Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

[Breezie]

Normally I'd agree, but in this case something had to happen in that home. Three children raised in the same environment and two of them were just bad seeds?

Closs family: Appreciate sympathy from suspect's father

“You can't blame the parents," Naiberg told The Associated Press. "A guy becomes 21 years old, and sometimes it's not how he was raised or anything."

 

[PommyMommy]

Jayme's grandfather, RN, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that he appreciates the gesture. Naiberg says "you can't blame the parents" for what their children do.
Source: Patterson's father drops note for Jayme Closs's family

 

[bellyup]

Please excuse me if this has been posted, but what is the next court date for JTP? What will occur at that point?
TIA

February 6th is the next court date. It should be a hearing in which he enters his plea. It's been said there may be more charges prior to that.

 

[24Roses]

Please excuse me if this has been posted, but what is the next court date for JTP? What will occur at that point?
TIA

February 6th is the next court date. I think that is when he will enter a plea.

 

[Mistermagoo]

I wonder if they even seen a

Profiling through statements and media accounts is done by experts and laypeople all the time (the FBI has a division dedicated entirely to that).

Respectfully, perhaps you mean diagnosing? I absolutely agree with that. No one can diagnose any psychological illness or personality disorder in JP based on the statement, the things he did or things posted here. That takes many many many hours of in person evaluation, history of behavior, etc. Even then it's pretty difficult when you are dealing with people that are excessively self servant and dishonest.

At best, anything said here is speculation as to what psychological profile JP most closely resembles. MOO

yes I did mean diagnosing and funny what you stated on your last line because that is something she always tells me.

 

[Noharg]

Jayme's grandfather, RN, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that he appreciates the gesture. Naiberg says "you can't blame the parents" for what their children do.
Source: Patterson's father drops note for Jayme Closs's family

The Closs family seems to be facing a tragic situation with grace, courage and intelligence.
JMO

 

[mcrazingwill]

Trauma bonding, at this point it feels like it should be added to the growing list of -what not to discuss.

I agree. I read this article this morning on the case and what this Dr. Dykstra opined really struck home to me. It's a good reminder.

‘We’re not entitled:’ Psychologist urges social media users to take a step back from Jayme Closs case

 

[24Roses]

Wow. I can not catch up at all. It seems like a new thread everyday. Some thoughts this morning: I don't think I will ever be able to read another criminal complaint ever again. I knew that Jayme knew her parents had been murdered, but to read what happened to her mom is terrible. And it breaks my heart to know she heard the police sirens while they were passing them. If only LE would of known... I just listened to the 911 call yesterday and that is one group of awesome people that helped her, including the dogs.

 

[MsBetsy]

Again, I already posted that as have others.
- He murdered her parents in front of her.
- He held her very life in his hands.
- She had no sense of safety aside whatever she could garner from him
- He had her removed from any sense of normalcy she'd ever known
- She was dependent on him for what food he gave her
- He used reward / punishment to entrap her under the bed.

You are free to disagree that Jayme experienced it or not. You are also free to mute me if you don't want to see discussion of it. No hard feelings. But it's my belief that in any case of prolonged abuse / especially with captivity there is trauma bonding taking place.

I think so too and as I have said before, I believe it is a natural and normal human response. It's a way to survive.

 

[Noharg]

February 6th is the next court date. I think that is when he will enter a plea.

Thank you. I will try to keep up better.

 

[oviedo]

You know something... that's a good theory. As another thought: they may not of wanted to have possibly spooked Patterson into murdering JC. It seems reasonable.

And I always wondered where the Sheriff's faith that JC was alive the whole time came from. IMO

 

[MyBelle]

He took the precaution of hiding the license plate if I'm understanding this, so did he also conceal the vehicle once he had her?

Maybe the family left behind a clunker when the driver moved off, and JP fixed up one as his crime car?

Or did he have another car or was this kind of passed down to him as the youngest? In sister's name correct? A female listed as red toy owner might not be on the top of an investigative list as might a 21 year old male.

I have several friends who live in Minnesota and they have clunkers which they use for winter driving. I have been told this is pretty common practice in that area.

I'd like to know who paid for the insurance on the Taurus and if PF was listed as a driver. Somebody was paying PF's daily/monthly expenses.

JMO

 

[tnith]

What is Trauma Bonding? | The Recovery Expert
"Usually trauma bonds occur in relationships involving inconsistent reinforcement, such as those with addicts and alcoholics or in domestic violence situations. Dysfunctional marriages also cause trauma bonds because there is always a time when things seem to be “normal.” Other types of relationships involving trauma bonds include cult-like religious organizations, kidnapping and hostage situations, those involving child abuse or incest, and unhealthy work environments."

I appreciate your stark honesty about dynamic under which these experience play out. As part of a spectrum ranging from what is commonly seen, all the way to what most will outright & angrily deny exists.
While some prefer to play things 'safe' and debate semantics, what you've posted is essential to understanding what has occurred here.

What is most fascinating, is the gleaming trail of breadcrumbs LE publicly placed for Jayme alone. Often we don't see this level of investment; focus on what she still had rather than banal reminders 'keep looking'.

Had JTP actually been intelligent in any capacity, he could have picked up on this; but instead appears utterly unaware of the meaning behind any coverage afforded to this case.

I asked her about this and she stated that first, you cannot profile anyone based on statements made to the police because they are not giving accurate accounts most of the time.

Snipped by me

Context of how an account comes to detectives, would be a large percentage of determining accuracy or relevance, one might hope?
Clearly whatever was being gathered throughout the investigation was not a driving force for public outreach here.

 

[24Roses]

Thank you. I will try to keep up better.

Noharg, I don't think there is really any way to keep up (not here on Websleuths anyway). I have had to skip over every thread since Jayme was found and then again when the criminal complaint was released. We just do the best we can.

 

[Tricia]

Hi Everyone,

We are not going to start a separate thread for Incel discussions. We have no proof yet that Incel has anything to do with the case.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[margarita25]

I agree. I read this article this morning on the case and what this Dr. Dykstra opined really struck home to me. It's a good reminder.

‘We’re not entitled:’ Psychologist urges social media users to take a step back from Jayme Closs case

Great article, thank you for posting. From the above link:

“"Social media has become the modern version of pointing and staring," said Dykstra.

He said constant speculation about what happened to the 13-year-old can be another form of victimization.

"These are real people, and we're not entitled to know all the answers," said Dykstra.“

 

[MyBelle]

I agree. I read this article this morning on the case and what this Dr. Dykstra opined really struck home to me. It's a good reminder.

‘We’re not entitled:’ Psychologist urges social media users to take a step back from Jayme Closs case

He said constant speculation about what happened to the 13-year-old can be another form of victimization.


"These are real people, and we're not entitled to know all the answers," said Dykstra.

I agree wholeheartedly and hope the psychological speculation about Jayme stops.

JMO

 

[Gardener1850]

Not sure if this was posted, very much worth the read regarding Patterson family. Imo
Father of Jake Patterson has a letter for Jayme Closs' family

I have mixed feelings about this. The father may really feel awful that his son did this and he may truly be sorry for the victims. But my first reactions is that PP should only make a public statement in the press expressing sympathy for the Closs family and Jayme and then leave the family alone. IIRC from court, the judge was clear that JTP was to have no contact with Jayme and JTP is also not to ask anyone else to contact her on his behalf. I'm not saying the father is doing that but a letter from the suspect's father could be taken that way, depending on the contents. If he has only good intentions and is as confused about the motivations of this crime as everyone else, then I imagine that JTP's father is going to eventually want to see his son in prison and ask him why he would do such a horrible thing. If the father also has contact with Jayme's family then the lines have the potential to become blurred on if the father is communicating his own thoughts or his son's when writing to Jayme/her family. MOO and I'm open to being completely off base on this. Maybe I'm too cynical but I wish he would not write any private letters to the family.

 

[margarita25]

“He assured Jayme will be OK, as long as she's given time, space and support from loved ones.

"It's amazing what people can recover from and go on," said Dykstra

‘We’re not entitled:’ Psychologist urges social media users to take a step back from Jayme Closs case

 

[enelram]

I do care as well, however something had to have happened in that home. If the father feels any level of responsibility, I would say it's well founded. Both of his sons have committed crimes, personal crimes, and any person looking in has to wonder what in the world nurtured that kind of future behavior. Had it just been one child in the family, then it would be an anomaly, but to have two sons? Something happened in that home. Someone turned a blind eye at the very least.

Very much agree with you. So often , after the crime, parents
have intense feelings- some may feel guilty that their behavior
may have caused the behavior of the son- but some may totally
absolve themselves of any responsibility. Sometimes sociopaths
raise sociopaths. Sometimes abusers raise future abusers.
Usually we see when studying these violent crimes, that families
indeed do play a vital role in how the child grows and matures.
Parents teach (or fail to teach) compassion, respect for law,
empathy, good citizenship, kindness and on and on.
It's not a stretch to believe these parents failed on so many levels.
And parents don't always treat each child the same. Parents
play favorites and therefore the children grow up differently.

But until we see the parents and the dynamics of the 'family',
we can only guess that it was not an Ozzie and Harriet household.