later. Then, a while later, after the intruder theory has been hatched, a different family member goes down into the basement and places that suitcase directly under the window to bolster an intruder theory.

The significant thing to remember about that night is that most of the suitcases may (I say may) have already been brought upstairs in preparation for the trip, and that particular suitcase was the only large one down there.

That may be the only mistake the conspirator and/or murderer made that night, one that points directly to the family.

 

[UKGuy]

The semen on a blanket in a suitcase found in the basment is VERY significant. The family was planning a trip out of town the morning of the 26th. I don't know about you, but our family and most of my friends always get our suitcases out and pack a few things the night before an early A.M. departure.

An intruder just happening to select that very suitcase out of many that you would think would be stored together in the basement?

Scenario:

The suitcase was one of many brought upstairs in preparation for the A.M. departure. A family member, while cleaning-up after discovering the murder put one of the incriminating pieces of evidence from the crime scene (the blanket) into one of the suitcases and brought it downstairs, perhaps planning to wash/dispose of it later. Then, a while later, after the intruder theory has been hatched, a different family member goes down into the basement and places that suitcase directly under the window to bolster an intruder theory.

The significant thing to remember about that night is that most of the suitcases may (I say may) have already been brought upstairs in preparation for the trip, and that particular suitcase was the only large one down there.

That may be the only mistake the conspirator and/or murderer made that night, one that points directly to the family.

Guy_in_Georgia,

I believe Steve Thomas suggests that Fleet White said he moved the suitcase and some pieces of glass?

If the blanket was that significant and intended as staging then imo JonBenet would have been wrapped in said blanket, I think the purpose of the blankets used was to avoid any transfer of forensic evidence.

From memory they were going to minimise the luggage needed and just use plastic bags, since replacement clothing could be acquired in the other state.


There was likely more than one person involved in the death of JonBenet this is suggested by the different perspectives employed in the wine-cellar staging.

Initially JonBenet is redressed as per her day-clothes complete with replacement Wednesday underwear, this was intended to mutate into her wearing the Barbie-Gown found next to her corpse.

The stagings although each portraying a homicide have different purposes and motives underlying them.


.

 

[s_finch]

I thought there were no cell phone records for the month of December...which is weird.

The problem is that DA Lacy thinks the R's are not involved, so DA Lacy isn't going to go in that direction. I think it's great that DA Lacy's butt is in a sling after this Karr fiasco.

UNBELIEVEABLE that phone records and credit card records were never obtained by the state!!!!! I already knew this but just had to say how shocking it is that these basic steps were not followed. Like others on here have said, if this had happened in a blue collar family (not that a blue collar family can afford a jet or two) their phone records and credit card receipts would have been immediately secured for possible evidence.

I would assume (someone tell me for sure) that it's WAY to late for Ma Bell to produce phone records from Dec. 96, not to mention the cell phone companies.

 

[s_finch]

When John called to make those arrangements to leave, his daughter's dead body was still laying on the floor in the house - and he didn't know WHEN it would be removed.

As it was, I don't believe her body was removed until later that evening. I guess if they hadn't stopped him, they would have all flown to Atlanta while she was still laying there.

Her body was not removed until that evening. John Meyer, the pathologist, writes in the opening of the autopsy that he didn't view the body until he arrived AT THE RAMSEY RESIDENCE at 8 pm on the evening of Dec. 26th. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jonbenet2.html I'm not sure of the exact time of the autopsy, whether it was performed that night or the next day. So yes, John was trying to leave while JBR was still on their den floor. Whether or not this points to guilt----I guess that can be viewed in a number of ways. Personally, I do believe if it was my daughter, the last thing I'd want to do is leave town, but everyone reacts differently under stress.

 

[Camper]

I visited with my 'plane' friend today. My friend told me that legally you do not have to file a flight plan IF IF you will be flying below 'Flight Level 180'. That is below an altitude of 18,000 feet sea level, so leaving Colorado you could start out flying at 12,000 feet and make altitude adjustments as you neared the east coast.

My friend also says you would consume more fuel flying at the lower altitudes because the air is more dense at the lower altitudes. So not sure where a 'pilot' would have to stop to refuel, IF IF they were avoiding anyone being able to trace their flight in the night.

All of the flight figures on abilities of JR's plane I still have tucked away in my garage somewhere after our move.

So essentially a pilot flying from GA (and leaving after a Christmas dinner with the family) coming to Colorado without
filing a flight plan, OR filing a flight plan. The pilot could be unknown to the BPD.

An experienced pilot could fly at Flight Level 180 without filing a flight plan, to go to GA and come back again as well, undetected, except the flight log would have to have been doctored with or changed to a different usage plan.

Thats why knowing about ALL of the times WHEN JR called his private pilot would make such a difference to this case. NOT word of mouth but actual telephone records.

.

 

[FactorFiction]

Question to those who have read the books...

Was the comment about the plane flying to atlanta ever elaborated on?

The reason im asking is wasn't JR's children in Atlanta for xmas? could he have been meaning that the plane needed to go pick up the family?

These are merely questions...im just asking the experts.

 

[i_dont_chat]

I was amused at the question of why you used IF IF.

ALthough I am a new poster here, I have been reading for some time. I noticed your IF IF and thought it very unique.

My assumption was that you were saying "If and that is a big IF". . . .

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Eagle1]

There was likely more than one person involved in the death of JonBenet this is suggested by the different perspectives employed in the wine-cellar staging.

The stagings although each portraying a homicide have different purposes and motives underlying them.

Good post. Wish you'd take it a bit farther, last paragraph especially. There were 2 sets of footprints, and saliva DNA that didn't belong to Karr, if he was even there, in a drop of JonBenet's blood.

I wonder if they tested Helgoth's DNA? There was apparent staging at his death scene too. There was a stun gun, boots, and I forget what all else. His acquaintance Kanady said Helgoth had been elated that fall about making some big bucks, $50 or $60,000, with another buddy, but that it fell through, and that Helgoth mentioned wondering how it would feel to bash in a human head. (Somebody else got the job?) I'm thinking Helgoth's killer is also JonBenet's killer, and that it may be one reason Karr thinks he'll be killed. An obvious reason he should fear getting killed is what he sort of confessed, and another, if he was involved, he'd know who killed Helgoth and would be out to get him too. Crazy like a fox? He's sane enough to figure these things out. Maybe he's pretending a multiple personality disorder? Not saying I really believe that, just trying to make sense of his sentence about multiple peace.

Editing to add another question, Camper's, Why wasn't the pilot ready? He couldn't already know about JonBenet, could he? The other friends too, reason they could get there so early, fully dressed, maybe in last night's clothes, all of them?

A former poster used to say maybe he'd flown JAR from and back to Atlanta, which there would have been time for, with the different time zones.

 

[lannie]

hehe what's with the "IF IF" stuff? It's like E-stuttering.

So again, did John say in his book or whatever that he was planning to fly the family to Michigan or whatever? That is what I am asking. If he said he had no plans to fly out that day (meaning he had no intention of going anywhere Dec 26th regardless of what may or may happen) then logically he wouldn't prep a plane.

So basically, what exactly did John say to have you wondering about all this? Please, inform me since I do not know.

Have some RESPECT for our Camper, she knows more about this case in her sleep than the DA mary lacy she (Camper)can studder all she wants to ,
Make sence Camper, they want to dig in to this case some more, let them dig where it will do some good, WHERE are the phone records from Dec 96 !!

 

[newtv]

I wonder if they wanted to get out of the area for protection-if a killer was lurking around they may have feared for burke..also perhaps in their mind they would take JBR to be buried..and if that couldnt happen because she was being held for examination-its possible that he just cracked a bit under stress and wanted to be out of the house and out of danger-its a possible explanation if u are not just looking for how they are evil..

 

[IrishMist]

I wonder if they wanted to get out of the area for protection-if a killer was lurking around they may have feared for burke..also perhaps in their mind they would take JBR to be buried..and if that couldnt happen because she was being held for examination-its possible that he just cracked a bit under stress and wanted to be out of the house and out of danger-its a possible explanation if u are not just looking for how they are evil..

I'm not just looking for evil, Newtv. You can check my posts- I'm a solid fence sitter. But this is one of the Ramsey actions that makes them look guilty to me.

They never acted like they were afraid for Burke. They let him sleep, then sent him off to the Whites. One, I would have woken him up, asking if he knew/heard anything during the night. Two, I would not have let him out of my sight. Not for a minute. Someone took my daughter in the night, I've blatantly disregarded the warnings in the note, and I'm gonna send my other child off to a friend's house?? I don't think so. That just doesn't make sense to me. At all. On any level.

As to the plane arrangements... I could see if it were the next morning. But approximately 20 minutes after she was found? One would have to know that the police are going to want to talk to you. As a parent, how can you leave your child dead on the floor, and be on the phone making arrangements to leave the state? I will grant that under extreme stress a person could snap. That maybe in this unbearably stressful situation, John thought he could scoop her up and take the whole family "home" to Atlanta. I'd be willing to give a little there. But at no time do I see any evidence of fear for Burke's safety, and to me, that is telling.

 

[newtv]

I'm not just looking for evil, Newtv. You can check my posts- I'm a solid fence sitter. But this is one of the Ramsey actions that makes them look guilty to me.

They never acted like they were afraid for Burke. They let him sleep, then sent him off to the Whites. One, I would have woken him up, asking if he knew/heard anything during the night. Two, I would not have let him out of my sight. Not for a minute. Someone took my daughter in the night, I've blatantly disregarded the warnings in the note, and I'm gonna send my other child off to a friend's house?? I don't think so. That just doesn't make sense to me. At all. On any level.

As to the plane arrangements... I could see if it were the next morning. But approximately 20 minutes after she was found? One would have to know that the police are going to want to talk to you. As a parent, how can you leave your child dead on the floor, and be on the phone making arrangements to leave the state? I will grant that under extreme stress a person could snap. That maybe in this unbearably stressful situation, John thought he could scoop her up and take the whole family "home" to Atlanta. I'd be willing to give a little there. But at no time do I see any evidence of fear for Burke's safety, and to me, that is telling.

your reasoning being calm and carefully thot thru makes me take notice-you make sense..I think if we had all the details maybe there wasnt a plan to leave in 20 minutes..I cant say as i dont have the details about that..but i do at least take your points to heart cuz u were reasonable in them-that goes along way with me.

 

[IrishMist]

your reasoning being calm and carefully thot thru makes me take notice-you make sense..I think if we had all the details maybe there wasnt a plan to leave in 20 minutes..I cant say as i dont have the details about that..but i do at least take your points to heart cuz u were reasonable in them-that goes along way with me.

Thank you! That's a heck of a compliment.

 

[Camper]

If you have a little pencil, with an eraser, you can erase any of my thouhgts, but you cannot erase the HUGE number of WHY's in this case.

WHY would it take two hours to prep the plane at 10AM when it was already supposed to have been ready for a 7 AM takeoff.

Telephone records would show WHENthe private pilot (I am adhering to posting rules here and NOT mentioning his name)was called or IF IF he was called to abort the flight.

Plus when JR spent hours at the Jeffco airport Christmas Day why wouldn't he have done the pre flight checks then, fueled the plane, AND then call in the flight plan by phone? OR was the flight plan done on his home computer - easily checked by BPD, but did they? WHEN was the flight plan done and WHO did IT?

These are just basic Columbo questions that I pose here, elementary checks and searches for truth. Do any of you really have a BIG problem with that?

I am a calm person as well, all of my eight children lived to adulthood and have great families. Grandchildren ranging in age from 26 and serving in the Army overseas, and the youngest to be born in February of 2007. Two 3 year olds and an 11 month old, two five year olds, I am a very very calm and loving, non evil person.

I just think and wonder a lot, about what makes people tick, and why they would consider me being evil. TRUTH can be a very scary topic for some folks.

.

.

Family get togethers include around 35 people, just my little gang. You should see how calm I am.

 

[dingo]

Camper...I just want to say that I enjoy and respect your posts....you know more about this case than the rest of us put together...blessings to you and your family...they are lucky to have you.

 

[newtv]

If you have a little pencil, with an eraser, you can erase any of my thouhgts, but you cannot erase the HUGE number of WHY's in this case.

WHY would it take two hours to prep the plane at 10AM when it was already supposed to have been ready for a 7 AM takeoff.

Telephone records would show WHENthe private pilot (I am adhering to posting rules here and NOT mentioning his name)was called or IF IF he was called to abort the flight.

Plus when JR spent hours at the Jeffco airport Christmas Day why wouldn't he have done the pre flight checks then, fueled the plane, AND then call in the flight plan by phone? OR was the flight plan done on his home computer - easily checked by BPD, but did they? WHEN was the flight plan done and WHO did IT?

These are just basic Columbo questions that I pose here, elementary checks and searches for truth. Do any of you really have a BIG problem with that?

I am a calm person as well, all of my eight children lived to adulthood and have great families. Grandchildren ranging in age from 26 and serving in the Army overseas, and the youngest to be born in February of 2007. Two 3 year olds and an 11 month old, two five year olds, I am a very very calm and loving, non evil person.

I just think and wonder a lot, about what makes people tick, and why they would consider me being evil. TRUTH can be a very scary topic for some folks.

.

.

Family get togethers include around 35 people, just my little gang. You should see how calm I am.

hey
i think u are calm
the message i left was directed at the person who wrote it-it wasnt slamming anyone else..my inference is simply that sometimes I cant find the common sense in the extreme positions..camper-in no way would I be making a comment about you..its just not where I am coming from and that goes to anyone..its that extreme guilty energy in the collective-not the particular.

 

[Eagle1]

Why the plane couldn't be ready for 2 hrs, and phone records can't be obtained is indeed an excellent question, imo. See also the thread about how garment factory assembly lines operate, odds of one pair of undies, Wed. ones, being used as a sneezing tissue that ended up in a murder.