Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #40

[moonlessnight]

exactly. and the first 2 years is the crucial time for bonding. lack of bonding in those years results in a very limited ability to form bonds ever.

What this article on child psychopaths failed to relate is=
what was the child's life like before it was adopted.
Birth through 2 yrs. old, the baby is learning much about
his world- whether caretakers are kind and respond to helpless
baby's needs or neglectful and allow baby to cry in the crib.

Birth through 2 yrs, many neural pathways are growing (or not)
and forming based on the kind of attention and care baby
received. There is a direct correlation between a truly well
cared for baby and a neglected infant laying in a crib soothing
itself because no one in it's world cares. The correlation is in
how the brain develops with healthy neural pathways or not.
Babies in orphanages or hospital settings are emotionally
neglected. Left for hours in a crib trying to self sooth without
a nurturing mother to soothe them. So even by 2 yrs. old,
the baby's brain may be behind developmentally and may be
on it's way to becoming a maladjusted child.
My experience and mOO.

 

[kkdj]

Agree. This guy is a done dinner IMO. If "further" charges come down the road I really hope and pray he pleads guilty.

I really expect to see further charges.
I also expect him to feel proud of them.
He might want a trial just for that. Sick.

 

[smalltownguy2]

is this considered MSM? https://heavy.com/news/2019/01/jake-patterson-motive-why-thomas/

It states JP worked at Saputo Cheese for 2 days. It also says he went to the Closs home prior to quitting to attempt to kidnap JC but backed out. So, if he saw her at the bus stop on his way to work, he would have gone to kidnap her the same or next day if that timing is correct. That doesn't leave a lot of planning and preparing, except that he backed out the first time and took extra prep time. If he intended to kidnap her that first day or the day after he saw her, he may have impaired impulse control and a impaired cognitive function. Which is obvious and typical for a psychopath, but it insinuates that the original plan was much more impulsive and less planned.

That's not what the article says.

"Several days before quitting the cheese factory, and about a week to 1 1/2 weeks before he went through with the plan, he drove to the Closs home and noticed the lights were on and people were walking around so he decided not to do it then."

One and a half weeks would be 11 days ( Thursday the 4th) or 10 days (Friday the 5th) in the evening. My guess would be that he drove to the house Friday night 10/5 after failing to show up at work for his 3rd day. He instead stayed home and spent all day Friday planning the event, and was spooked when he saw the drive way full of cars. Then he came back a few days later and was spooked again when he saw lights on and movement. Finally, Sunday night the 14th into Monday the 15th he found the home quiet.

 

[zecats]

That’s the thing.

One moment these people were sleeping peacefully in their beds. In a matter of minutes they experienced the type of terror that cannot be captured in any horror movie.

What happened in that bathroom is just unimaginable.

The stuff of nightmares.

Such a violation of civilized human behavior, not even taking into account basic compassion and respect for rights of others. To be safe in our own homes is a basic right that I suppose we take for granted, until the nightmare becomes reality..and breaks down the door to inflict unimaginable horror. I cannot wrap my mind around what this poor family went through. There must be an inhuman gene present in people like JTP. IMO

 

[moonlessnight]

the night JP left the Closs property (7-10 days before he succeeded in abducting her) is the first time he attempted to abduct JC. He got scared off. So that was right after he quit the cheese factory. like the same or next day. which is about a day after he first saw her. supposedly.

That's not what the article says.

"Several days before quitting the cheese factory, and about a week to 1 1/2 weeks before he went through with the plan, he drove to the Closs home and noticed the lights were on and people were walking around so he decided not to do it then."

One and a half weeks would be 11 days ( Thursday the 4th) or 10 days (Friday the 5th) in the evening. My guess would be that he drove to the house Friday night 10/5 after failing to show up at work for his 3rd day. He instead stayed home and spent all day Friday planning the event, and was spooked when he saw the drive way full of cars. Then he came back a few days later and was spooked again when he saw lights on and movement. Finally, Sunday night the 14th into Monday the 15th he found the home quiet.

 

[PrairieWind]

is this considered MSM? https://heavy.com/news/2019/01/jake-patterson-motive-why-thomas/

It states JP worked at Saputo Cheese for 2 days. It also says he went to the Closs home "several days" prior to quitting that job to attempt to kidnap JC but backed out. So, if he saw her at the bus stop on his way to work, he would have gone to kidnap her the same or next day if that timing is correct. But several days before quitting would be before he started working there. Which contradicts that he first saw her on his way to that job.
Also That doesn't leave a lot of planning and preparing, except that he backed out the first time and took extra prep time. If he intended to kidnap her that first day or the day after he saw her, he may have impaired impulse control and a impaired cognitive function. Which is obvious and typical for a psychopath, but it insinuates that the original plan was much more impulsive and less planned.

sorry - editing for more clarity:
his claim that he saw James in the picture window as he came up the driveway/sidewalk doesn't jibe with what JC said - that her dog woke her up barking and she went to wake up her parents after noticing a car in the driveway. Was he lurking for a while in the yard, causing the dog to bark? JP did not get to the door until after James was woken up by JC and came downstairs.

He also did not make the modifications to his license plate or dome light until he was on is way to JC's house, which is not really advance planning. He had stolen a license plate from JC's yard on a previous attempt.

There is a lot of info missing from the timeline. He is not very bright and his idea of planning is extremely limited from this report.

edited for clarity

I would disagree a little bit. It is amazing he made his first attempt so quickly, but the fact that he recognized the situation wasn't right and was able to back out, and also back out a second time, actually shows pretty good impulse control. Very calm, which is perhaps even more scary.
I do agree that there is a lot of information missing.

 

[moonlessnight]

ok, they must have the timeline wrong, bc by several days after quitting Saputo cheese he had already tried to abduct JC the first time and backed out.

They misquoted the complaint. It actually states:

"The defendant stated that, several days after quitting Saputo Cheese..."

 

[moonlessnight]

this is what I'm getting at - he either scares off easily, or has good impulse control, or doesn't plan well, or is not impulsive. I am not buying into what he is presenting himself as, or into what he's claiming about how he went about the crime. What he claims is contradictory to his own actions and to JC's report. For someone who claims he would have shot anyone and everyone in the home to get to JC, he sure decided NOT to do exactly that on two occasions. But then he went ahead and did it finally. contradictions.

I would disagree a little bit. It is amazing he made his first attempt so quickly, but the fact that he recognized the situation wasn't right and was able to back out, and also back out a second time, actually shows pretty good impulse control. Very calm, which is perhaps even more scary.
I do agree that there is a lot of information missing.

 

[MassGuy]

Such a violation of civilized human behavior, not even taking into account basic compassion and respect for rights of others. To be safe in our own homes is a basic right that I suppose we take for granted, until the nightmare becomes reality..and breaks down the door to inflict unimaginable horror. I cannot wrap my mind around what this poor family went through. There must be an inhuman gene present in people like JTP. IMO

If you can’t feel empathy, you cannot put yourself in someone else’s shoes, not really.

He would have seen their terror, but he wouldn’t have cared. Not one bit.

You can’t commit a crime like this unless you are completely devoid of compassion.

This was about him and what he wanted, damned the cost to others.

 

[PrairieWind]

They misquoted the complaint. It actually states:

"The defendant stated that, several days after quitting Saputo Cheese..."

That is correct. I think it also gives us some insight as to WHY he quit the cheese factory. We all assumed it was just that he couldn't keep a job (and there still may be something to that). I think the real reason is that he was ready to carry out his plan to kidnap a girl, needed the time to prepare. He also knew he would be taking her back to Gordon, and not coming back. If he just never showed back up at the factory, or called in to quit the day AFTER the murders/kidnapping, that would have HUGE red flag on him. Was this actually conscious planning on his part? Who knows.

 

[UKslueth2018]

Thanks so much for your reply (and the replies before you)! I remembered the butterflies, so I got her a diamond painting kit that had a girl surrounded by butterflies. They’re my favorite thing to do when I’m feeling stressed, so hopefully she will enjoy it. It’s an excellent way to keep your mind occupied. I also got her a pretty journal with some different color journaling pens, a BIG comfy scarf (growing up in the northeast I know how cold winters can get. Plus, if she’s lost weight she’s probably extra cold) & a cute little ring that has “this too shall pass” engraved on it. I know it’s kind of a mish-mash of stuff, but I wanted each item to serve a purpose. Now all I have to worry about is if she will like any of it. Lol

That is so kind... I really hope acts like these restore her faith in humanity.. Sorry I am late replying to this.. Am catching up on thread and I go from last read not backwards xx

 

[human]

No, they're not. Wisconsin has date restrictions for when you are allowed to use tire chains. They also have restrictions on the size of the chains and the kinds of vehicles that are allowed to use them. They are not "illegal", though.

347.45  Tire equipment.

No person may operate on a highway any motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, recreational vehicle, or mobile home having any metal tire in contact with the roadway, except that tire chains of reasonable proportions may be used when required for safety because of snow, ice or other conditions tending to cause a vehicle to skid, and except as provided in sub

(2) No person shall operate on a highway any vehicle, including farm tractors, implements of husbandry, animal-drawn vehicles and road machinery, if such vehicle has on the periphery of any of its tires any block, stud, flange, cleat, spike or other protuberance of any material other than rubber which projects beyond the tread of the traction surface of the tire, except that:
(a) Farm tractors, implements of husbandry, bicycles, animal-drawn vehicles, and road machinery may be operated with metal tires or tires having protuberances that will not injure the highway.
(b) Tire chains of reasonable proportions may be used on any vehicle when required for safety because of snow, ice or other conditions tending to cause a vehicle to skid.
347.45(2)(c)(c) A pneumatic tire may have embedded in it wire or wire coils for improving traction on ice and snow, but such tire shall be so constructed that the percentage of wire or wire coils in contact with the roadway does not exceed, after the first 1,000 miles of use or operation, 5 percent of the total tire area in contact with the roadway. During the first 1,000 miles of use or operation of any such tire the wire or wire coils in contact with the roadway shall not exceed 20 percent of the total tire area in contact with the roadway. Tires equipped with tungsten carbide studs shall be limited in usage and design as follows:
1. The department shall, by rule, designate the times of year during which any type of tire described in this paragraph may be used.
2. Such tires may be used only on authorized emergency vehicles, school buses, vehicles used to deliver mail and automobiles with out-of-state registrations and then only if such automobile is in the course of passing through this state for a period of not more than 30 days.

Wisconsin Legislature: 347.45

Here is more of an explanation. You cannot be driving on the road surface with chains. Highways are cleared pretty quickly of snow and ice.

Dirt roads like I lived on usually never get down to the road surface, but it you deive in Northern Wisconsin you will see that the highways are down to the road surface. Chains are rarely ok on a highway or city street.

Everything You Need to Know About Chain Laws

 

[moonlessnight]

I agree. and I also think that his job for 2 days 3 years ago at Jennie O Turkey is important. Maybe he did this to someone else or tried to 3 years ago. The similarities are erie. I think the Closses as a family became known to him at that time. MOO. I think he uses jobs to identify potential victims.

That is correct. I think it also gives us some insight as to WHY he quit the cheese factory. We all assumed it was just that he couldn't keep a job (and there still may be something to that). I think the real reason is that he was ready to carry out his plan to kidnap a girl, needed the time to prepare. He also knew he would be taking her back to Gordon, and not coming back. If he just never showed back up at the factory, or called in to quit the day AFTER the murders/kidnapping, that would have HUGE red flag on him. Was this actually conscious planning on his part? Who knows.

 

[PrairieWind]

I agree. and I also think that his job for 2 days 3 years ago at Jennie O Turkey is important. Maybe he did this to someone else or tried to 3 years ago. The similarities are erie. I think the Closses as a family became known to him at that time. MOO.

That is an interesting thought. If he quit the cheese factory because he was ready to commit his crime, and needed a couple days between the events, could he have possibly quit Jeannie O for a similar reason?

 

[kkdj]

That is correct. I think it also gives us some insight as to WHY he quit the cheese factory. We all assumed it was just that he couldn't keep a job (and there still may be something to that). I think the real reason is that he was ready to carry out his plan to kidnap a girl, needed the time to prepare. He also knew he would be taking her back to Gordon, and not coming back. If he just never showed back up at the factory, or called in to quit the day AFTER the murders/kidnapping, that would have HUGE red flag on him. Was this actually conscious planning on his part? Who knows.

BBM
Then it might be important to find out if any other young girls were missing when he quit Jenni-O or any other job he held for a short period.

 

[zecats]

If you can’t feel empathy, you cannot put yourself in someone else’s shoes, not really.

He would have seen their terror, but he wouldn’t have cared. Not one bit.

You can’t commit a crime like this unless you are completely devoid of compassion.

This was about him and what he wanted, damned the cost to others.

I get it believe me. I understand lack of empathy and lack of compassion and complete selfishness / narcissism. We all have seen it elsewhere on this forum for sure. In real life too, in my case being married to a psychologist, who shares case details (no names) with me. It still blows my mind.

But this case...I don't know. It goes way above and beyond mind-blowing. It is representative of utter emptiness. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

That is an interesting thought. If he quit the cheese factory because he was ready to commit his crime, and needed a couple days between the events, could he have possibly quit Jeannie O for a similar reason?

What about the Marines though? The only reason he didn’t quit after a day or two, is because it doesn’t work like that.

His employment history forms a pattern, one that shows incredible immaturity and issues with authority.

I think this is a direct reflection of him, and not anything to do with prior plots.

 

[ab01]

I’m curious about his jobs being so far from the cabin where JC was held captive. Was jtp commuting 1 1/2 each way for a minimum wage job? Or was he living somewhere else before he decided to abduct JC. I’m curious weather jtp was in fact living in the cabin after all his family had left? Or had it become more of a vacation cabin/ secondary residence for the PP family. I think i would not be surprised if jtp moved into the cabin as he was planning the abduction under the ruse to his father that he would be fixing it up in exchange for staying there. Moo

 

[MassGuy]

I get it believe me. I understand lack of empathy and lack of compassion and complete selfishness / narcissism. We all have seen it elsewhere on this forum for sure. In real life too, in my case being married to a psychologist, who shares case details (no names) with me. It still blows my mind.

But this case...I don't know. It goes way above and beyond mind-blowing. It is representative of utter emptiness. IMO

I know what you mean, but look no further than the Watts case, or countless other murders for that matter.

It may take a different form, but this “emptiness” is inherent in a lot of crimes.

I agree though, the terror that these people felt makes this crime especially horiffic.

 

[Evinrude]

this is what I'm getting at - he either scares off easily, or has good impulse control, or doesn't plan well, or is not impulsive. I am not buying into what he is presenting himself as, or into what he's claiming about how he went about the crime. What he claims is contradictory to his own actions and to JC's report. For someone who claims he would have shot anyone and everyone in the home to get to JC, he sure decided NOT to do exactly that on two occasions. But then he went ahead and did it finally. contradictions.

I would imagine he left the Closs residence obeying the speed limit. He also gave LE due regard as they sped by him. That to me is control and calmness.
That is just crazy.