GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #1

[Spice]

I read an article yesterday in which the author opined that the girls committing violent acts against another in the name of their slendermangod (so they can get into their god's "heaven") can be seen as an analogy to all of the horrific violence that humans have perpetrated against one another since the beginning of civilization in the name of their God/Allah/Pharoah/chosen invisible friend.

I think this a fascinating and very interesting viewpoint. Wow. Apparently they planned this for months.

 

[BigCat]

They have evil written all over their faces. It's there, just look. Their faces do not show well adjusted kids to me. They are not mentally ill, jmo They are evil, plain and simple. I hope they get the max, 60 years iirc.

There's a passage from Cormac McCarthy's No Country for Old Men that I can't keep out of my head these days:

I read in the papers here a while back some teachers came across a survey that was sent out back in the thirties to a number of schools around the country. Had this questionnaire about what was the problems with teachin in the schools. And they come across these forms, they’d been filled out and sent in from around the country answerin these questions. And the biggest problems they could name was things like talkin in class and runnin in the hallways. Chewin gum. Copyin homework. Things of that nature. So they got one of them forms that was blank and printed up a bunch of em and sent em back out to the same schools. Forty years later. Well, here come the answers back. Rape, arson, murder. Drugs. Suicide. So think about that. Because a lot of the time when I say anything about how the world is goin to hell in a handbasket people will just sort of smile and tell me I’m gettin old. That it’s one of the symptoms. But my feelin about that is that anybody that cant tell the difference between rapin and murderin people and chewin gum has got a whole lot bigger of a problem than what I’ve got. Forty years is not a long time neither. Maybe the next forty of it will bring some of em out from under the ether. If it aint too late.

That's just some masterful prose! Of course, that's not McCarthy speaking directly; it the voice of one of his characters, an old sheriff (played by Tommy Lee Jones in the movie). I don't know if McCarthy believes the above or not.

IMO, he's does not share the Post-Enlightenment optimism that we can rationally explain every act of human depravity. So you're in intellectually respectable company if you believe there may be something in this world that is irrational and completely beyond our understanding. "Evil" is as good a word that we have to call that something.

 

[inthedark14]

O/T-

ArianeEmory, is your "quote" from the Tool song Schism?
"I know the pieces fit".

Just wondering....whether it is or not, had to go listen to that song, not heard it in a long time

ETA- And "Sober" too....egads how is it I have forgotten about Tool?! Too much WS, not enough music in my life :facepalm:

O/T OMG were we BFFs in the high school?! When we got a new car it has the most wonderful invention of satellite radio, I can listen to all the kinds of music I like non stop. It's super fun, all the good channels are in the mid-30's. Yay.

I always wondered the same thing about Ariane's quote...

Also, I have a cat named Maynard :rocker:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Not addressing you personally, tlcya. But I just feel I need to compare these girls with my own daughter who:

- Has a dad who was a death-metal musician. She grew up listening to death metal in the car on family outings.

- Has a mum who was a goth metal chick. With all the trimmings. Whose hobbies include crochet, fishkeeping and researching murder cases.

- Grew up in a house where the bookcases are filled with true crime accounts of psychopaths and killers, as well as a stunning collection of horror literature.

- Was sung Ronnie Dio ballads for lullabys as an infant.

- Visited friends of the family who collected stuffed bats, kept black widows for pets and looked like Marilyn Manson on a good day.

- Has parents who have never shielded her from the truth of the world.

- Is NOT morbid. Or metal, or goth. She's just herself, and a good kid.

But if you believe the bollocky nonsense in the wowser press, she's be what? In danger of being a psycho? Tainted morally?

Give me a break.

These kids are disturbed. Quibble over psychopathy being a mental lllness or not, but it's being "not right in the head", the end. I suspect their parents might have something to do with it, even if it's just general neglect.

But don't be blaming their culture, because it's MY culture. And I raised my child *right*.

Way to go Ausgirl ... JVM has some nerve discussing the girls home life in relation to goth culture, considering her own upbringing. I can't stand it when these HLN hosts put sensationalism above common sense, it really serves no purpose.

 

[LietKynes]

I think this a fascinating and very interesting viewpoint. Wow. Apparently they planned this for months.

BBM

My gut feeling is that they are not mentally ill as in insane--( and unable to understand fantasy from reality, or right from wrong).
Disturbed , yes !

This was premeditated and evil.
Despite their ages, they need to be locked up for I don't know how long. If they'd do this to a friend who had trusted them... what will happen in the future to someone who, say, steals one of their boyfriends ?
Just thinking out loud. This is tragic on so many levels.
:moo:

 

[ArianeEmory]

O/T-

ArianeEmory, is your "quote" from the Tool song Schism?
"I know the pieces fit".

Just wondering....whether it is or not, had to go listen to that song, not heard it in a long time

ETA- And "Sober" too....egads how is it I have forgotten about Tool?! Too much WS, not enough music in my life :facepalm:

Yes--I am a huge prog rock nerd girl. It was Rush when I was a kid, Tool as a young adult, and now later in life I have discovered and love Coheed and Cambria. (Tool is still putting out great albums, and I saw them on tour in 2012.) And yeah, it's crazy how you can go for months and months with no music and then you put on some headphones and it all comes back.

(Sorry for O/T folks...)

 

[Spice]

BBM

My gut feeling is that they are not mentally ill as in insane--( and unable to understand fantasy from reality, or right from wrong).
Disturbed , yes !

This was premeditated and evil.
Despite their ages, they need to be locked up for I don't know how long. If they'd do this to a friend who had trusted them... what will happen in the future to someone who, say, steals one of their boyfriends ?
Just thinking out loud. This is tragic on so many levels.
:moo:

It's so horrible. I'm reading the "creepy pasta" site now. The comments are interesting. There are many , what appear to be young fans/posters, (some say they are 10) who seem to truly believe Slender Man is real, the comments are interesting just to get a gauge on how fans of this site view Slender Man. One girl keeps referring to Slender Man as "HE" and "HIM" all caps as some would refer to "GOD"when writing. Some swear he watches them, they have seen him in a park, he comes in their dreams. Others, make fun of them for believing its real. Very interesting.

 

[Ausgirl]

Okay, the word "evil" bothers me.

If a usually nice man goes on a cold, calculating murder rampage after sustaining a head injury (this has happened) - what's that? Evil snuck in through the crack in his head?

Where does evil come from? If we're not just being all religious about it - then where? We know a bit about how mental illness and imbalances happen, the science shows the chemistry, the lack of activity in areas of the brain. How do we quantify "evil"? How does it get it into people, and how does anyone explain that "evil" and chemical imbalance or brain damage or deficiencies might occur simultaneously. Does evil over-ride the brain issues in terms of order of causation? Or do people think the damage lets the evil in, like a neurological catflap?

How do we cure it? Is it incurable? If not then - how? I asked this earlier, no-one answered. Exorcism? Trepanning? Holy water?

And what about things are seen as "evil" in one culture, but not in another? Does it come in different flavours that way? Is there such a thing as 'universal evil'? If so, I'd like to see that clearly defined.

It bothers me, the idea of "evil". Especially when we're dealing with two little girls. That 'flat' aspect to them? That's a great big red flag for psychopathy and a few other mental disorders. But I can't tell, really, just by looking at am image. I guess spotting evil in photographs is a skill I am profoundly lacking.

I am not trying to pick on anyone, but it just.. idk. The concept of "evil" seems pretty hokey and simplistic to me. I don't think it's at all adequate a term to describe these murderous children.

But that's just my opinion eh.

 

[inthedark14]

Ok, I am ducking down and making this post.

:truce:

Everyone who reads here has their own specific reasons for being here. Some of us have been traumatized, some of us have survived horrible things. There is a reason that people post here and open with **trigger warning***. A lot of the reasons that we have to be warned about triggers is that someone in our family has hurt us.

That being said, we all have our sleuthing skills and most of us have already browsed the interwebz to find out anything and everything about whatever case we are working on. When we see something posted by say, an almost MSM source such as the Daily Mail or anything on HLN we have the heart to look beyond sensational reporting and take a good look at what we're seeing.

Personally, my user name stems from a favorite song from a horror rock band. When my nieces and nephews are born I either buy them onesies that are for a favorite football or hockey team or something most likely representing a favorite band. Their parents seem to love this and post many pictures (no matter how much I warn them about social media!) of their tiny darlings rocking out.

I never was able to embrace the goth or rockabilly culture as much as I wanted to due to my career choice. I so wanted to have black or blue or pink hair, but suits in meetings don't like that. I photograph cemeteries as a hobby, I think they are the most peaceful and beautiful places ever, even in the middle of a big city. My social media reflects that. I adore horror rock, punk rock and rockabilly, and my DH's favorite music is death metal. It got him through being horribly abused as a child, he listened to it at night with his headphones on, rocking himself to sleep to get away from his life. Going to shows and getting out of my situation helped me too, just because that choice of music or genre isn't too everyone's taste does not for a second mean that the people that listen to it or make it are bad people whose kids are going to be murderous freaks.

My friends, my lovely websleuths friends, please stop for a minute and remember what a beautiful and diverse group of people we are. Remember the reason that you came here. The reason why you clicked the link and wanted to make any small difference you could to help the people that suffer from the abuses that befall them.

I'm always going to want justice for the victims. Myself, my sister, my DH, his siblings will never have justice for what was done to us. Neither will a lot of my friends here.

Please, let's wait for the facts to come out, if there are reports on these families it will come out. I remember all too vividly the condemnation and the flak thrown at a little girl's family almost a year ago. It was because they were different from what we see day to day. Little Alanna's family didn't deserve it and neither do these people unless it's proven different, and I bet you that the media has been trying to dig crap up all day.

Ok, my big long rant is done, but please remember my friends, that just because we are different in the way we see the world and the way we live doesn't mean we are not all after the same thing. Justice for a 12 year old girl whose friends decided to murder her (and thankfully did not succeed) for whatever messed up reasons they or their lawyers can come up with.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[ArianeEmory]

To me, "evil" = magical thinking and doesn't interest me much.

I get that some people use it as shorthand for "a bad person" without assigning mystical importance to it, but I don't think it's even useful shorthand, as it implies there's no point in investigating further--they're just "evil". It's a way of wrapping bad stuff up in a tidy package so you can mentally dispose of it. If the Parker-Hulme murders happened today, some people on WS would call those girls evil, but we know they went on to serve (short) sentences, married and led productive lives (and religious ones, if you use that as a metric), and did not offend further.

 

[LietKynes]

Insightful post, Ausgirl.
When I think of "evil"... I think of someone who knows right from wrong and chooses wrong. With "wrong" being any act that harms another person.
Esp. in this case.

" The concept of "evil" seems pretty hokey and simplistic to me."
RSBM

Maybe we cannot ever understand these girls because we did not think like that at 12 years of age ---- and still don't think like they did ?
I find it hard to believe that they will be fine to release at 18 yrs. or sooner.
MOO

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I dare to suggest that more people have been killed in the name of God, than because of any kind of devotion to goth culture .. and .. Is it just me, but I miss the old goths that used to get about in Victorian garb in the late 80's .. anyway, back to topic .. to even suggest that the goth subculture has anything to with a couple of kids who are clearly disturbed is just prejudicial BS ..

 

[Nymeria]

Ok, I am ducking down and making this post.

:truce:

Everyone who reads here has their own specific reasons for being here. Some of us have been traumatized, some of us have survived horrible things. There is a reason that people post here and open with **trigger warning***. A lot of the reasons that we have to be warned about triggers is that someone in our family has hurt us.

That being said, we all have our sleuthing skills and most of us have already browsed the interwebz to find out anything and everything about whatever case we are working on. When we see something posted by say, an almost MSM source such as the Daily Mail or anything on HLN we have the heart to look beyond sensational reporting and take a good look at what we're seeing.

Personally, my user name stems from a favorite song from a horror rock band. When my nieces and nephews are born I either buy them onesies that are for a favorite football or hockey team or something most likely representing a favorite band. Their parents seem to love this and post many pictures (no matter how much I warn them about social media!) of their tiny darlings rocking out.

I never was able to embrace the goth or rockabilly culture as much as I wanted to due to my career choice. I so wanted to have black or blue or pink hair, but suits in meetings don't like that. I photograph cemeteries as a hobby, I think they are the most peaceful and beautiful places ever, even in the middle of a big city. My social media reflects that. I adore horror rock, punk rock and rockabilly, and my DH's favorite music is death metal. It got him through being horribly abused as a child, he listened to it at night with his headphones on, rocking himself to sleep to get away from his life. Going to shows and getting out of my situation helped me too, just because that choice of music or genre isn't too everyone's taste does not for a second mean that the people that listen to it or make it are bad people whose kids are going to be murderous freaks.

My friends, my lovely websleuths friends, please stop for a minute and remember what a beautiful and diverse group of people we are. Remember the reason that you came here. The reason why you clicked the link and wanted to make any small difference you could to help the people that suffer from the abuses that befall them.

I'm always going to want justice for the victims. Myself, my sister, my DH, his siblings will never have justice for what was done to us. Neither will a lot of my friends here.

Please, let's wait for the facts to come out, if there are reports on these families it will come out. I remember all too vividly the condemnation and the flak thrown at a little girl's family almost a year ago. It was because they were different from what we see day to day. Little Alanna's family didn't deserve it and neither do these people unless it's proven different, and I bet you that the media has been trying to dig crap up all day.

Ok, my big long rant is done, but please remember my friends, that just because we are different in the way we see the world and the way we live doesn't mean we are not all after the same thing. Justice for a 12 year old girl whose friends decided to murder her (and thankfully did not succeed) for whatever messed up reasons they or their lawyers can come up with.

ALWAYS MOO

O/T
*BBM*
The Birthday Massacre?

 

[JeannaT]

Ok, I am ducking down and making this post.

:truce:

Everyone who reads here has their own specific reasons for being here. Some of us have been traumatized, some of us have survived horrible things. There is a reason that people post here and open with **trigger warning***. A lot of the reasons that we have to be warned about triggers is that someone in our family has hurt us.

That being said, we all have our sleuthing skills and most of us have already browsed the interwebz to find out anything and everything about whatever case we are working on. When we see something posted by say, an almost MSM source such as the Daily Mail or anything on HLN we have the heart to look beyond sensational reporting and take a good look at what we're seeing.

Personally, my user name stems from a favorite song from a horror rock band. When my nieces and nephews are born I either buy them onesies that are for a favorite football or hockey team or something most likely representing a favorite band. Their parents seem to love this and post many pictures (no matter how much I warn them about social media!) of their tiny darlings rocking out.

I never was able to embrace the goth or rockabilly culture as much as I wanted to due to my career choice. I so wanted to have black or blue or pink hair, but suits in meetings don't like that. I photograph cemeteries as a hobby, I think they are the most peaceful and beautiful places ever, even in the middle of a big city. My social media reflects that. I adore horror rock, punk rock and rockabilly, and my DH's favorite music is death metal. It got him through being horribly abused as a child, he listened to it at night with his headphones on, rocking himself to sleep to get away from his life. Going to shows and getting out of my situation helped me too, just because that choice of music or genre isn't too everyone's taste does not for a second mean that the people that listen to it or make it are bad people whose kids are going to be murderous freaks.

My friends, my lovely websleuths friends, please stop for a minute and remember what a beautiful and diverse group of people we are. Remember the reason that you came here. The reason why you clicked the link and wanted to make any small difference you could to help the people that suffer from the abuses that befall them.

I'm always going to want justice for the victims. Myself, my sister, my DH, his siblings will never have justice for what was done to us. Neither will a lot of my friends here.

Please, let's wait for the facts to come out, if there are reports on these families it will come out. I remember all too vividly the condemnation and the flak thrown at a little girl's family almost a year ago. It was because they were different from what we see day to day. Little Alanna's family didn't deserve it and neither do these people unless it's proven different, and I bet you that the media has been trying to dig crap up all day.

Ok, my big long rant is done, but please remember my friends, that just because we are different in the way we see the world and the way we live doesn't mean we are not all after the same thing. Justice for a 12 year old girl whose friends decided to murder her (and thankfully did not succeed) for whatever messed up reasons they or their lawyers can come up with.

ALWAYS MOO

Interesting read.

I came here because I like brain puzzles. When I read a current event of a missing person, or a murder, I'm very very good at guessing the outcome. I think there are a lot of us here with that same bent.

There are others, who read through these stories and post things like I cried all night, I can't take this anymore, when will this end, what is the world coming to, I can't stand reading any more stories like this, etc.

There are others, like me, who jump right in and solve the case to the best of our ability because we've read hundreds of them and can often solve them better than tiny municipalities who sometimes get big mysteries to solve and can't figure out immediately, like we at websleuths can, who the likely perp is or what the likely outcome of the case will be. It's like real live Clue game.

Anyway, interesting thoughts.

 

[Spice]

I dare to suggest that more people have been killed in the name of God, than because of any kind of devotion to goth culture .. and .. Is it just me, but I miss the old goths that used to get about in Victorian garb in the late 80's .. anyway, back to topic .. to even suggest that the goth subculture has anything to with a couple of kids who are clearly disturbed is just prejudicial BS ..

I agree with every one of your points. We always do this. First it was the "Satanic Cult" witch hunts during the 80's. It's been Ozzy Osbourne. Marliyn Manson. Black Sabbath. Rock Music, Death Metal, Goth and of course simply "Evil." It drives me crazy as I don't see how it is productive in understanding anything. Prejudicial and oversimplified scapegoating at its best. The media is the worst.

 

[blue22]

Okay, the word "evil" bothers me.

If a usually nice man goes on a cold, calculating murder rampage after sustaining a head injury (this has happened) - what's that? Evil snuck in through the crack in his head?

Where does evil come from? If we're not just being all religious about it - then where? We know a bit about how mental illness and imbalances happen, the science shows the chemistry, the lack of activity in areas of the brain. How do we quantify "evil"? How does it get it into people, and how does anyone explain that "evil" and chemical imbalance or brain damage or deficiencies might occur simultaneously. Does evil over-ride the brain issues in terms of order of causation? Or do people think the damage lets the evil in, like a neurological catflap?

How do we cure it? Is it incurable? If not then - how? I asked this earlier, no-one answered. Exorcism? Trepanning? Holy water?

And what about things are seen as "evil" in one culture, but not in another? Does it come in different flavours that way? Is there such a thing as 'universal evil'? If so, I'd like to see that clearly defined.

It bothers me, the idea of "evil". Especially when we're dealing with two little girls. That 'flat' aspect to them? That's a great big red flag for psychopathy and a few other mental disorders. But I can't tell, really, just by looking at am image. I guess spotting evil in photographs is a skill I am profoundly lacking.

I am not trying to pick on anyone, but it just.. idk. The concept of "evil" seems pretty hokey and simplistic to me. I don't think it's at all adequate a term to describe these murderous children.

But that's just my opinion eh.

I think people who kill, because they enjoy killing are evil. If these girls killed, because they wanted to know what it feels like...yes, I find that evil. Children or adult, age doesn't matter to me. Motive does.

Since we don't know that, I have no idea what to call them. I don't think it can be argued that they are clearly disturbed, no matter how you feel about the term "evil."

 

[ArianeEmory]

Inthedark, I just caught that you mentioned Alanna. Like Jeanna T just posted, I'm usually more one to come at these cases from an intellectual than an emotional standpoint, but the sheer bile that came out against Alanna's family--especially late at night when the mods were out--made me very, very distressed. Especially because, at the time, I had no way of knowing for sure that my instincts about them were right, just that it made no sense that a non-traditional marriage equals "and therefore they killed their child".

 

[Spice]

Inthedark, I just caught that you mentioned Alanna. Like Jeanna T just posted, I'm usually more one to come at these cases from an intellectual than an emotional standpoint, but the sheer bile that came out against Alanna's family--especially late at night when the mods were out--made me very, very distressed. Especially because, at the time, I had no way of knowing for sure that my instincts about them were right, just that it made no sense that a non-traditional marriage equals "and therefore they killed their child".

Ausgirl,

What case was this? I would like to read about it. Thank you!

 

[ArianeEmory]

Ausgirl,

What case was this? I would like to read about it. Thank you!

Wrong "A" (*grin*) but it was Alanna Gallagher, a child murdered by a teenage neighbor. Her parents were a polyamorous triad who seemingly want to church, participated in Renaissance faires and mostly minded their own business.

 

[Nymeria]

Inthedark, I just caught that you mentioned Alanna. Like Jeanna T just posted, I'm usually more one to come at these cases from an intellectual than an emotional standpoint, but the sheer bile that came out against Alanna's family--especially late at night when the mods were out--made me very, very distressed. Especially because, at the time, I had no way of knowing for sure that my instincts about them were right, just that it made no sense that a non-traditional marriage equals "and therefore they killed their child".

Is it OK to ask who Alanna is?

ETA- Never mind, I think I figured it out. Alanna Gallagher, yes?