GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #1

[blue22]

I didn't limit it to America. But I am speaking of America. Look up statistics of violence , especially gun violence, in comparison to other Countries. You will be flabbergasted. Numbers do not lie. Quantitative data does not lie. It is what it is.

We have more guns. More access to guns. More manufacturers, less laws, more freedoms to them. I am not flabbergasted by the numbers. I expect the numbers to be as they are. I'm not shocked that somewhere that makes it difficult to get guns and guns aren't a part of their defense stance, has less gun violence.

It makes sense that we have the statistics we do. Not that it isn't cringe worthy, but I don't find it particularly shocking.

 

[MyBelle]

I wouldn't limit the culture of violence to America. It's a worldwide culture. Americans put way to much blame on their shoulders. It's on all of us.

Violence is NOT an accepted part of American culture anywhere in the United States. Every state has laws against violence. Any place where violence IS accepted as being inevitable such as those who know the identity of a perp but won't tell law enforcement, such acceptance makes violence worse, not better. Ditto in cases of domestic violence. America has a zero tolerance for violence against children.

JMO

 

[blue22]

Violence is NOT an accepted part of American culture anywhere in the United States. Every state has laws against violence. Any place where violence IS accepted as being inevitable such as those who know the identity of a perp but won't tell law enforcement, such acceptance makes violence worse, not better. Ditto in cases of domestic violence. America has a zero tolerance for violence against children.

JMO

I think that violence is glorified, like nowhere else on earth. That really has nothing to do with laws. Laws are put in place as a response to culture. We have a violent culture, we need laws against it.

 

[Spice]

Not trying to challenge you but
Do you have links?

I would think it impossible to get accurate and honest world wide stats regarding violence.

That's okay, I like to consult sources as well. This is based on an unbiased study that was conducted due to our very divided arguments on either side of the gun violence debate. If you scroll down, there will be a chart with statistics.

The United States has more guns and gun deaths than any other developed country in the world, researchers found.

A study by two New York City cardiologists found that the U.S. has 88 guns per 100 people and 10 gun-related deaths per 100,000 people — more than any of the other 27 developed countries they studied.

Also, I am not trying at all to turn this into a gun control debate, I am speaking to the marked violence in American culture and I do believe that we glorify it and have an unhealthy, almost fetish, with guns.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/...un-deaths-than-any-other-country-study-finds/

 

[blue22]

That's okay, I like to consult sources as well. This is based on an unbiased study that was conducted due to our very divided arguments on either side of the gun violence debate. If you scroll down, there will be a chart with statistics.



Also, I am not trying at all to turn this into a gun control debate, I am speaking to the marked violence in American culture.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/...un-deaths-than-any-other-country-study-finds/

Wouldn't you say that it makes sense for a country to have more gun deaths, when it has more guns?

I agree with the points you are making. I just think it's important not to get hung up on guns. We have a culture that psychologically accepts and glorifies violence. Guns are a byproduct of that, and I don't think the main cause. (I'm not defending guns or trying to start that debate, I promise. lol!)

 

[bt208]

Also, I am not trying at all to turn this into a gun control debate, I am speaking to the marked violence in American culture and I do believe that we glorify it and have an unhealthy, almost fetish, with guns.

LOL, I know. I'm really anxious to hear more developments in this case, so we can get back on topic!

aaaaahhhh, this case fascinates me.

 

[Spice]

Wouldn't you say that it makes sense for a country to have more gun deaths, when it has more guns?

I agree with the points you are making. I just think it's important not to get hung up on guns. We have a culture that psychologically accepts and glorifies violence. Guns are a byproduct of that, and I don't think the main cause. (I'm not defending guns or trying to start that debate, I promise. lol!)

I'm not sure that its simply more guns, more violence. Its definitely a factor, but the fact that we even have more guns speaks to the sort of glorification of violence to begin with.

And you are right, I don't want to get hung up on guns, it just kind of led there. But I do really think that our culture glorifies violence and violence is a very intrinsic part of our culture. I know people don't like to hear that but it is true and its not just solely centered around guns. That is only part of it.

 

[Ausgirl]

Some info on the idea of 'proxies':

Proxies are entities or people who are under the influence or control of Slender Man (or the same force that influences Slender Man), and act based on its wants/needs- hence, Proxies serve as an in-between- a proxy- for Slender Man.

It is suspected that Proxies do the actual, physical work for Slender Man, such as creating and manipulating objects, destroying and leaving evidence, creating videos and responding on Twitter, and influencing victims as needed.

Proxies most likely got their start from early Slenderman works' usage of mental influence of Slenderman. Early creepypasta indicated that Slenderman was able to telepathically communicate or influence his victims or those he wished to do his bidding. The most common early evidence for this was the usage of telepathic communication to speak to children who he would lead outdoors and then into the forest. He also used the telepathy to control his victims without their knowing and bring them into his domain. Several stories in particular focus on the strength and usage of this power. The idea behind proxies may be derived from the idea that he could not only influence his victims, but also influence individuals to do as he wishes to get to his victims.


http://theslenderman.wikia.com/wiki/Proxy

It's pretty much everything the girls were going on about.

The whole Slenderman mythos is actually incredibly creative and multi-media, a bit like HP Lovecraft's comparatively stodgy Cthulhu mythos (this was MY fandom, I adore that stuff) .,,but on amphetamines.

I have real trouble seeing 12 yo's not -knowing- this isn't real.

But I have no trouble seeing that they might not want to know, or acknowledge, that it's fiction.

I can also see it as a terrible area of the net for kids with mental issues to hang out in.

 

[JeannaT]

I keep thinking back to the relationship between the two girls. One was clearly the leader, and the other the follower. I think this will be borne out by the victim's story corroborating the confessions.

I don't think either of them, either the leader or the follower, would have done this without the other. And usually, the follower in schemes either doesn't show up or walks off before the event happens, and then it fizzles. I don't think the follower ever intended to go through with this - just kind of wanted to keep the fantasy thing going.

 

[blue22]

I'm not sure that its simply more guns, more violence. Its definitely a factor, but the fact that we even have more guns speaks to the sort of glorification of violence to begin with.

And you are right, I don't want to get hung up on guns, it just kind of led there. But I do really think that our culture glorifies violence and violence is a very intrinsic part of our culture. I know people don't like to hear that but it is true and its not just solely centered around guns. That is only part of it.

I definitely don't think it's that simple, either. However, I do think a country with more guns will inherently have more violence than a country with far less. Not because more guns = more violence, but because countries with less guns...typically are not a culture that is so violence centric.

 

[Spice]

Another short but sweet but good one:

But American violence doesn’t just come from the assault weapons we buy and the gun shows we frequent. It’s much deeper than that.

This country also supplies most of the world’s violent entertainment. America leads the world in massacres in life, and in film too. Read I.M.F.D.B. for a harrowing catalogue. The most popular movie this week, “Skyfall,” is a load of fun; but every emotional climax involves a shooting, sometimes with small guns sometimes with large ones. Firearms have long been identified with masculinity in popular culture. Ever more they are identified with femininity, too. The most popular video game this week is “Halo 4;” the most popular novel is Tom Clancy’s “Threat Vector;” the second- and third-best-selling works of nonfiction are “Killing Kennedy” and “Killing Lincoln,” respectively. Every author, and every creator, should have the right to make what they want. We need to change the way we think about the Second Amendment, not the First. Still, every civilian has a right to choose what to see and what to buy.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/12/americas-culture-of-violence.html

 

[MyBelle]

Parents can do this, in a limited sense. They can mostly monitor what's in their home. Think about it. The average American 12 year old spends more time out of the home, than in. You can't monitor the world around them.

Were these girls watching the Internet on the street curb?

Where exactly does a 12-year-old go that can't be monitored by either parents or school that isn't supervised or can't be monitored? My kids never went anywhere unsupervised at that age. One got shoplifting. Never did it again and neither did her siblings even try it.

JMO

 

[blue22]

I keep thinking back to the relationship between the two girls. One was clearly the leader, and the other the follower. I think this will be borne out by the victim's story corroborating the confessions.

I don't think either of them, either the leader or the follower, would have done this without the other. And usually, the follower in schemes either doesn't show up or walks off before the event happens, and then it fizzles. I don't think the follower ever intended to go through with this - just kind of wanted to keep the fantasy thing going.

I think leaders usually will commit violence without a follower, I just think it will look different. I think the leader in Columbine would have still been violent, I just don't think it would have looked the same. I think leaders often need someone to be a part of their game. They need others in their plot. The leader would probably be violent in some sense, but I wonder if it would be more reactive...rather than this twisted plot.

Incidentally, I've noticed in a lot of these pair murders...leaders also need someone to blame, or at least to minimize themselves.

 

[Nasteria]

it is even worse than that.

When the victim began moving toward the street to get away from them Weir became nervous that the victim would be seen and discovered as she was covered in blood , "stumbling, and could not see or walk."

Weir became concerned that the victim would be seen, so she told the victim to "lay down, you'll lose blood more slowly" and then left her there. The victim did so. When the police asked Weir why she told her to to lay down and then left, Weir stated : So that she would die, I hoped that she would die. (paraphrase)

The victim then managed to crawl to the roadside after the other two took off to find Slender Man's mansion which was miraculously somehow in their home state.

This just lacks any and all compassion and empathy. It's so disturbing and so horrible.

There are no words.

 

[Ausgirl]

I keep thinking back to the relationship between the two girls. One was clearly the leader, and the other the follower. I think this will be borne out by the victim's story corroborating the confessions.

I don't think either of them, either the leader or the follower, would have done this without the other. And usually, the follower in schemes either doesn't show up or walks off before the event happens, and then it fizzles. I don't think the follower ever intended to go through with this - just kind of wanted to keep the fantasy thing going.

This has been where my thinking has been headed for a while now. I seriously doubt they'd have acted alone.

I think it's this exact kind of relationship the forensic psych's were talking about.

I'm still pondering on what the follower gets out of their role, other than a feeling of being valued and necessary. On pain meds, heh, so conclusions might a long time coming.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Parents can do this, in a limited sense. They can mostly monitor what's in their home. Think about it. The average American 12 year old spends more time out of the home, than in. You can't monitor the world around them.

That is not true. A lot of kids come home and are glued to their devices. They come home and jump right on line.

There are less and less 12 yr olds out playing anymore.. Just look around.

 

[blue22]

Were these girls watching the Internet on the street curb?

Where exactly does a 12-year-old go that can't be monitored by either parents or school that isn't supervised or can't be monitored? My kids never went anywhere unsupervised at that age. One got shoplifting. Never did it again and neither did her siblings even try it.

JMO

Uh yeah, of course they can view the internet on the street curb. Smart phones, tablets, friends houses. You can use the internet most of the day and never use it at home. They did have school issued tablets, as well. Think about how little a single teacher can actually monitor a single student.

 

[blue22]

That is not true. A lot of kids come home and are glued to their devices. They come home and jump right on line.

There are less and less 12 yr olds out playing anymore.. Just look around.

I agree, but we don't know yet if that is the case here.

 

[LinasK]

Were these girls watching the Internet on the street curb?

Where exactly does a 12-year-old go that can't be monitored by either parents or school that isn't supervised or can't be monitored? My kids never went anywhere unsupervised at that age. One got shoplifting. Never did it again and neither did her siblings even try it.

JMO

They get internet access in schools, and on their phones, and friend's houses. When we got my daughter an Iphone last year, I didn't know how bad Instagram was, I try to monitor it when I can, but she keeps her phone with her at school, or hides it, or password protects it, so I can't get on. She's gotten access online to books I didn't want her exposed to yet, like the Hunger Games, or her friends will lend her. Kids will find ways no matter how hard you try...
And my daughter doesn't go to the mall or anywhere by herself- I am a helicopter parent!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I agree, but we don't know yet if that is the case here.

Well we know they did not spend their days in the sunshine playing well with others..