Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

[Deleted member 158085]

Again, I already posted that as have others.
- He murdered her parents in front of her.
- He held her very life in his hands.
- She had no sense of safety aside whatever she could garner from him
- He had her removed from any sense of normalcy she'd ever known
- She was dependent on him for what food he gave her
- He used reward / punishment to entrap her under the bed.

You are free to disagree that Jayme experienced it or not. You are also free to mute me if you don't want to see discussion of it. No hard feelings. But it's my belief that in any case of prolonged abuse / especially with captivity there is trauma bonding taking place.

These things can all be true without a psychological alliance occurring (which is estimated to happen in 8% of hostage cases). I’m not asking if the ground was fertile for this to occur. I’m asking what evidence you have that it did.

 

[Hope4More]

Again, I already posted that as have others.
- He murdered her parents in front of her.
- He held her very life in his hands.
- She had no sense of safety aside whatever she could garner from him
- He had her removed from any sense of normalcy she'd ever known
- She was dependent on him for what food he gave her
- He used reward / punishment to entrap her under the bed.

You are free to disagree that Jayme experienced it or not. You are also free to mute me if you don't want to see discussion of it. No hard feelings. But it's my belief that in any case of prolonged abuse / especially with captivity there is trauma bonding taking place.

I think what's missing is any knowledge about the "reward" part. From what he told LE, and what Jayme told LE (that we know of, from the CC), he tried to control her solely through fear/intimidation.

 

[Mom24]

Where do we see anything that indicates she may have loved this monster? I just believe this conversation has nothing to do with Jayme’s situation, unless we get more information that indicates otherwise.

I didn't say Jayme love that monster. It's two different scenarios and in response to a conversation and several back and forths with someone concerning trauma bonding and it's occurrence. Jayme was also not an abused wife, or married to him, nor was she his child. Let's not put words in each other's mouths.

 

[Ibiz]

I do care as well, however something had to have happened in that home. If the father feels any level of responsibility, I would say it's well founded. Both of his sons have committed crimes, personal crimes, and any person looking in has to wonder what in the world nurtured that kind of future behavior. Had it just been one child in the family, then it would be an anomaly, but to have two sons? Something happened in that home. Someone turned a blind eye at the very least.

I dont know Mom24... do you think parent blaming is the answer here? If we look, we can probably find a lot of serial murderers that grew up in very nice households.... just saying..

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I didn't say Jayme love that monster. It's two different scenarios and in response to a conversation and several back and forths with someone concerning trauma bonding and it's occurrence. Jayme was also not an abused wife, or married to him, nor was she his child. Let's not put words in each other's mouths.

That’s why I think this line of discussion is getting off topic at this point. No offense to you. I enjoy your posts, as well as Bellyup’s.

 

[Mom24]

I'm sure he didn't take a break up well either. But am less sure that he slashed the tires of his (alleged) ex's mother's car. Baron is a teeny tiny place. Even if for whatever reason the mom didn't call LE, I'd be willing to bet that at least half of the town's peeps, including teachers, would have heard rumors about it within a few days.

I agree, I'm not sure I believe the whole tire slashing thing either. It may be true, but you would think in a small town of only 34 students in the graduating class this would have been the talk of the town. Another thing I'll believe when I see proof.
DM has been able to get some interesting inside info on cases, but this one seems too sensational to believe.

 

[MyBelle]

I think what's missing is any knowledge about the "reward" part. From what he told LE, and what Jayme told LE (that we know of, from the CC), he tried to control her solely through fear/intimidation.

JC also said he hit her in the back with an object when he found one of the barriers under the bed slightly moved. I've seen nothing to indicate JP "rewarded" the child in any way. I think she spent 88 days in utter terror.

JMO

 

[Sjm_qc]

I'm sure he didn't take a break up well either. But am less sure that he slashed the tires of his (alleged) ex's mother's car. Baron is a teeny tiny place. Even if for whatever reason the mom didn't call LE, I'd be willing to bet that at least half of the town's peeps, including teachers, would have heard rumors about it within a few days.

Pedantic note: this wouldn’t have/didn’t happened in Barron co.

Otherwise, the tire-slashing incident may have happened (I think it or some version of it probably did), but there may also have been no proof of who was responsible.

 

[Mom24]

I dont know Mom24... do you think parent blaming is the answer here? If we look, we can probably find a lot of serial murderers that grew up in very nice households.... just saying..

Normally I'd agree, but in this case something had to happen in that home. Three children raised in the same environment and two of them were just bad seeds?

 

[Julia966]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here, looooong time lurker, we're talking years without ever having signed up until today!

I'm in Australia which makes keeping up difficult as I'm asleep while you're all posting and for a case like this, there's always so much activity so I apologise in advance if im repeating something that's already been discussed.

I had a thought while reading about JP hiding Jayme under the bed when friends were over. Can someone please tell me if the friends visiting the house while Jayme was there have been confirmed by LE or if any of these friends have come forward? My thinking behind this is that this information has come from Jayme herself, yes? And she also said that he would turn music up so she couldn't hear what was going on outside the room she was in. So what if this (as in friends visiting the house) is just something he told her to appear popular and normal to her and not like the sad, anti-social loser he really was? Just an idea that popped into my head, but to me IF his deranged plan was to keep her as his girlfriend, then maybe he was trying to portray himself as an ordinary guy with friends and an active social life when in reality no one ever came to the house apart from immediate family.

All my opinion, based purely off the fact that I'm yet to see any confirmation from LE or these supposed friends that there was ever anyone else there. Sorry if I've missed something though and gone off on a wild goose chase for nothing!

Yeah, I agree. Jayme said in the complaint that "friends and/or relatives" would come over, but of course, she didn't know anything about who was coming over except what he told her when he stashed her under the bed. JP said his father came over on Saturdays but made no mention of anyone else. No one has come forward claiming to be a current friend/acquaintance. If there was a friend out there, or someone who had been in the house, I could understand if they are wary about stepping forward to talk about it, but still. I doubt he had any friends at all.

 

[Mom24]

Yeah, I agree. Jayme said in the complaint that "friends and/or relatives" would come over, but of course, she didn't know anything about who was coming over except what he told her when he stashed her under the bed. JP said his father came over on Saturdays but made no mention of anyone else. No one has come forward claiming to be a current friend/acquaintance. If there was a friend out there, or someone who had been in the house, I could understand if they are wary about stepping forward to talk about it, but still. I doubt he had any friends at all.

He may have told her people were coming over and stuck her under the bed and no one came over. With the music on, she wouldn't really have been able to hear and he may have done that from time to time to test her.
But neighbors did mention that saw people coming in and out of the house, but I don't know if they were talking about while JC was there or just in general over the years.
And he may have had friends in and out, but given the situation I agree that any friends he may have had are going to be wary about admitting any association to him or the house.

 

[bellyup]

I think what's missing is any knowledge about the "reward" part. From what he told LE, and what Jayme told LE (that we know of, from the CC), he tried to control her solely through fear/intimidation.

The "reward" can be as simple as not being hit or screamed at.

 

[bizzle2]

Very true but i went in and found that it took them over an hour and 20 min to change the the call from suicide to homicide. I absolutely understand it takes awhile to come up with the abduction piece but it shouldn't have taken very long on the homicide end.[/QUOTE]

At 1:11am (11 min after arriving on scene) they noted that two subjects were down.

At 1:32am (32 min after arriving on scene) they requested a search team, and also stated that no gun was found.

It's pretty clear that the officers were thinking homicide well before the call was officially changed to homicide at 3:05am. IMO the matter of changing the call was just an administrative thing -- they were already investigating it as a homicide at that point.

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

 

[bellyup]

That’s why I think this line of discussion is getting off topic at this point. No offense to you. I enjoy your posts, as well as Bellyup’s.

If a mod tells me it's off topic I will concede.
Personally I don't see discussing trauma bonding as any more off topic than continually evaluating JP's psyche or what happend to him to play into his actions.

It's the flip side of that coin.

And I think important when posters are discussing "why" Jayme didn't move that bed or totes prior to her actual escape. It was starting to look a little victim blamey to me without an understanding of how trauma bonding actually works.

 

[MyBelle]

I didn't say Jayme love that monster. It's two different scenarios and in response to a conversation and several back and forths with someone concerning trauma bonding and it's occurrence. Jayme was also not an abused wife, or married to him, nor was she his child. Let's not put words in each other's mouths.

Trauma bonding is a term that is often used to describe an existing relationship that turns toxic. Jayme had no relationship whatsoever with JP prior to her abduction.

JMO

People often stay in abusive relationships because of something called 'trauma bonding' — here are the signs it's happening to you

 

[Ibiz]

They didn't even realize it was the vehicle per Paul Blume (who has been top notch on this case)
Paul Blume on Twitter:

Yes. Barron Co has cameras mounted on their squads. Yes, I understand there is video of vehicles deputies passed on their way to #JaymeCloss house on 10/15. Yes. They looked at that video as part of their investigation. And no. They didn't realize one was a get-away vehicle.

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The two vehicles released were seen on camera footage in the area.

Two vehicles of interest in Jayme Closs investigation
"Authorities are looking for two vehicles of interest that may be related to the Jayme Closs investigation.Cameras captured surveillance video of two vehicles that were in the area around the time of the shooting at the Closs home in Barron, Wisconsin last week."

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I would be curious what tips led to the ground searches that were in the opposite direction that JTP traveled, but I don't know that we will ever get an answer on this.

Authorities expand ground search for missing Wisconsin girl Jayme Closs

"Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald said Monday that investigators have received more than 1,300 tips and have closed 1,100 of them. Some of the tips led to the decision to resume the ground search, he said, though he declined to elaborate."

Thank you... that's what we need to try and get at... it seems to be somewhat of a head scratcher if you ask me..

 

[Mom24]

That’s why I think this line of discussion is getting off topic at this point. No offense to you. I enjoy your posts, as well as Bellyup’s.

It's a side note to abduction/hostage situations so it's normal to discuss it. I think everyone is trying to understand how she found the will to survive this ordeal, and whatever that was inside of her that never gave up hope is amazing. (not offended, just clarifying )

 

[Mom24]

Thank you... that's what we need to try and get at... it seems to be somewhat of a head scratcher if you ask me..

So Paul says they had the getaway car on a dashcam? Is that what he wrote?

 

[kebdal23]

I do care as well, however something had to have happened in that home. If the father feels any level of responsibility, I would say it's well founded. Both of his sons have committed crimes, personal crimes, and any person looking in has to wonder what in the world nurtured that kind of future behavior. Had it just been one child in the family, then it would be an anomaly, but to have two sons? Something happened in that home. Someone turned a blind eye at the very least.

I agree about the blind eye part, but just wanted to clarify on the older brother - from what I understand he had one charge of sexual contact with a 16 year old girl when he was 18 (this happens a lot) and the other charge was marijuana related. Neither one, IMO, is indicative of anything other than him being an immature teenage boy. Neither of those charges are anything compared to what JP has done. IMO, please correct me if my understanding of the older brother is wrong. He seems very supportive of the family and what his father is going through in pictures I've seen. He, IMO, is also a victim too - he will forever be known as the brother of monster JP.

 

[bellyup]

Trauma bonding is a term that is often used to describe an existing relationship that turns toxic. Jayme had no relationship whatsoever with JP prior to her abduction. JMO
People often stay in abusive relationships because of something called 'trauma bonding' — here are the signs it's happening to you

What is Trauma Bonding? | The Recovery Expert

"Usually trauma bonds occur in relationships involving inconsistent reinforcement, such as those with addicts and alcoholics or in domestic violence situations. Dysfunctional marriages also cause trauma bonds because there is always a time when things seem to be “normal.” Other types of relationships involving trauma bonds include cult-like religious organizations, kidnapping and hostage situations, those involving child abuse or incest, and unhealthy work environments."