GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #1

[Mrs G Norris]

I agree with every one of your points. We always do this. First it was the "Satanic Cult" witch hunts during the 80's. It's been Ozzy Osbourne. Marliyn Manson. Black Sabbath. Rock Music, Death Metal, Goth and of course simply "Evil." It drives me crazy as I don't see how it is productive in understanding anything. Prejudicial and oversimplified scapegoating at its best. The media is the worst.

I always get the impression that HLN is trying to whip up some kind of community outrage, I'm not sure what they want people to do with that .. storm the prisons, go around beating up on whoever falls into whatever stereotype they have scapegoated for the week? I also find it insulting to the intelligence of their viewers, do people really need to be screeched at to be upset about a young kid being stabbed by two other kids she thought were her friends? It just seems like such a waste of resources when an intelligent discussion about crime in society might be of real interest to people. No wonder they advertise so much anxiety medication during the ad breaks, after 5 mins of JVM I'm feeling a bit angsty myself.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Is it OK to ask who Alanna is?

I think my post with an answer went in right above yours. (I think this kind of question is always okay--some of us get so entrenched in cases that we find ourselves on a first-name basis with the victims, and Alanna got me pretty bad.)

 

[ArianeEmory]

I always get the impression that HLN is trying to whip up some kind of community outrage, I'm not sure what they want people to do with that .. storm the prisons, go around beating up on whoever falls into whatever stereotype they have scapegoated for the week? I also find it insulting to the intelligence of their viewers, do people really need to be screeched at to be upset about a young kid being stabbed by two other kids she thought were her friends? It just seems like such a waste of resources when an intelligent discussion about crime in society might be of real interest to people. No wonder they advertise so much anxiety medication during the ad breaks, after 5 mins of JVM I'm feeling a bit angsty myself.

I heard you guys mention this "JVM" so much, so when I briefly had cable earlier in the year I checked her out. [modsnip]

 

[blue22]

Inthedark, I just caught that you mentioned Alanna. Like Jeanna T just posted, I'm usually more one to come at these cases from an intellectual than an emotional standpoint, but the sheer bile that came out against Alanna's family--especially late at night when the mods were out--made me very, very distressed. Especially because, at the time, I had no way of knowing for sure that my instincts about them were right, just that it made no sense that a non-traditional marriage equals "and therefore they killed their child".

That case was local to me. (At the time.) the community mostly thought the family did it, as well. Very few rallied behind them. You would be surprised how few thought that, because of their relationship status. It was more the fact that her body was found before she was reported missing, and other reasons. The internet went nuts with their relationship situation, but locally people didn't really care about it. I think these things just go rampant online. The internet kind of makes things go wild. But yes, it was ugly.

I think of her so often.

 

[Spice]

Wrong "A" (*grin*) but it was Alanna Gallagher, a child murdered by a teenage neighbor. Her parents were a polyamorous triad who seemingly want to church, participated in Renaissance faires and mostly minded their own business.

I'm sorry ArianeEmory:facepalm:...my bad. I'll look it up. Thank you.

 

[Ausgirl]

Inthedark14, just -- thanks. For that gorgeous, heartfelt post. I'm going to save it and read it when I get kneejerky about people.

Insightful post, Ausgirl.
When I think of "evil"... I think of someone who knows right from wrong and chooses wrong. With "wrong" being any act that harms another person.
Esp. in this case.

" The concept of "evil" seems pretty hokey and simplistic to me."
RSBM

Maybe we cannot ever understand these girls because we did not think like that at 12 years of age ---- and still don't think like they did ?
I find it hard to believe that they will be fine to release at 18 yrs. or sooner.
MOO

Yeah, me too. I think it'll take a lot longer than that to fix whatever's messed them up and make them safe to be around people again. If they actually can be 'fixed'. I agree, we might never understand them fully. But I hope they can be released and live lives from that point free of violence, for their own and everyone's sake.

Mrs G...

Is it just me, but I miss the old goths that used to get about in Victorian garb in the late 80's

Who you callin' old? XD

That was totes me. (though early 90's was my hardcore goth era) I had corsets. Real Victorian-era velvet bodices... I wore a *fascinator* to the supermarket. How silly.

I miss those clothes.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Oh you did? How brilliant! I wore nothing but vintage the whole time I was in art school, I wouldn't have called myself goth .. more a love of everything from the 50's and before ..

 

[Ausgirl]

I never had the right figure for vintage, not properly, to my eternal chagrin because it's such a gorgeous look and the clothes!!! omg. But hourglass corsets and long skirts? oh yeah. I rocked the 1800's.

Sorry, OT. <3

 

[CHERIE.T]

I think people who kill, because they enjoy killing are evil. If these girls killed, because they wanted to know what it feels like...yes, I find that evil. Children or adult, age doesn't matter to me. Motive does.

Since we don't know that, I have no idea what to call them. I don't think it can be argued that they are clearly disturbed, no matter how you feel about the term "evil."

Funny how we all think of words and their meaning so differently.
2 twelve yr old girls who planned on killing a friend for 6 months......then tried out their plan IMOO
are the epitome of evil.

 

[Spice]

I always get the impression that HLN is trying to whip up some kind of community outrage, I'm not sure what they want people to do with that .. storm the prisons, go around beating up on whoever falls into whatever stereotype they have scapegoated for the week? I also find it insulting to the intelligence of their viewers, do people really need to be screeched at to be upset about a young kid being stabbed by two other kids she thought were her friends? It just seems like such a waste of resources when an intelligent discussion about crime in society might be of real interest to people. No wonder they advertise so much anxiety medication during the ad breaks, after 5 mins of JVM I'm feeling a bit angsty myself.

I often ponder the effect on society if we did not have the media that we have. If the media actually reported, informed, and fact checked as it is supposed to, if it left out bias, if it operated as the watchdog that it used to be and should be. If it actually INFORMED us with research instead of screaming at us and framing every event with sensational trash 24 hours a day seven days a week.

It's ridiculous and has real consequences. I can't watch JVM. She is just awful and the epitome of what is wrong with it all. I saw her shoot down a guest that was actually trying to add to the conversation in an intellectual way. She cut her off and berated her before she even had a chance to add her perspective and of course this guest was one of the only sane one on her panel that night. I mean they let that awful bounty hunter, Padilla, from the Casey Anthony case speak as an expert on a daily basis.

He was about as bright as a blackout and a total vulture circling and circling. Gross.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Inthedark14, just -- thanks. For that gorgeous, heartfelt post. I'm going to save it and read it when I get kneejerky about people.



Yeah, me too. I think it'll take a lot longer than that to fix whatever's messed them up and make them safe to be around people again. If they actually can be 'fixed'. I agree, we might never understand them fully. But I hope they can be released and live lives from that point free of violence, for their own and everyone's sake.

Mrs G...


Who you callin' old? XD

That was totes me. (though early 90's was my hardcore goth era) I had corsets. Real Victorian-era velvet bodices... I wore a *fascinator* to the supermarket. How silly.

I miss those clothes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Can 12 year old PREMEDITATED ATTEMPTED MURDERERS be fixed?bbm

 

[momrids6]

From what I gathered, those of you who have kids this age and know about Slenderman, they realize it is a fictional character and accept it as being just that. Normal. I wonder why these 2 girls took it so far as to believe it was real and they had to act on it. Why did they get so absorbed in make believe or fantasy? An escape? Independent of each other, would these girls have acted on it? What made them think that this was ok or acceptable behavior? Most 12 year olds know right from wrong. How did they not know murder is not entertainment?

The ripple effect from their senseless act is going to have far reaching ramifications. My heart goes out to their victim and her family. I hope they get the help they are going to need. The families of these two girls are going to need help as well as the classmates of these girls. This is just awful. JMV

Funny how we all think of words and their meaning so differently.
2 twelve yr old girls who planned on killing a friend for 6 months......then tried out their plan IMOO
are the epitome of evil.

My 15 & 16 yr old sons- both, when asked about this, feel the girls are lying about the "why"- and one definitely has power over the other. 16 yr old feels these 2 are very similiar to the 2 who killed Skyler, except they tried to come up with a "better excuse", and their respective IQ's are higher. Their interpretations are based on the transcript of what the girls' told LE- and what they know about Slenderman.

I think they may be like those 2, or the girl who killed that younger child
"to see what it felt like"....

ETA: (both also are reading over my shoulder!) I am commanded to add that their excuse seems believable/makes perfect sense to them (the girls) due to their age, and they think folks will buy it- not realizing it makes no sense to most everyone else.

 

[blue22]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Can 12 year old PREMEDITATED ATTEMPTED MURDERERS be fixed?

I don't personally think so, and if they can it's literally a very rare occurrence. So rare, that we will always point to the one or two cases in which it happened.

I don't think professionals will ever come to a consensus on that, though. It's been debated and considered and no one really agrees.

 

[tlcya]

HLN is the lowest of scandalicious crimtainment coverage of anything and everything they think will make for good soundbites while the shrews scream and whip up outrage from people who do not even follow cases save for that station's coverage.

As a result you end up with ill informed well-meaning folk all riled up with nowhere to put it.

Sorry for rant MOO

I don't normally watch unless they are covering a case I literally happen to be reading at the time they come on.

But they do have a large demographic they appeal to which means they affect jury pools to some degree, which worries me.

Having flashbacks to the endless 24/7 coverage of the "totmom" whose name I refuse to speak or type. So much misinformation.

But is very popular with some viewers which concerns me because when all the viewers' info comes from screamed and repetitive soundbites that are not even accurate you have to be worried about whether these folks are comprising juries.

sorry ETA forgot to put IMO JMO MOO :cow: etc.

 

[inthedark14]

O/T
*BBM*
The Birthday Massacre?

O/T
No. But they are fabulous. More local to me.



Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

 

[Nymeria]

I often ponder the effect on society if we did not have the media that we have. If the media actually reported, informed, and fact checked as it is supposed to, if it left out bias, if it operated as the watchdog that it used to be and should be. If it actually INFORMED us with research instead of screaming at us and framing every event with sensational trash 24 hours a day seven days a week.

It's ridiculous and has real consequences. I can't watch JVM. She is just awful and the epitome of what is wrong with it all. I saw her shoot down a guest that was actually trying to add to the conversation in an intellectual way. She cut her off and berated her before she even had a chance to add her perspective and of course this guest was one of the only sane one on her panel that night. I mean they let that awful bounty hunter, Padilla, from the Casey Anthony case speak as an expert on a daily basis.

He was about as bright as a blackout and a total vulture circling and circling. Gross.

Unfortunately there is a large segment of the population that lives by this kind of news. If it is not sensational and screaming at them I think it goes over their heads. My gawds have you ever listened to some of the people who call in to those shows? I remember some from watching NG during the Arias trial, the only time I ever really watched HLN. It kind of makes you lose faith in humanity :facepalm:

But since that seems to bring in the ratings, that is the programming we get the most of :sigh:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

My 15 & 16 yr old sons- both, when asked about this, feel the girls are lying about the "why"- and one definitely has power over the other. 16 yr old feels these 2 are very similiar to the 2 who killed Skyler, except they tried to come up with a "better excuse", and their respective IQ's are higher. Their interpretations are based on the transcript of what the girls' told LE- and what they know about Slenderman.

I think they may be like those 2, or the girl who killed that younger child
"to see what it felt like"....

ETA: (both also are reading over my shoulder!) I am commanded to add that their excuse seems believable/makes perfect sense to them (the girls) due to their age, and they think folks will buy it- not realizing it makes no sense to most everyone else.

Yeah I agree, the girls know the whole Slenderman thing is a fantasy .. sure they may have had that fantasy in mind when they did the stabbing, but I very much doubt they actually believe it .. sometimes it is fun to blur the lines between fantasy and reality especially when you are a kid, but planning the event 6 months in advance tends to ruin the illusion somewhat, and kids know that too, fantasy games work better when spontaneous .. So I agree, I think the reason they wanted to do this is something else, perhaps they just wanted to see what it 'felt like' and they thought this girl was an easy target, or they had some kind of hostility toward her. Either way they show a complete lack of empathy which points towards what Dr Stone calls 'Callous-unemotional youths'.

Young people tend to have poorer "braking systems" than people older than 20, (which could explain the ubiquity of Facebook amongst teenagers?) but there are some children who develop with no sense of empathy or compassion for others&#8212;a group which Stone calls "callous-unemotional youths." These children will almost invariably become psychopaths.

http://bigthink.com/the-voice-of-big-think/michael-stone-explains-his-scale-of-evil

Callous and unemotional traits - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Nymeria]

O/T
No. But they are fabulous. More local to me.



Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

Ahh ok. Was just trying to :detective: what band it might be.

Guess I am not ready for my WS super sleuth badge just yet! :blushing: :giggle:

 

[inthedark14]

I think my post with an answer went in right above yours. (I think this kind of question is always okay--some of us get so entrenched in cases that we find ourselves on a first-name basis with the victims, and Alanna got me pretty bad.)

:heartbeat:

I SO know what you're saying. Also, sorry for not being more specific. I don't know how to link her thread from a mobile device.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[CHERIE.T]

When two 12 year olds truly believe that a fictional boogeyman is real, there are obviously some mental health issues happening upstairs. It is likely true that the parents could have done more...but 12 year best friends are real good at keeping things secret. It's been many moons since I was 12 but I haven't forgotten all the stuff my best friend and I did back then that our parents had no clue about, and we both grew up in solid middle class homes with stay at home moms!

I read an article yesterday in which the author opined that the girls committing violent acts against another in the name of their slendermangod (so they can get into their god's "heaven") can be seen as an analogy to all of the horrific violence that humans have perpetrated against one another since the beginning of civilization in the name of their God/Allah/Pharoah/chosen invisible friend.

I think if Andrea Yates was legally insane when she killed her babies, these two children might very well be as well. They certainly don't need to be locked away for 40 years in prison. Just my opinions. No offense intended to anyone here.

Andrea Yates was legally insane due to postpartum psychosis.

If these 2 kids are insane ....this didn't just happen the day they tried to kill another child.