WI - 35W bridge in Minneapolis collapses!

[Buzz Mills]

It's time for Teddy to begin another Federal Works program.

 

[2luvmy]

Here's a link to a slideshow of those killed and missing in the collapse.

http://wcco.com/slideshows/local_slideshow_214174008

 

[KarlK]

Not at all ignoring the tragedy of the MN bridge collapse, but there is a positive aspect that comes as a result of this.

This provides an opportunity for all Americans to learn about the deplorable state of our nation's infrastructure, and it should have more Americans rightfully questioning as to how, where, and when, our tax money is spent. These are positives, as so often we just go on with our lives, assuming that our governments, city, state, and federal, are taking care of everything for us. This is another wake-up call for all Americans.

Aren't you taking this a bit out of proportion? AFAIK roadwork is done by hundreds of private contractors and some of them and/or their suppliers are bound to be either incompetent/negligent or dishonest. Considering the number of overpasses in this country some are bound to have faults and fail, and as a matter of fact some do, at least one major such incidence every decade I'd say. And it doesn't only happen here, other Western countries see it happen as well and I won't even mention developing countries. Yet nowhere else do people conclude that poorly designed overpasses that fail are obvious signs of a country's imminent demise.

I find it more likely that such failures are an obvious sign of an ailing state inspection system. It appears that some states prefer paying damages to victims over paying for qualified engineers to properly certify and monitor the safety of their highway infrastructure. In my state a few years ago it was found that the inspectors doing the certification were neither independent engineers nor state employees but were either employed by or contracted by the roadworks contractors. Can you spell conflict of interest? Of course once exposed the situation was rectified in real short order and guess what, independent engineers found obvious faults, some of which were in plain view. There are similar problems at the federal, municipal and county levels as well. It's no surprise that so many lawsuits pertaining to road infrastructure failures are settled out of court: no exposure no fixin' up required.

 

[KarlK]

Rome was spending all their money sending their armies all over the world while their homeland crumbled. Hmmmmmmm..............................

That's a myth. One of the reasons for the fall of Rome was that most of its armies had turned against it. Another reason was incompetent rule by barely sane emperors surrounded by a retinue of fraudsters and profiteers. I'll concede that this hits closer to home.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Aren't you taking this a bit out of proportion? AFAIK roadwork is done by hundreds of private contractors and some of them and/or their suppliers are bound to be either incompetent/negligent or dishonest. Considering the number of overpasses in this country some are bound to have faults and fail, and as a matter of fact some do, at least one major such incidence every decade I'd say. And it doesn't only happen here, other Western countries see it happen as well and I won't even mention developing countries. Yet nowhere else do people conclude that poorly designed overpasses that fail are obvious signs of a country's imminent demise.

I find it more likely that such failures are an obvious sign of an ailing state inspection system. It appears that some states prefer paying damages to victims over paying for qualified engineers to properly certify and monitor the safety of their highway infrastructure. In my state a few years ago it was found that the inspectors doing the certification were neither independent engineers nor state employees but were either employed by or contracted by the roadworks contractors. Can you spell conflict of interest? Of course once exposed the situation was rectified in real short order and guess what, independent engineers found obvious faults, some of which were in plain view. There are similar problems at the federal, municipal and county levels as well. It's no surprise that so many lawsuits pertaining to road infrastructure failures are settled out of court: no exposure no fixin' up required.

Not at all. The simple fact is that the U.S. is failing to address serious aging infrastructure problems. In the case of this MN bridge, it isn't so much the age, but it is the original design, building on the cheap, without any redundancy safety factors designed in.

The aging deplorable state of the infrastructure in our country has been talked about for decades now, with very little done to address it. The dams are in even worse condition than the bridges. All inspectors can do is grade bridges to the best of their abilities; even this morning the inspector of the MN bridge said that in this case, they were wrong.

It's one thing to say that 12% of the bridges in our country are in dire need of replacement, or rework, and it is entirely another for the appropriations to be made, to actually do the work. That's where there is a major disconnect. It isn't what is said; it's what is done to correct the deficiencies. That's where the disconnect is.

 

[Marthatex]

The point is, the states are not getting the revenue they need to keep up on our aging roads and bridges, and maintenance and rebuilding when necessary.

The bulk of our Highway Trust Fund money come from an 18.4 cents gasoline tax, which has not been adjusted for inflation, etc. since '93.

How about state leadership - evidently the Minn. Trans. officials were given a choice by engineers? Put steel into the structure, or inspect more often.

They chose "inspect more often". Only six percent of interstate, urban bridges had a structure rating as bad or worse as I-35W span

We can't afford to repair 6 percent of our bridges????

Buzz is stating this should be a wake-up-call for the need to inspect and invest in our aging infrastructure; also what our priorities are.

 

[SewingDeb]

You had three extra zeros in your number SD.

U.S. announces $350 million in tsunami aid
Pledge will deflect criticism, provide major boost to relief effort

The United States is pledging $350 million to help tsunami victims, a tenfold increase over its first wave of aid, President Bush announced Friday. The U.S. aid contribution could rise even beyond that, if needed, Secretary of State Colin Powell said later in the day.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6767190/

Americans, as I recall, donated far more on their own, than our government provided.

Thanks Buzzm,

I knew it was some ungodly number...not that they didn't need a huge amount of help but the US already had a huge deficit and Americans who needed help. Shortfalls showed up soon after with Katrina.

I believe in helping your own first, then if you have extra spread the wealth to others who need it. Just as we have to do with our own family and our income.

 

[Marthatex]

That's a myth. One of the reasons for the fall of Rome was that most of its armies had turned against it. Another reason was incompetent rule by barely sane emperors surrounded by a retinue of fraudsters and profiteers. I'll concede that this hits closer to home.

Can you imagine how much we paid Hallibuton for infrastructure "over there"?

It's like water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink (over here). At least it sounds like most of our infrastructure is still better than what our tax dollars built over there.

"London bridges falling down, falling down....."

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I say we fix all the bridges in Oklahoma first and it will make the numbers look soooo much better as a whole. : )

 

[Buzz Mills]

That's a myth. One of the reasons for the fall of Rome was that most of its armies had turned against it. Another reason was incompetent rule by barely sane emperors surrounded by a retinue of fraudsters and profiteers. I'll concede that this hits closer to home.

Halliburton is at the front of the line on this one. They have their fingers, and arms, in every pie available. Iraq, then Katrina; two of the sources of the largest money grabs in recent history.

I wonder if the Romans privatized a good portion of army functions, like this administration has. Did the Romans have a Halliburton??

Did the Romans have a Halliburton Blackwater mercenary force??

 

[Marthatex]

I say we fix all the bridges in Oklahoma first and it will make the numbers look soooo much better as a whole. : )

Who drives through Oklahoma??

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, I believe I mentioned Halliburton should come rebuild our bridges...since they already have our money! It won't cost us a dime that way. Pull them out of Iraq and let the Iraqi's find the Billion dollars they have "misplaced" to fund themselves. Don't those people have some oil to sell?!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Who drives through Oklahoma??

Actually, the numbers I saw yesterday indicate over 3 Billion people a year do. Straight through and VERY fast..but still! laugh:Most people think Oklahomans are just people you fly over. LOL)

 

[christine2448]

Not at all ignoring the tragedy of the MN bridge collapse, but there is a positive aspect that comes as a result of this.

This provides an opportunity for all Americans to learn about the deplorable state of our nation's infrastructure, and it should have more Americans rightfully questioning as to how, where, and when, our tax money is spent. These are positives, as so often we just go on with our lives, assuming that our governments, city, state, and federal, are taking care of everything for us. This is another wake-up call for all Americans.

Amen to that Buzz! This has certianly made me stand back and rethink my position on a few things. Yes, something like this, really has made me rethink.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Yes, I believe I mentioned Halliburton should come rebuild our bridges...since they already have our money! It won't cost us a dime that way. Pull them out of Iraq and let the Iraqi's find the Billion dollars they have "misplaced" to fund themselves. Don't those people have some oil to sell?!

Halliburton are also Bush's front men in Iraq, scheming on how to privatize, for themselves, 80% of Iraq's oil. That revenue will dwarf all the money they have managed to steal from us. They are said to refer to, our donation, on their behalf, as "chump change."

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Actually, they are Cheney's henchmen if you want to be technical. LOL

 

[Peter Hamilton]

Hugo Chavez wouldn't hesitate to aid MN; he likes to show Bush up, as he did with providing fuel oil, at reduced prices, to many on our East coast.

--lol--Chavez is just a penny-ante dictator of a banana republic--he couldn't show up anybody,only thing he is good at is shutting own TV and radio stations in his own country when they criticize him--See Woody Allen's movie BANANAS(1971)

 

[Buzz Mills]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Actually, the numbers I saw yesterday indicate over 3 Billion people a year do. Straight through and VERY fast..but still! laugh:Most people think Oklahomans are just people you fly over. LOL)

I'm glad you said that, and not me, SS. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

We don't live in Teepees and I don't date cowboys! LMAO I don't even own a pair of cowboy boots...I prefer my heels. >wink<

We know we have to laugh at ourselves around here tho. Everyone else does. <shrugs shoulders>

 

[Buzz Mills]

[/B]

Can you imagine how much we paid Hallibuton for infrastructure "over there"?

It's like water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink (over here). At least it sounds like most of our infrastructure is still better than what our tax dollars built over there.

"London bridges falling down, falling down....."

Some of the contractors simply walked away with the money. As they walked away, they were told, the U.S. government will never hire you again!!

There were more major construction screw-ups than can be believed. I heard partial testimony where a large complex was wired, where the 220V, was actually 440V, because the ground wire was also a hot. Surprise, surprise. These screw-ups were by major contractors.

Seems they couldn't account for something like 19 billion dollars in construction money.

That would build a few bridges. Governor Good and Plenty said replacement cost was between $150 million and $350 million.