Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #40

[thesnowflakesparkles]

Thanks ... doesn’t give sizes... in unit / squad... didn’t know if there was average no sectioned off into after arrival ... 30-50... I think you’d notice him...

One of 500 and 8 drop out as non compatible you might not bat an eye..

It does say "Patterson was one of 34,581 people sent to Marine recruit training in 2015 and he was one of 2,295 discharged before graduation." Which means on average just under seven percent of those in training don't make it through. I am actually surprised it is that low.

 

[MassGuy]

Thanks... u had 30 in your platoon..
Did anyone flame out or get booted?? Did u remember them??

Yup, it was somewhere between 30-35. It did vary, as people were added as they came back from injury, and lost to injury and illness (dropped back).

I encountered people being processed out for mental issues, while I was recovering from a staph infection in a medical holding platoon.

I returned to training, but never saw them again.

I don’t recall anyone flaming out from my training platoon, but it may have happened and I just don’t remember (it’s been several years).

My sense is that these people are identified pretty quickly. It takes time to actually go through the process of being sent home, so I think he spent most of his time in one of these medical platoons.

He probably went through very little training, a week or two at most.

 

[MassGuy]

At what point can you leave the base? At 5 weeks would he have ever been able to leave the base?

No. He would have been stuck on base for those entire 5 weeks.

Once he was discharged, he would have been a free man.

 

[MsBetsy]

I still don't understand if he wanted to take JLC, he saw her, she was his objective, why wouldn't he have prepared to take care of her? Shampoo and soap are cheap and easily bought. His sisters clothes must have been far too large for her. And he made her hide under a bed and put music on to muffle any noise she made. Then he left for her for 12 hours at Christmas. All of that would point to impulsive behavior, not planning well. But then he plans, or so he says, minute details of the home invasion and abduction and even puts it on hold a couple of times because things are "right" or "perfect", so he's not impulsive about that. It makes me wonder if the objective was JLC or was it to terrorize a town by a horrific abduction and then disappearance of a child? and if so, why Barron? Why not Gordon? Or Haugen? Or even Superior?
ETA, did he just want to be famous? He had to know this was international news, is that what he was looking for? Is that the motivation his atty's have been promising to tell us?

I don't think his goal was to terrorize the town or become famous. I doubt he thought that far ahead. I don't think he wanted to get caught.
We don't really know if he "prepared" to take care of her or not. He probably just planned to "keep" her. I wouldn't think he would consider shampoo a priority, (he was bald after all) and he likely didn't care if his sister's clothes fit her. He probably thought all he needed was enough food to keep her alive.
He knew how to control her. He didn't need to come up with a better way to restrain her or lock her in a room somehow because he believed she feared him enough to obey him. Plus he likely thought it was a good way to "test" her to make sure he could trust her.
I'm not sure how much planning is required to keep a prisoner since he probably figured he needed the bare minimum and didn't care about meeting any of her needs. That would take some compassion. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe he can only kill strangers. It does seem odd that the day he applied for a job, she took the chance to escape. Someone else made a good point, though, that his job stints were only a couple of days so maybe it didn't mean as much as I first thought.

I bet she was thinking about how to escape from day one. I would think that very thought was what kept her going day after day. Imo

 

[Mom24]

Psychopaths learn to be organized killers by killing and improving what might have almost failed before. He apparently was caught after he first killed, thus the end to the learning curve. Thank goodness.

A BIG part of the mindset is the fantasizing and planning of " the perfect crime". The psychopath thinks he is smartest person on earth. That he is superhuman.
A Psychopath has no conception that a 13 year old girl NEEDS anything or anyone, except him. Just him. Her world was narrowed to a portion of a house for 3 months, parts of that spent in a 2 1/2 clearance space BY FORCE.
He knew that HE would be uncomfortable under his own bed, but psychopaths do not have the ability to understand her discomfort. He understands it is TORTURE, but not the extremely painful feelings of being tortured. Her torture was part of his fantasy game.

The reason he did not buy any shampoo, and likely no basic personal care items for Jayme is that to the psychopath, they SEE other people but they do not RECOGNIZE that others have the SAME NEEDS, HURTS,WANTS, PHYSICAL HUNGER, and so on THAT THEY HAVE.

PEOPLE ARE OBJECTS.. MOST PSYCHOPATHS WILL PLAY WITH A VICTIM LIKE SOMEONE PULLING WINGS OFF A BUTTERFLY. ( Stalking, weird messaging, peeping and maybe photographs through a window. After the victim is in his possession, it is common to find survivors or bodies with overt signs of torture, burning hair or body part, cutting hair off a female, making a female thinner by not feeding her well for various reasons, leaving in urine and fecal material.

I am speaking in general and not about Jayme specifically, of course except for why he did not buy her shampoo. I'm so very happily surprised she wasn't almost starved to death with open wounds from malnutrition and having to lie on the floor underneath a child's twin sized bed for hours and hours at a time.

Also, FTR, I do not, in any way, believe he played Monopoly with her, or acknowledged the holidays with her except that maybe he told her it was Thanksgiving, then Christmas, and no one cared about her.
Depersonalization is achieved by a variety of means, but misuse of two major holidays with a girl who has just seen the dude murder her parents would be diabolical and so incredibly SADISTIC.

I think he's very very high on the SADISM scale. I also see high amounts of depersonalization, which is a major trait of ASPD violent men.

The pay off is different and so is the treatment of the object. That makes sense. However, it made her daily existence even more tenuous because he could never empathize or bond with her, meaning at any moment when he's not gratified, she's no longer necessary. Okay, going to grab my woobie for some comfort, because I thought the image of DC bear hugging JLC was heartbreaking enough. Your post really brings home those 88 days and should be used in that courtroom to elicit from those jurors what you just elicited in me. And then when you re-read it, remember this was a 13 year old child and what each of us was doing at that age, what our processing of such a situation would have been like.

 

[Mom24]

I bet she was thinking about how to escape from day one. I would think that very thought was what kept her going day after day. Imo

Her survival skills in this situation were intense. I'm sure she never forgot who she was and that's an inner strength and fortitude that's simply amazing.

 

[MassGuy]

I bet she was thinking about how to escape from day one. I would think that very thought was what kept her going day after day. Imo

Yeah. She would have been too scared to do it right away, but over time she would have become more comfortable with the idea.

He apparently thought she had made an effort to escape a couple times, and I’ll bet he was right about this.

It would have been a tentative process at first, probably moving things out of the way and contemplating making a run for it.

Eventually she saw an opportunity to go the distance.

I’d love to know how this came about, and what changed.

 

[Blueberry2720]

Lest we forget . . .

Today marks the 1 week anniversary of Jayme's escape and return to freedom.

 

[SeekingJana]

The pay off is different and so is the treatment of the object. That makes sense. However, it made her daily existence even more tenuous because he could never empathize or bond with her, meaning at any moment when he's not gratified, she's no longer necessary. Okay, going to grab my woobie for some comfort, because I thought the image of DC bear hugging JLC was heartbreaking enough. Your post really brings home those 88 days and should be used in that courtroom to elicit from those jurors what you just elicited in me. And then when you re-read it, remember this was a 13 year old child and what each of us was doing at that age, what our processing of such a situation would have been like.

Sweet Mom24. I toned the narrative of what a psychopath does and thinks WAY WAY down. I'm glad I did, as I'm so used to the facts that I get clinical about what they think about other people, thus are so happy to torture one of us.
I have great respect for each of you and a special protectiveness towards dear Jayme.
I hope she is resting well in her comfy bed with Molly tonight. I hope she is eating well, too.

 

[zecats]

I bet she was thinking about how to escape from day one. I would think that very thought was what kept her going day after day. Imo

Exactly this. I would expect that she did as well. It took what must have seemed an eternity to her, but she finally got away.

 

[Mom24]

No. He would have been stuck on base for those entire 5 weeks.

Once he was discharged, he would have been a free man.

Isn't "character issues" a term used for early sep due to petty criminal behavior?

 

[MsBetsy]

Psychopaths learn to be organized killers by killing and improving what might have almost failed before. He apparently was caught after he first killed, thus the end to the learning curve. Thank goodness.

A BIG part of the mindset is the fantasizing and planning of " the perfect crime". The psychopath thinks he is smartest person on earth. That he is superhuman.
A Psychopath has no conception that a 13 year old girl NEEDS anything or anyone, except him. Just him. Her world was narrowed to a portion of a house for 3 months, parts of that spent in a 2 1/2 clearance space BY FORCE.
He knew that HE would be uncomfortable under his own bed, but psychopaths do not have the ability to understand her discomfort. He understands it is TORTURE, but not the extremely painful feelings of being tortured. Her torture was part of his fantasy game.

The reason he did not buy any shampoo, and likely no basic personal care items for Jayme is that to the psychopath, they SEE other people but they do not RECOGNIZE that others have the SAME NEEDS, HURTS,WANTS, PHYSICAL HUNGER, and so on THAT THEY HAVE.

PEOPLE ARE OBJECTS.. MOST PSYCHOPATHS WILL PLAY WITH A VICTIM LIKE SOMEONE PULLING WINGS OFF A BUTTERFLY. ( Stalking, weird messaging, peeping and maybe photographs through a window. After the victim is in his possession, it is common to find survivors or bodies with overt signs of torture, burning hair or body part, cutting hair off a female, making a female thinner by not feeding her well for various reasons, leaving in urine and fecal material.

I am speaking in general and not about Jayme specifically, of course except for why he did not buy her shampoo. I'm so very happily surprised she wasn't almost starved to death with open wounds from malnutrition and having to lie on the floor underneath a child's twin sized bed for hours and hours at a time.

Also, FTR, I do not, in any way, believe he played Monopoly with her, or acknowledged the holidays with her except that maybe he told her it was Thanksgiving, then Christmas, and no one cared about her.
Depersonalization is achieved by a variety of means, but misuse of two major holidays with a girl who has just seen the dude murder her parents would be diabolical and so incredibly SADISTIC.

I think he's very very high on the SADISM scale. I also see high amounts of depersonalization, which is a major trait of ASPD violent men.

Yes, whatever comforts he afforded her was likely to suit his own needs, rather than concern for her well-being.
He may have been planning to kidnap someone else. He said after two weeks he was sure he had gotten away with it. If he hadn't been caught he might have been the next Ariel Castro for all we know. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Her survival skills in this situation were intense. I'm sure she never forgot who she was and that's an inner strength and fortitude that's simply amazing.

Yes, especially after witnessing her parents being murdered. Some would give up and would not have the will or strength to escape like she did. Imo

 

[MassGuy]

Isn't "character issues" a term used for early sep due to petty criminal behavior?

His discharge was because the “character of his service was incongruent with Marine Corps’ expectations and standards.”

That’s incredibly vague, and admittedly, I’m not an expert in this sort of thing (I didn’t get kicked out).

From my understanding, this could be a result of an unwillingness to train, failure to follow instructions, or just unsettling or bizarrre behavior.

We know that he has a poor work history (huge understatement), so my guess is that he couldn’t handle authority, and didn’t do what he was told.

All day, every day, consists of you following orders. You don’t do anything without first being told to. From waking up, to brushing your teeth, to eating.

It’s the exact opposite of what he would be willing to do.

 

[mtnlites]

Something we've talked about a lot of on here...

‘We’re not entitled:’ Psychologist urges social media users to take a step back from Jayme Closs case

Before going online to read or comment on another news article about the Jayme Closs kidnapping, Dr. Steven Dykstra urged people to take a step back.

"Social media has become the modern version of pointing and staring," said Dykstra.

He said constant speculation about what happened to the 13-year-old can be another form of victimization.

"These are real people, and we're not entitled to know all the answers," said Dykstra.

 

[ab01]

Speaking of the will to survive, I’m not sure every teenager who had just witnessed their parents brutally murdered would have had the same determination to survive the hell she was likely put thru! I think a lot can be said about the great relationships jc had with her extended family for her hope of seeing them again. That’s a credit to the awesome parents she had and I am sure they are extremely proud of her! It’s amazing how great the power of hope can be! I think she will have a very bright future!

 

[Warwick7]

Psychopaths learn to be organized killers by killing and improving what might have almost failed before. He apparently was caught after he first killed, thus the end to the learning curve. Thank goodness.

A BIG part of the mindset is the fantasizing and planning of " the perfect crime". The psychopath thinks he is smartest person on earth. That he is superhuman.
A Psychopath has no conception that a 13 year old girl NEEDS anything or anyone, except him. Just him. Her world was narrowed to a portion of a house for 3 months, parts of that spent in a 2 1/2 clearance space BY FORCE.
He knew that HE would be uncomfortable under his own bed, but psychopaths do not have the ability to understand her discomfort. He understands it is TORTURE, but not the extremely painful feelings of being tortured. Her torture was part of his fantasy game.

The reason he did not buy any shampoo, and likely no basic personal care items for Jayme is that to the psychopath, they SEE other people but they do not RECOGNIZE that others have the SAME NEEDS, HURTS,WANTS, PHYSICAL HUNGER, and so on THAT THEY HAVE.

PEOPLE ARE OBJECTS.. MOST PSYCHOPATHS WILL PLAY WITH A VICTIM LIKE SOMEONE PULLING WINGS OFF A BUTTERFLY. ( Stalking, weird messaging, peeping and maybe photographs through a window. After the victim is in his possession, it is common to find survivors or bodies with overt signs of torture, burning hair or body part, cutting hair off a female, making a female thinner by not feeding her well for various reasons, leaving in urine and fecal material.

I am speaking in general and not about Jayme specifically, of course except for why he did not buy her shampoo. I'm so very happily surprised she wasn't almost starved to death with open wounds from malnutrition and having to lie on the floor underneath a child's twin sized bed for hours and hours at a time.

Also, FTR, I do not, in any way, believe he played Monopoly with her, or acknowledged the holidays with her except that maybe he told her it was Thanksgiving, then Christmas, and no one cared about her.
Depersonalization is achieved by a variety of means, but misuse of two major holidays with a girl who has just seen the dude murder her parents would be diabolical and so incredibly SADISTIC.

I think he's very very high on the SADISM scale. I also see high amounts of depersonalization, which is a major trait of ASPD violent men.

Good post! Also I thought someone posted a link/quote saying JC did not even know Christmas came and went.

 

[MsMarple]

Thank God I missed most of this discussion but you're completely right.

The job of a 911 operator is to keep the person on the phone calm so they can provide clear and calm information to the LE officers who arrive on the scene. They will often ask what seem to be mundane, unimportant questions because while you are giving your name, address, birthdate, etc., you are physically calming down from a panicked state and you will be more likely to provide useful information quickly to police.

They will immediately send LE over and then try to keep you calm on the line. That's what they are trained to do and it has a purpose. If you are trying to recall factual information to help the 911 operator, you aren't screaming, or crying, or panicking, or out of breath - you are taking calm breaths and answering questions.

I'm afraid I'm never going to catch up on this thread so I'm jumping in to say I totally agree and from the 911 transcript that appears to be exactly what the dispatcher was doing.
Transcript Of 911 Call Following Jayme Closs’ Escape

And I apologize if this has been posted already but I was concerned after reading this article:

Authorities in western Wisconsin say they are investigating reports of hacked Facebook accounts setting up crowdfunding pages for Jake Patterson, the man accused of kidnapping Jayme Closs and killing her parents.
...
The Douglas County Sheriff’s Office says the hacked account of one girl from Gordon, Wisconsin, where Patterson kept Closs in a run-down cabin, is of particular concern, as the girl is now receiving online threats.

Investigation Underway Following Reports Of Hacked Accounts Posting GoFundMe Pages For Jake Patterson
WTH is wrong with people? To victimize yet another innocent girl by hacking her FB page - why, because she lives in Patterson's town? I'm glad that LE is investigating and are prepared to prosecute the people responsible. SMDH!!

 

[Mom24]

His discharge was because the “character of his service was incongruent with Marine Corps’ expectations and standards.”

That’s incredibly vague, and admittedly, I’m not an expert in this sort of thing (I didn’t get kicked out).

From my understanding, this could be a result of an unwillingness to train, failure to follow instructions, or just unsettling or bizarrre behavior.

We know that he has a poor work history (huge understatement), so my guess is that he couldn’t handle authority, and didn’t do what he was told.

All day, every day, consists of you following orders. You don’t do anything without first being told to. From waking up, to brushing your teeth, to eating.

It’s the exact opposite of what he would be willing to do.

Makes you appreciate what a hellish existence his life will be behind bars for him.