Identified! WI - Delafield, WhtMale, UP7632, car stolen, lighter, Sep'77 - John Lindberg Scott

[KLCD620]

Bumping for JD. Masnitram- Have you receive any tips from law enforcement relatives for searching the clues?

 

[Zanko]

Just musing some more: Why would someone buy all brand new clothes and then be out in the wee hours of the morning on a bike, then steal a car? Someone earlier mentioned the possibility of just being released from prison. I suppose this would be a reason for someone to purchase all new clothing. But then again, maybe he had someone he wanted to impress. A girl? An employer?
One of the articles said that the sales clerk at the clothing store was not very helpful. I wonder what this means? S/he didn't remember what he was wearing? Did he speak? Did he have an accent? Did he pull money out of a wallet?
If he was stealing a car to go on a date or even a job interview (reputable or not) I would imagine he would keep his wallet on him. I would imagine the reason he might leave his wallet and belongings elsewhere would be because they were nearby.
But why get a spiffy to go ride a bike to steal a car? Wouldn't that call more attention to yourself if you were dressed up? I would think this wasn't well planned. Maybe he found himself stuck someplace? Either felt very compelled to get out of there, or compelled to be somewhere.
The hour that he was out, makes me think he was coming from somewhere like an evening out. Did the autopsy say if he had any alcohol in his system? Did they check local bars for any info?
Running from the police after stealing a car can be a career criminal or a panicked first timer. Not sure that this simple fact says a whole lot.

 

[carbuff]

No ID, new clothes, no back trail makes me wonder if this is a case of suicide-by-cop?

 

[masnitram]

Zanko- I talked to my Aunt who was a former LE in WI yesterday; she asked me if the autopsy contained any blood alcohol level information as well. She was really thrown by the fact that he was on a bicycle prior to stealing a car. We talked about the fact that our JD was known to be in Wheaton,IL (at the store buying new clothes)...then in Gurnee, IL (on a bike, stolen car)....then got as far as Delafield, WI (location of death) found with sets of vehicle keys etc.....she said at that time of day weather he was drunk or not, he knew where he wanted/needed to be...our JD had a purpose. She said she'd bet the bicycle was stolen as well; but nonetheless our JD knew the area and how to find his way around..definitely local and not a transient. As far as no ID present, she wonders if he may have thrown it out the window while trying to evade the officer. Being a very foggy morning (9/14/77), a LE may not have seen anything being tossed out a window. She also suggested trying to find the field his car rolled, if it hasn't been "built-up" by now...again..being very foggy...something could have easily been missed.



She did state because the case is unsolved that all of our JDs clothes and belongings should still be in storage/on file. I'm going to check on the lighter in particular; I want to know what the inscription actually states..(again, I've seen it printed/listed 3 different ways...) Another interesting note, she stated that in a lot of cases...especially back in the 70's-80's....victim weights where in fact estimations (I honestly didn't know that), basically you got "eyeballed" and they guessed...and hair color options for reporting didn't really allow for highlights or shades so "vanilla" BROWN,BLOND,GREY,BLACK,RED etc was chosen as a "closest" option in cases of 'dirty blond' or 'brown' etc...(I didn't ask about reporting/recording today fyi). She did state the ,as mentioned before, due to the trauma our JD went through in the accident that yes....spines can compress, bones can shatter, etc...causing estimations of height.

 

[masnitram]

I have left my contact in Maine an email and a voicemail today regarding any match between Bernard Ross and our JD.


It has been over a month and I haven't heard anything....

I was thinking about the fact that JD had a denture plate and "extensive chest hair" in regards to his age estimation 17-25. I don't know about you guys, but my "extensive" chest hair didn't appear until I was much closer to 30 (say 28ish). I also am curious about JD with a beard? If he was running from the law, or recently paroled and back on the scene....wouldn't a guy who normally sported a beard shave on the fly to hinder identification? I know someone brought up earlier that he was a little too clean cut for 1977; I agree 100% looking at photos from that era. I'm looking into "older" possibilities for what its worth...


Anyways, I'll keep ya posted if and when I get a reply regarding Ross Jr and JD

 

[CarlK90245]

I was thinking about the fact that JD had a denture plate and "extensive chest hair" in regards to his age estimation 17-25. I don't know about you guys, but my "extensive" chest hair didn't appear until I was much closer to 30 (say 28ish).

As for a denture plate, people of all ages get their teeth knocked out, especially if they play hockey or other contact sports.

As for chest hair, I had some (although not "extensive") in my late teens, early 20's. But I've known guys that looked like Khalid Sheikh Mohammad in terms of body hair when they were teenagers. It all depends on one's genetic make-up.

 

[masnitram]

As for a denture plate, people of all ages get their teeth knocked out, especially if they play hockey or other contact sports.

As for chest hair, I had some (although not "extensive") in my late teens, early 20's. But I've known guys that looked like Khalid Sheikh Mohammad in terms of body hair when they were teenagers. It all depends on one's genetic make-up.

As far as the denture plate, I wonder if that is related to the scar on his hand and knee? Earlier car accident perhaps? I'm going to explore that a little more.

I was assuming because of the appearence from the photos that he may be older then "advertised". I think we all know "older" guys with babyfaces; but the other side of the argument would be if they looked at his bone structure and growth and estimated his age based on that. I dont know why I feel he was simply eyeballed because of the circumstances surrounding his death. I guess we'll have to keep digging....

 

[carbuff]

The scar on his knee is consistent with a sports injury requiring surgery. The other thing I was wondering about is a veteran with post-traumatic stress.

And in relation to Bunny not having a photo -- if you haven't been there, it's hard to picture how insular and suspicious people in rural Maine still are. Even now, many of them have never had a photo taken. So no, it doesn't really surprise me that they don't have a photo of him.

 

[masnitram]

The scar on his knee is consistent with a sports injury requiring surgery. The other thing I was wondering about is a veteran with post-traumatic stress.

And in relation to Bunny not having a photo -- if you haven't been there, it's hard to picture how insular and suspicious people in rural Maine still are. Even now, many of them have never had a photo taken. So no, it doesn't really surprise me that they don't have a photo of him.

I've thought about the Vietnam angle as well; due to the area he was in I would assume Navy because of the Great Lakes Naval Academy nearby; if he wasn't "native" to the Gurnee area. Being that he was in Wheaton prior to that however, who knows.

I did drop a message to the Waukesha County officials handling the case and have inquired about the actual inscription on the lighter and any other possessions not disclosed or already known. I'll keep you posted...

FYI I did also inquire about any "rule-outs"

 

[powerproman]

Hello,

My name is Patrick Ross. I am the brother of Bernard "Bunny" Ross, a missing person mentioned in the posts on this forum. I wanted to set the record straight concerning my brothers disappearance.

I was contacted several days ago on the phone. (Actually, my Dad was but due to his hearing difficulties, he asked me to take the call since I happened to be visiting.) It was a lady named Barbara calling from New Jersey asking us to look at some photos of a JD from Delafield, WI who she thought could be my brother. She emailed us two photos of the man and we immediately were able to conclude it was not my brother Bunny. I emailed her our conclusion, but received no reply from her.

Carbuff was so off target with his comments about how "insular and suspicious people in rural Maine stilll are". First off, the Maine state police have had photos of my brother since his disappearance. They were recent photos (at that time) and were of very good quality. Second, a massive search was conducted by my Dad along with the state police when my brother disappeared. There were reported sitings of him in the area, but he was never found. My father and mother have maintained constant contact with the state police over the years and have never given up hope of finding my brother. Many times they have been sent photos of John Doe's by the police trying to see if it was my brother or not. They have always cooperated and will continue to do so. I don't know any northen Maine folks who are scared to have their picture taken as Carbuff suggests. Don't confuse this with people wanting their privacy to be respected.

On the day my brother left home in Fort Kent, he took my parents car without permission and drove to Presque Isle to his Aunt's house. We believe that he wanted to talk to his cousin who he was close to. He was despondent at the time. After arriving at my Aunt's house, we believe he panicked and decided to depart immediately after arriving. She had hired a painter to paint her house and he had parked a truck in her driveway when he showed up to work that morning. My brother left my parents car and decided to take the painters truck. Not sure why he did this but that's what happened. The truck was later found abandoned but not damaged. After explaining to the painter my brothers despondent state at the time and his age, charges were dropped. Prior to this incident, my brother never had a criminal record and still doesn't as far as we know. He was a loving, kind person who wouldn't hurt anybody. He was having life issues that caused him to leave home like he did. We never could have predicted that he would runaway like he did. Throw away all your theories about him having a criminal record and running from the law. That's not why he left home. We have nothing to hide about his past.

I have talked to my Mom and Dad about providing a photo of my brother to this website and others. My Mom and Dad aren't too computer savvy and are sometimes wary of providing personal information to folks they don't know. They have provided me some photos and told me to wait a few days so they can think about it. This might seem odd but crazy things happen on the Internet sometimes. They desperately want to find my brother but also are wary of just giving up his photo to folks they don't know.

I respect the job you and others are doing in attempting to solve these cases. Please don't think any different based on my previous comments. There were just many comments in the posts that questioned my family's commitment to find my brother and that bothered us. Thanks again for what you are doing and I'll be in touch soon. God Bless.

Patrick Ross

 

[masnitram]

Thank you Patrick for setting the record straight about your brother; no disrespect was intended.

 

[carbuff]

I'm sorry if my comment was offensive; my experience as an outsider visiting Maine was probably quite different than yours as an insider. Everything I mentioned was from personal experience, but I should have known better than to generalize from that to an entire state.

 

[CarlK90245]

I have talked to my Mom and Dad about providing a photo of my brother to this website and others. My Mom and Dad aren't too computer savvy and are sometimes wary of providing personal information to folks they don't know. They have provided me some photos and told me to wait a few days so they can think about it. This might seem odd but crazy things happen on the Internet sometimes. They desperately want to find my brother but also are wary of just giving up his photo to folks they don't know.

Patrick:

If you do decide to publicize a photo of your brother (along with his vital statistics, useful identifying information, and a brief narrative of the details of his disappearance), you should contact the following:

Charley Project (Meaghan Goode): [email protected]
Doe Network (Helene Wahlstrom): [email protected]
NamUs: https://www.findthemissing.org

(NamUs is a self-serve operation. In order to list a missing person on NamUs, the family member or law enforcement agency in charge of the missing person's case must register and create a Missing Persons case file online.)

 

[reasypeasy]

Just musing some more: Why would someone buy all brand new clothes and then be out in the wee hours of the morning on a bike, then steal a car?

My bets would be on the manic phase of bipolar disorder.

Edited to add: Or possibly a mixed state depression.

 

[masnitram]

Just added to the Doe Network a couple of days ago was David Stack from Colorado who went missing July 1st of 1976. The circumstances aren't clear and dont' really match David's possible destination, and there isn't a mention of any scars or dentures...he does fit the physical description and after a hair cut I think does resemble our UID. Thoughts? I will concede that hair looks dark in the photo, but it is black and white...



https://www.colorado.gov/apps/coldcase/casedetail.html?id=2261
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4309dmco.html

UID

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?U200700068S

 

[CarlK90245]

It doesn't look like him to me, although due to the different photo angles, I am unable to point out specific differences.

In addition to the differences you mention, he doesn't look like he has a hairy chest, as the UID does. (Although admittedly, we don't know when the photo was taken.)

 

[masnitram]

Yeah, that is what is most frustrating for me about the UID case. I've read your many suggestions on how to align photos etc and have been doing more of that ,hence the limited posts as of late because I've been aligning photos on my own.

The estimated height, weight, and age of David are good by comparison. I despise black and white photographs because they hide and distort many delicate features IMO; hell I look good in black and white...LOL

With JD rolling the vehicle several times and perhaps being busted up a bit it is even more difficult, but I saw similarities in the hairline and eyebrows and the facial structure didn't seem too "out there" for me to not bring it up for what its worth.

 

[carbuff]

My first reaction was "No way," but the more I looked and tried to compare, the more I wasn't sure. He could have changed a lot in a year, and I'm not sure the t-shirt he's wearing is cut low enough to show chest hair anyway.

The thing that struck me most about him, however, is that the lower left portion of his face (his left, our right) looks slightly distorted or asymmetrical, especially around the mouth. His chin looks slightly puffy. Kind of looks like he might have had recent mouth surgery or injury -- which might have lead to an upper denture as the UID.

The oval photo and writing at the corner makes me think they pulled his photo from somebody's yearbook. So it's probably thoroughly airbrushed.

 

[masnitram]

My first reaction was "No way," but the more I looked and tried to compare, the more I wasn't sure. He could have changed a lot in a year, and I'm not sure the t-shirt he's wearing is cut low enough to show chest hair anyway.

The thing that struck me most about him, however, is that the lower left portion of his face (his left, our right) looks slightly distorted or asymmetrical, especially around the mouth. His chin looks slightly puffy. Kind of looks like he might have had recent mouth surgery or injury -- which might have lead to an upper denture as the UID.

The oval photo and writing at the corner makes me think they pulled his photo from somebody's yearbook. So it's probably thoroughly airbrushed.

I couldn't agree more Carbuff; good point about the face....I couldn't find a way to articulate it clearly but I thought it looked off. I always thought the the UID's chin looked a little off too, but that may be accounted for from the accident.

Did they do airbrushing back in the 70's? Not asking to be silly, I honestly do not know.

I did submit the information to the Colorado Police link as well as to the lead detective in Waukesha Co. Wisconsin basically expressing the same things discussed here.

 

[carbuff]

I couldn't agree more Carbuff; good point about the face....I couldn't find a way to articulate it clearly but I thought it looked off. I always thought the the UID's chin looked a little off too, but that may be accounted for from the accident.

Did they do airbrushing back in the 70's? Not asking to be silly, I honestly do not know.

I did submit the information to the Colorado Police link as well as to the lead detective in Waukesha Co. Wisconsin basically expressing the same things discussed here.

Yeah, it was that similar off-symmetry of the chin that made me think there might be something to it. Thanks for submitting it -- now I need to type with my fingers crossed.

I know airbrushing of senior portraits (which is what that photo looks like) was common in the early 70's, because my photographer did a really good job of making my face look like I'd never even heard the word "pimple."
And it was a favorite technique of Stalin's (nice example here, if you're interested http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbrush#Photo_retouching)