Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #37

[esayer]

Do you all actually think this was some random act where he just decided to pick this mystery house and kill two adults and take the girl?

Drugs are bad.

 

[human]

All this talk about trauma and what it does or doesn’t cause.

Highly reccommend reading “The Body Keeps Score” for a comprehensive look at PTSD and it’s life long effects.

No two people respond directly the same ; even to the same trauma. (In the book two people are in a car crash together and their responses are vastly different. One develops severe flashbacks, nightmares, etc. The other is almost non chalant about it. Why? For the one with the PTSD symptoms it was their first trauma. The other had many childhood traumas that taught the brain to disassociate).

Bottom line: No two people with the same illness, personality disorder, mental impairment or trauma will react or act in the exact same ways because no two people have ever lived the exact same life.

Very important book to read.

 

[Niner]

Monday, January 14th:
*First Appearance Hearing (@ 3:30pm CT) - WI – Jayme Closs (13) (missing Oct. 15, 2018, Barron, found Jan. 10, 2019, 70 miles away in Gordon), killed James Closs (56) & Denise Closs (46) her parents - *Jake (Jacob) Thomas Patterson (21) arrested & charged (1/10/19) with 2 count of 1st degree intentional homicide & 1 count of kidnapping.
First appearance scheduled for Monday, 1/14 @ 3:30pm.

 

[human]

You're missing the point. The point is that victims of TARGETED PERSONAL, severe, depersonalizing trauma such as forced abduction after seeing one's parents murdered ( most likely she saw or he told her soon as a control method), being held in a strange place perhaps with blindfolds, gags, bindings, handcuffs, deprivation of food, basic sanitation and any sense of time and place WOULD BREAK YOU AND A WAR- HARDENED POW in your spirit and parts of your mental processing.

Sure, you both would react " differently", all people process and react " differently", more accurately stated as uniquely individually, but enough research has been done on the subject for us to know without one iota of doubt that a conscious or partly conscious prisoner will have trauma to recover from in the future.

Also, you give the example of 2 car accident survivors where one deals better because they've been through many car accidents before.
I sincerely hope you are not saying that a survivor of abuse which is repeated responds less than one who has never been abducted and abused before. IOW, the analogy SUCKS.

Unless it is dealt with by the person in their own productive and healthy ways, usually with guidance and loving support, then they might as well still BE in the basement in the dark with little food, water, sanitation for the rest of their lives.

We cannot heal from this level of trauma we cannot acknowledge or admit and ask someone we trust to support us emotionally as we are dealing with the hdealing.

I think reading the bookand then analyzing would make more sense than criticizng it. It is excellent and I feel everyone would benefit from reading it.

The OP simply gave an easy explnation of the fact that people respond to trauma differently and why.

 

[ilovechili]

1. The night she was found the sheriff expected more arrests and people involved. The next day that changed.
2. In the morning press conference, the Douglas County Sheriff answered the question whether the perp was looking for her when arrested. He said he did not believve so. By the afternoon press conference that changed. And now most media is reporting he was out looking for her.
3. The media reported she walked up to the woman, other media report she ran. Some say the woman was on the road, some say she was at the end of her own driveway (both could be true).
4. They seemed to know he shaved his head to avoid leaving evidence, planned this, went to extreme lengths, and that she was the target. I fail to see how they would know that except from him (who knows if he tells the truth) or from her and it may be what he told her (which again who knows if that is the truth). Short of finding a diary of his or a notebook plotting and planning, or a computer (but that takes time to examine) to know this for a fact so quickly I wonder how...

And more similar things I will not bore all with and go into....

Not a knock at anyone, just saying in the rush of finding her, as usual, media accounts differ in our impressions just by using one different word sometimes than another report and LE also has info I suppose rushing in fast and furious and media bombarding and the public too asking questions, all while trying to investigate what they just had occur and are scrambling to deal with and collecting facts as they go so those can change as they find out more.

I guess though, what my overall point is, as from the start, there are still far more questions in this case than answers and it still just doesn't make overall sense but hopefully we will come to find out those missing parts--meaning how they know he planned it, how he targeted her, etc., how they know beyond a doubt no member of the family ever encountered him and that she was the target. That too is not a shadow or doubt at anyone or doubting anything, I just do not see how they can know that--he may have told them that, but again, why would anyone trust his word unless perhaps he was hooked to a lie detector...?

I think for the sake of all in the future on how he came to do this, target them or her, is why these questions are of such importance to many so if there is anything to watch for or signs there may have been, so people can protect their own to the best of their ability.

It did sound as though today, when the complaint is filed, some things will be found out per the sheriff who seemed eager to share some things but decided to wait and leave it to prosecutors, etc.

I remain so thrilled she is home and safe and wish her the best and healing prayers. May her parents RIP knowing she is safe.

 

[kiwilaura]

This may have been discussed, I struggle to keep up, but it won't surprise me to find JP is a member, or had interest in, "incel" communities. These are men who struggle to get sexual partners and hate women for "denying" them sex, and hate the men who can "get" the women. This may explain the killing of Jayme's parents.

Part of the culture also supports being attracted to much younger females (not necessarily underage though) who are more pure and more controllable.

"Self-identified incels are mostly white, male and heterosexual, and are often described as young and friendless introverts. Some media outlets depict them as unemployed and living with parents."

Incel - Wikipedia

 

[ilovechili]

This may have been discussed, I struggle to keep up, but it won't surprise me to find JP is a member, or had interest in, "incel" communities. These are men who struggle to get sexual partners and hate women for "denying" them sex, and hate the men who can "get" the women. This may explain the killing of Jayme's parents.

Part of the culture also supports being attracted to much younger females (not necessarily underage though) who are more pure and more controllable.

"Self-identified incels are mostly white, male and heterosexual, and are often described as young and friendless introverts. Some media outlets depict them as unemployed and living with parents."

Incel - Wikipedia

It has been brought up. I can say I honestly had never heard of the word. Yet at my middle age, there have been the occasional type encountered in life here and there that seem to have those issues and "rage". I just did not know the word/label, that there are online groups of them, etc. Scary.

 

[TheVic]

It has been brought up. I can say I honestly had never heard of the word. Yet at my middle age, there have been the occasional type encountered in life here and there that seem to have those issues and "rage". I just did not know the word/label, that there are online groups of them, etc. Scary.

Well that was an interesting read on Wiki, and I agree. Scary. I had never heard of that label either.

 

[human]

Friend of Closs kidnapping suspect: “It’s as confusing as it is to anyone”

Sorry if this has been posted. Interesting from a friends perspective.

Wow. I did not expect that.

 

[Confusion]

Sorry for the novel, especially if anyone bothers to read the entire thing!

This Becky's School of Dance is much closer to her house. DO we know that she traveled to Rice Lake for these classes?

ETA I believe one of her aunts lives in Rice Lake so it is possible. I'm just wondering which studio she would have attended.

Google Maps

I think she had gone to the one in Rice Lake until it closed, and then changed to this one. The owner had said something in an early interview about it.

@katydid23 Ok. I never saw anything to contradict the story that he was working on Sunday.

All I ever saw was speculation.

You're missing the point. The point is that victims of TARGETED PERSONAL, severe, depersonalizing trauma such as forced abduction after seeing one's parents murdered ( most likely she saw or he told her soon as a control method), being held in a strange place perhaps with blindfolds, gags, bindings, handcuffs, deprivation of food, basic sanitation and any sense of time and place WOULD BREAK YOU AND A WAR- HARDENED POW in your spirit and parts of your mental processing.

Sure, you both would react " differently", all people process and react " differently", more accurately stated as uniquely individually, but enough research has been done on the subject for us to know without one iota of doubt that a conscious or partly conscious prisoner will have trauma to recover from in the future.

Also, you give the example of 2 car accident survivors where one deals better because they've been through many car accidents before.
I sincerely hope you are not saying that a survivor of abuse which is repeated responds less than one who has never been abducted and abused before. IOW, the analogy SUCKS.

Unless it is dealt with by the person in their own productive and healthy ways, usually with guidance and loving support, then they might as well still BE in the basement in the dark with little food, water, sanitation for the rest of their lives.

We cannot heal from this level of trauma we cannot acknowledge or admit and ask someone we trust to support us emotionally as we are dealing with the hdealing.

I have to agree that not everybody responds to trauma/tragedies the same way, and I don't believe that every kidnapping victim is held under the same circumstances. I haven't seen any mention in this case of blindfolds, bindings, gags, handcuffs, etc., so it's possible that at least some of them weren't used. We all have our own traumas and tragedies to overcome, some much worse than others, and we all deal with them in our own ways. After all of the things I did go through as a child and adolescent, the only one that still obviously triggers panic attacks is related to something that happened 60+ years ago. Those that happened later were dealt with in the manner that worked best for me. Whatever happened to JC these past few months will be dealt with in whatever manner works best for her. MOO

I actually think you are reading into my post and perhaps responding emotionally based on your experiences. Nothing you have said contradicts what I said so I’m not sure what point I’m missing .

To re-iterate my point was that no one responds the same to trauma. Period. We can’t say “well if you had this or that before a certain age” you will react this way or that way. It’s invalid.

The BRAIN is re-wired in trauma situations. Legitimately physically changes. Yes, someone who is exposed to repeated traumas will start to react less and less. Its called disassociation. It’s survival instinct and the brains way of protecting you. That doesn’t mean it isn’t traumatic. It is. Your default coping mechanisms are just different.

Everyone reacts differently to trauma. Everyone has to heal from it in their own ways. And at this point even experts aren’t sure what the “best practices” are. With recent studies on C-PTSD many of the things we thought were best practices may not be.

Thanks, that seems to explain why I don't really have much of a reaction to any "traumas" anymore. I just hope that JC has strong, but at least somewhat healthy, coping mechanisms.

Just wanted to pop in and say thank you to everyone on here who has been so helpful in trying to figure out this case! This community has been incredibly uplifting during Jayme's disappearance and rallying around her in her return. With this case dying down there are many more children in Wisconsin who are still missing and need just as much help. In the link is 51 still missing, let's help find them!

Leooking at that, it started looking like someone in Wisconsin doesn't like non-white people much. With all who disappeared within the past year, only a handful were white. Maybe just a coincidence, but maybe not. MOO

Does anyone see anything in the pictures that would show the door to the basement room could be locked from the outside ? I keep trying to blow the pictures up and don't see anything that would look like a hook or latch for a lock to be placed on the outside. Only the inside lock on the door handle.

I wondered about that too. It seems odd that he'd put her in a room where she could lock him out, but he couldn't lock her in. I'm wondering if they'll discover that the room was left that way by the sister (and maybe people throwing junk in there over the years), and JC was held somewhere else in the house. MOO

 

[Bernard_Shakey]

Jayme Closs kept as prisoner inside squalid basement 'cell' | Daily Mail Online

 

[Rhenish]

Jayme Closs kept as prisoner inside squalid basement 'cell' | Daily Mail Online

I notice a mini Christmas Tree on the table below the window in the photo that is two photos up from the photo with the beverage cans in the snow. This is in the same photo as the Monopoly board game which is right below the table. The article also says "Twinkling Christmas decorations are still strung across the yard" (though I do not them in any of the photos). It could be those Christmas items have been there for years as it doesn't appear there was too much regular housekeeping being done but perhaps put there this past Christmas Season which does make me speculate if "he" was in fact trying to gain Jayme's trust and attempting to normalize the situation and acclimate Jayme into home and into his life. Just speculating....

 

[tnith]

Is that a bottle of nail polish remover in the bowl?

Inside squalid basement 'cell' where Jayme Closs spent 88 days as prisoner of a 21-year-old loner | Daily Mail Online

It looks the same colour as whatever is in the spray bottle, next to it.

How much time would it take to remove the goop from furniture?

How to Remove Duct Tape Residue


1
Scrape the residue off with a dull blade. A butter knife is ideal, but you may also use a putty knife or a razor with an attached guard. Hold the blade flat against the surface and slowly slide the knife over it to scrape off the residue.[1]

• Be gentle to avoid scratching the surface. If you’re worried about scratches, skip scraping.

2
Soak a soft cloth in rubbing alcohol and rub at the area. Dampen the cloth with isopropyl rubbing alcohol from the medical section at any drug or general store. Make sure the cloth is clean and soft to avoid damaging the surface you’re treating. Then, gently rub the cloth back and forth over the area until the adhesive comes off. The combination of the rubbing alcohol and friction from rubbing will remove most of it.[2]

• Acetone or nail polish remover may be used instead, but are more likely to damage painted surfaces.

 

[tnith]

I notice a mini Christmas Tree on the table below the window in the photo that is two photos up from the photo with the beverage cans in the snow. This is in the same photo as the Monopoly board game which is right below the table. The article also says "Twinkling Christmas decorations are still strung across the yard" (though I do not them in any of the photos). It could be those Christmas items have been there for years as it doesn't appear there was too much regular housekeeping being done but perhaps put there this past Christmas Season which does make me speculate if "he" was in fact trying to gain Jayme's trust and attempting to normalize the situation and acclimate Jayme into home and into his life. Just speculating....

Someone was pining away for simpler days.

Appears to have haphazard unpacking of stowed away childhood memories. This entire property is chock full of reminders of mother' care, siblings and carefree play. What with all these locals claiming Patterson was always only another meek little mouse, the only one who understands how insane he'd become is the girl who should get the chance to put it all behind. How did she not set it all on fire on her way out... I'll never know.

How horribly frustrating it will all be. I hate what this has done to Jayme.

 

[Ragnarok]

Someone was pining away for simpler days.

Appears to have haphazard unpacking of stowed away childhood memories. This entire property is chock full of reminders of mother' care, siblings and carefree play. What torching the place was the least of Jamyswith all these locals claiming Patterson was always only another meek little mouse, the only one who understands how insane he'd become is the girl who should get the chance to put it all behind. How did she not set it all on fire on her way out... I'll never know.

How horribly frustrating it will all be. I hate what this has done to Jayme.

I think torching the place was the least of Jayme's concerns when she stepped outside. Hopefully the place will be condemned and demolished. Fingers crossed. I agree on the statement.

Edited to add last comment.

 

[stephlovescheese]

Today show will have an update shortly.

 

[margarita25]

I am quite surprised by this perp in some ways, not all ways, but some ways. Still thinking about and processing all this.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO, his attorneys are going to try to implicate her. Words like "tragic" and "prayers." I see it now. Ugh.

They never would be that stupid imo.

That is the worst possible thing they could ever do when they know they absolutely have no evidence of any of it. He is doing it correctly. He knows it is tragic and he knows everyone thinks so too.

When I read what he said I got the impression they are resigned to the fact this is a tough case for them but they will make sure he is given good representation so the judicial system works like it is intended both for the state and defendent.

I think they already know this is an unwinnable case for JP but have promised him he will be given good representation by them as they are required to do.

In fact compared to other defense mouthpieces I found his remarks refreshing. At least he didnt say something totally ridiculous like he knows his client is stone cold innocent. I think even before knowing any of the evidence they know they have been handed a very difficult case but will do the best they can for this defendant.

Blaming Jayme would be a fatal mistake. It would be like committing judicial suicide. It's obvious by the condition she was found in when she escaped he had no emotional bond prior or after he kidnapped her. She was the captured child he chose even though she had never known him before.

Jmo

 

[margarita25]

Stating FTR I’m very unhappy about the “empty box” photo and that information being released in such a tabloid manner.

 

[MrsParker0401]

I enjoy pattern recognition, so here's my list of speculations. I'm a new and very zealous websleuth, so bear with me if I babble!

1.)OK. His older brother got in trouble for sex with a minor, but his FB showed him in a relationship with a same girl (same or different from charges, who knows?) for several years. Her FB showed about the same. Her FB also showed she was currently in WI...and still with the guy. So is he in WI, too? Could JP have been influenced by the having a relationship with a younger girl thing? Older brother has a drug charge somewhere, too. Could this be how the boys "supported" themselves? When police initially confirmed/recovered Jayme, they said they expected possible further suspects. Oh yeah? Brother one of them for a hot minute?

2.) JP didn't make the cut for the Marines. One of my boys is a Marine and you know, I am so proud he made it through! The basic training/Crucible is brutal! I didn't know my boy was that tough! So for JP to have been unsuccessful...what happened? And his mother posted he was "leaving soon" but no updates after...or none I could see. Hmmm...moms on social media are usually...loud and proud about stuff like that. In my experience, moms that enjoy hunting, (including bowhunting, yo), guns, wilderness, etc. are usually really vocal about the armed forces. What has JP been up to for the past 3 years? And if the theories about him being a "gamer" are true...yo. He'd have a social media presence SOMEWHERE. Gamers aren't gamers unless they get online to talk to one another while gaming! It's 1/2 the battle!

3.) I read that the cabin was transferred to a local credit union by the father 8 days before the kidnapping. Was there a " or get off the pot come to Jesus get a job" trigger? The parents have been divorced for some time...was dad tired of supporting his troubled sons? Whatever their economics, the family had enough $$ to keep a cabin - with utilities (at least lights & firewood), but their boys weren't in college or really doing anything with life...soooo...I'm not finding many interwebs fingerprints on the father either.

4.) People (teachers, friends from school, etc.) have described JP as a smart, quiet loner. OK. Neighbors said they weren't even fully aware that he was staying at the cabin but also that their family was known to be there year round. Grandma died in May. Was she there year-round? Was she "supporting" JP? The cabin ain't fancy, but the pics I saw show it to be relatively neat - esp. with a 21 yr old staying there for at least 3 months. Not all 21 yr olds are slobs, but most are. Best guess? Grandma lived there, dies, dad has to let go of cabin, JP has until end of year to hang out one last time - with a "girlfriend"? Maybe if he had a girlfriend to "take care of" dad would be more receptive to continued support? Maybe the kid was going to lose everything - no family to rely on, no job, nowhere to stay - and just decided to do something twisted before going out with a bang. Don't tell me 21 yr old males don't come up with these ideas...there's been too many in the news lately.

Just thoughts - too early in the morning & color me obsessed - over coffee & chainsmoking - while I hunt & devour clues! Feel free to point out any errors or offer answers on these burning questions!