Identified! WI - Delafield, WhtMale, UP7632, car stolen, lighter, Sep'77 - John Lindberg Scott

[carterkatt]

Could the JD have been a locksmith?

Maybe he worked for an automotive locksmith service. That would be one occupation that I can think of that would have multiple set of keys.

Used car dealership? (But I'd think they'd have a "company" ring they'd be on...)... or parking garage (the kind in Chicago where they park for you and you have to wait to get it, because they pack the cars in like sardines?) Car rental place (again.. I think the keys would be on company key chains)

This piece of info picks at me... yet I think if I grabbed our keys from home... that would be several sets of car keys. (as would it be for most of us)

I'm also very interested in the library books. Most "common car thieves" are not library patrons! Most libraries (if not all?) stamp their books inside the covers, AND on a random page - like page 50 or 100, etc. There has got to be a clue in those books! Heck.. the libraries even write the date they bought the book inside the cover or on the first page!

 

[masnitram]

It basically boils down to the differences in knowledge, experience, software and or resources each WS member brings to the table here. We need to keep that in mind and respect what everyone here has to offer. We each might do things a little differently. Some might need more discussion, and assistance to help them learn the ropes. Everyone is welcome, everyones thoughts and idea's are welcome provided they comply with TOS. We each have the choice to which threads we read, how much of the discussion we wish to read.


Respectfully,
Cubby

I'm admittedly very "green" with this and appreciate the assistance. I only want one outcome...and that is a name for this gentleman (and of course others).

@nerosleuth- Yeah, when I found out from the detective that he had a card for a local RV/Camper dealership that is the exact thing he was thinking...perhaps a mechanic. Earlier someone made mention ( I believe it was Cubby) that early 60's automobiles may have been easier to "hotwire"...and that was also discussed. But really it is hard to say what he did for a living or what the circumstances truly are because there are so many other factors that don't tie together comfortable by anyone's standards.

 

[Cubby]

The business card could have been because he was a local, or it could have been from someone he met who may have been willing to offer the UID employment. Presumably after he was released from jail - if our theory about why he was in Wheaton holds true.

We know from the map of downtown Wheaton I linked the local public library is also only a few blocks from the clothing store and former location of the DPC jail. It is possible he had taken the books out to educate himself, or it is possible these books were no longer needed by the library and donated to the jail or given away. Unfortunately LE no longer has access to those items so we likely won't know...

I do hope the detective working on this case finds our theory on why this UID was in Wheaton worthy enough to pursue making contact with DPC LE to obtain the information suggested. Most of what we can do here is bring info to the table for LE and let them run with the baton so to speak if they find the info worth pursuing.

pls keep us posted masnitarm.

 

[Cubby]

Another thought about the keys. If by chance he was a mechanic - he might have bought and sold cars after fixing them up. He might have saved a key from each car he repaired and sold. That might be plausible to tie in the RV location/keys/knowledge of how to hotwire a car.

I don't know that I would automatically assume that he was a local if the tie to the RV business card was due to potential future employment. In other words if LE chooses to pursue the DPC jail theory I wouldn't limit my search to inmates only with a possible WI or IL/WI border residential address. I'd go with the physical description and age range.


just thinking outloud hth

 

[TechWriter797]

He may have stolen the library books. Easy to do back then -- just put them in a backpack or lay a jacket over them and walk out. Perhaps that's why they weren't helpful in the investigation.

 

[nerosleuth]

Another thought about the keys/knowledge of how to hotwire a car.

I just thought of something else here regarding the set of keys and the knowledge of how to hotwire a car.

Could it be possible that our JD was a repo man or worked for a repo company?

 

[carterkatt]

He may have stolen the library books. Easy to do back then -- just put them in a backpack or lay a jacket over them and walk out. Perhaps that's why they weren't helpful in the investigation.

Good point. I'd love to know what the titles were.

 

[Danaya]

Will just throw in my opinion regarding David Stack as the UID. I did not click the post mortem as I stated previously here in the Unidentified section, it grosses me out. However, there was a serial killer (atleast one who's name I can't think of) who preyed on young male hitchhikers in the late seventies/earlier eighties in California. I think David left in earnest to see his family and was murdered shortly after. JMO. Does David really resemble the UID in the postmortem and is the postmortem clear enough that you guys can get an accurate idea of what you're looking for?

 

[masnitram]

Good point. I'd love to know what the titles were.

As would I! Unfortunately the report only states "library books".

At this point I am working on drafting up some of the key elements discussed here and I am going to send it off to the detective (honestly it won't be complete until tomorrow evening due to my "real world" obligations). My hopes are to have him look into the elements regarding the proximity of the Wheaton, IL jail, Gaedes Clothing store, and the Wheaton Public Library. What Cubby pointed our earlier regarding those factors (without rewriting the entire thread) make sense and I feel it deserves a more thorough look. From there tying him to Gurnee is IMHO the next step (including the RV Dealer nearby) and then his true destination.

A lot of elements are perplexing, and perhaps even distracting. We don't know his name...despite the lighter saying "To John from Lauri" it is hard to say if that is more of a distraction then factual. Who is to say that while the lighter didn't belong to the owner of the vehicle, it truly didn't belong to the UID either. When I smoked I accidentally walked away with many lighters that weren't mine and the same is true the other way around. "LAURI"; due to the spelling might be worth investigating further (keep in mind the rules regarding publishing the names of people).

As far as his career, while speculation is part of the deal I guess I don't really see how that is relevant based on what information we have. The UID could really have been a fry cook at McDonalds for all we know and for all we have to go on. I haven't really given too much credence to the RV card; he may have wanted to by a camper...and that may have been it. However, because that is something not made public until my discussion with the detective...and again based on the fact we have so little to work with...it is worth checking into but not really likely to yield a whole lot because of the fact that 33 years has passed since this man was passed away.

Lets keep trucking along and find out who he is; I'll keep everyone posted on anything new that pops up.

All the best!

"masnitram"

Oh and regarding David Stack....it is close enough to warrant more information about him for sure. IMO I saw some similarities with the shape of his head, the jaw line, and what I could guestimate about his build. What we don't know (and I'm going to call it in again) is if David had a partial upper denture plate and any scarring on his hand and outer thumb.

 

[CarlK90245]

I spent the last couple of days working on a facial reconstruction for this John Doe.

There will probably be additional revisions, but I got the resemblance close enough to put up on this thread.

 

[tatertot]

I'm impressed as always, Carl. I think that reconstruction captures his look well.

It's a bit far-fetched, but was Sept. 14 trash pick-up night? John Doe might have spotted several bags of clothing on the curb and threw them in the car, intending to sort through them later to see if there was anything he could use and probably not knowing they were women's clothes. His DN profile doesn't mention what type of bags they actually were, i.e. black/green trash bags vs. bags from a clothing store.

 

[Cubby]

FWIW, September 14 1977 was a Wednesday. I thought I'd add that little bit of info though it doesn't jump out for me as having any meaningful help with the info we know. I thought I'd add in case it might for someone else.

 

[Cubby]

I called the DPCS and verified the county jail was housed in the old court house building at 201 Reber Street Wheaton back in 77.

hth

 

[masnitram]

Thanks Cubby, I show it to be a direct link but I did not mention you have to scroll.
I found a url with a different missing date. Here is a link to a family entry from a brother. He notes the missing date to be 1973. This could account for the photo that appears earlier than the missing date. I failed to mention that my facial skin scanner is picking up a "valley" in the chin area. Very faint, but still there and it could be a dimple. Sometimes a "cleft" in the chin is not so evident until the person matures.

http://www.1800peoplesearch.com/missing/search2004/2004-12-5-0-5650.htm

Mensch, I left a voicemail for Audrey Simpkins (the gatekeeper to the detectives in Colorado) regarding David...and included the "peoplesearch" link in case they have had no luck finding out anything new on David.

Unfortunately today I won't be able to follow up with Waukesha until later; I want to, as mentioned before, make sure I dot all of my I's and cross all of my T's and not miss anything in order avoid the ...."oh and what about this..." follow up's. In short, I want everything clear and concise before I send it to him.

I'll keep you posted...

 

[masnitram]

Email has been sent to the Waukesha Detective; regarding all the points we've covered over the past three days and I included the information/contacts so he can look into David Stack as well.

I have been too antsy and couldn't put off sending the info so yes I did it much sooner then I intended; but I'm sure it is concise and without ommissions.

I will let you know when he replies!

 

[Mensch]

Thanks masnatram and I am sure you did just fine. Keep us posted on your find. I am so happy he still has living family members. Many of these cold cases do not.
yasher koach for many successful resolutions.!:highfive:

 

[masnitram]

Thanks masnatram and I am sure you did just fine. Keep us posted on your find. I am so happy he still has living family members. Many of these cold cases do not.
yasher koach for many successful resolutions.!:highfive:

Bracha vehazlaha to you as well Mensch!

 

[Claudette]

Just jumping into this exciting thread with some random thoughts and opinions I would like to add.

- I personally think he looks of German or Eastern European descent. German would make it more likely he is from Wisconsin - Wisconsin becomes more German as you move further north (for example, I came across Nazi memorabilia more than once at antique shops up near the Green Bay area, Door county more specifically). Eastern European is more Chicago. These are based on my own observations as someone who has lived and vacationed in the area my entire life.

- I think we can safely say his range of residence is somewhere between the middle of Wisconsin to the top 1/3 of Illinois.

- I can't help but think he was in a hurry to leave where he originated, and I say this because of the women's and men's clothing. Almost like he just threw whatever he had into a bag.

- We will never know but I can't help but wonder if he had Catcher in the Rye as one of the library books, isn't there some conspiracy theory with that book and criminals?

- One final thing worth noting, as a local. The areas that we think he has ties to (northern Illinois, specifically closer to the border, and Southern Wisconsin) were HUGE summer vacation spots. I mean, the entire area. It isn't like that any more, but I know for example in the 20s all of the rich people went up to the Chain O Lakes to their summer homes. Many of them still stand. I wasn't around in the 70s so I can't say if it was like this back then too or if it was more residential.

 

[masnitram]

Just jumping into this exciting thread with some random thoughts and opinions I would like to add.

- I personally think he looks of German or Eastern European descent. German would make it more likely he is from Wisconsin - Wisconsin becomes more German as you move further north (for example, I came across Nazi memorabilia more than once at antique shops up near the Green Bay area, Door county more specifically). Eastern European is more Chicago. These are based on my own observations as someone who has lived and vacationed in the area my entire life.

- I think we can safely say his range of residence is somewhere between the middle of Wisconsin to the top 1/3 of Illinois.

- I can't help but think he was in a hurry to leave where he originated, and I say this because of the women's and men's clothing. Almost like he just threw whatever he had into a bag.

- We will never know but I can't help but wonder if he had Catcher in the Rye as one of the library books, isn't there some conspiracy theory with that book and criminals?

- One final thing worth noting, as a local. The areas that we think he has ties to (northern Illinois, specifically closer to the border, and Southern Wisconsin) were HUGE summer vacation spots. I mean, the entire area. It isn't like that any more, but I know for example in the 20s all of the rich people went up to the Chain O Lakes to their summer homes. Many of them still stand. I wasn't around in the 70s so I can't say if it was like this back then too or if it was more residential.

Hi Claudette! I'm a life long resident of Wisconsin and you are correct; I remember in the early 80's when traveling to northern Wisconsin meant seeing more Illinois license plates then Wisconsin. The last 10-15 years however, while you still see some Illinois plates, the numbers for one reason or another have significantly dwindled.

As far as ethnicity goes, it is hard to say what the John Doe is...but my guess is along the same lines you brought up however I showed my mom the photos of this John Doe and she agreed that he eerily looks like he could easily be related to us and she's 100% Norwegian....that makes me 50% Norwegian 25% Polish and 25% English because I do have a dad :crazy:
Anyways....the side profile shot of him looks a lot like a male version of my mom. (Mom agreed!)

I agree 100% with him being in a hurry. The mystery is "WHY?". When I talked with the detective he concurred that he knew where he was going and he knew he needed to get there fast for whatever reason. Normal situations don't equate to stealing a car and meeting your demise at 4am on a Wednesday (9/14/77)...something was surely up.

 

[McSpy]

Ok, the library books and the clothes....both mens and womens did belong to our JD.

Here is the email reply from the detective:

"Misc clothing for both men and women. When I talked with the owner of the vehicle he told me that the clothing and the books did not belong to him."

So JD was on a bicycle in Gurnee, IL at approximately 3am with three bags of clothing and library books? He had to have stolen the vehicle much earlier then the approximated time!

So he had to be relatively local at that time in order to take the stolen car to wherever his residence was at the time....pick up his clothes and books and hit the road.

If the library books belonged to the John Doe, it makes me wonder why LE didn't track down the library and who had taken out those books at the time.

I'm new here and have read through some of the posts.You are all doing a great job researching this case.