Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #40

[tmar]

I have family member with homicidal schizophrenia... He has the state intervening now with shots every other day and state workers visiting. (After years in and out of mental wards) In the early onset there was a program through the army that before they are 19, if they get in the army will put them through a training program and then when released they will keep in contact and keep them on course or intervene.( couldn't get the other parent to sign on) FYI been thru hell n back...scary sad stuff ... No help until the police judges and hospitals all where sick of it too. That's was how it went for me for years. I thought death or prison and not sure for who? When? Jmo smh

Thank goodness your family member is treated, and routinely checked.
This must have been so stressful for you for years.
I hope now, 'life' for all involved is more peaceful and safer.

 

[human]

Wow, that’s a really good thought. Pretty much every station does news updates.

That would have probably been a huge morale boost.

Excellent point.

I think that is why she said, “I am Jayme Closs.” It makes sense that she may have heard about herself on the radio.

 

[human]

I think there were 9-11 trained people posting on here before .

I have a friend who has a relative who just completed her 9-11 operator training.It was one uear and included ride alongs with the police to see how it all works.

The social worker was CPS so I am sure she has personally handled dangerous and tragic situations. She knew what to do.

The other woman was a middle school teacher. I am sure she has dealt with difficult situations. Teachers are trained how to deal with situations calmly.

Probalby neither had the situation with a killer before, though.

Can you imagine walking down that road for 8 mins knowing that you may be meeting a killer? Incredible courage on Jeanne’s part.

The reason that Jayme had shoes on the wrong feet is that is the way to keep huge shoes on your feet. Try it and see.

I cannot imagine walking on the icy road with little clothing and giant shoes trying to escape a killer.

I am against the death penalty but it is tough in this case, Of what use is he in this world?

 

[Past Mortem]

I think there were 9-11 trained people posting on here before .

I have a friend who has a relative who just completed her 9-11 operator training.It was one uear and included ride alongs with the police to see how it all works.

The social worker was CPS so I am sure she has personally handled dangerous and tragic situations. She knew what to do.

The other woman was a middle school teacher. I am sure she has dealt with difficult situations. Teachers are trained how to deal with situations calmly.

Probalby neither had the situation with a killer before, though.

Can you imagine walking down that road for 8 mins knowing that you may be meeting a killer? Incredible courage on Jeanne’s part.

The reason that Jayme had shoes on the wrong feet is that is the way to keep huge shoes on your feet. Try it and see.

I cannot imagine walking on the icy road with little clothing and giant shoes trying to escape a killer.

I am against the death penalty but it is tough in this case, Of what use is he in this world?

I'm in Australia so no death penalty here, but I'm still against it.

Two reasons:

1. There are too many cases for my likings where innocent people are found guilty and years down the track everyone realises the mistake

2. I actually think the death penalty is too good for them. I think they should be locked away for life. And life meaning actual LIFE.

I personally think Australia is too light on our scum of the earth murderers and rapists. Life is usually only 20 years over here and they often get out earlier with "good behaviour" (N.B. this varies from state to state over here, but it's very rare they get longer than 20 yrs). Their victims don't have the chance to start over in 20 years so why should they?

I don't think JP should get the death penalty, I think he should be put in general population of jail for the rest of his days and let the combination of the other prisoners and the infamy of the case play its course.

 

[Rosiebones]

Yes, he told her he was going to be gone for 4-6 hours but he wasn't actually gone that long. Why did he return so soon? It's certainly possible his mistake was telling her he was leaving and for how long, but I wonder if there was something else he forgot? Did he change his mind and return sooner? Or was he testing her on that particular day when he returned less than 30 minutes later? I feel like the 4-6 hours might have been a lie on his part-- either that or he told her that by mistake and then realized after leaving the house he should not have told her that.

I also wonder about Jayme being able to find and put on his shoes. Perhaps other times he left he did not leave any shoes out where she could find them easily. Being barefoot in a snowy wooded area and not knowing how far it was to the nearest house would have made it more difficult for Jayme to leave. That she had the presence of mind to immediately get out from under the bed when he was gone, find shoes and then leave as quickly as possible to find help on that particular day is amazing. MOO.

It seems though that he wouldn't drive away out of sight if he was testing her because he risked the result that occurred, that she would find refuge somewhere where he couldn't recover her. Seems like he would sit in his car at the end of the driveway and wait and intercept her if testing her was the point.

 

[TheVic]

It seems though that he wouldn't drive away out of sight if he was testing her because he risked the result that occurred, that she would find refuge somewhere where he couldn't recover her. Seems like he would sit in his car at the end of the driveway and wait and intercept her if testing her was the point.

It is somewhat surprising that he meticulously committed the previous crimes, yet left her in the home without being tied up and told her he'd be gone a while. She is pretty smart though. She may have had him convinced that he could trust her.

 

[Rosiebones]

I’m almost tempted to start-up gravel chat (for old time’s sake).

Or a side by side out the back through the woods to the railroad track. LOL

 

[Past Mortem]

Yes, he told her he was going to be gone for 4-6 hours but he wasn't actually gone that long. Why did he return so soon? It's certainly possible his mistake was telling her he was leaving and for how long, but I wonder if there was something else he forgot? Did he change his mind and return sooner? Or was he testing her on that particular day when he returned less than 30 minutes later? I feel like the 4-6 hours might have been a lie on his part-- either that or he told her that by mistake and then realized after leaving the house he should not have told her that.

I also wonder about Jayme being able to find and put on his shoes. Perhaps other times he left he did not leave any shoes out where she could find them easily. Being barefoot in a snowy wooded area and not knowing how far it was to the nearest house would have made it more difficult for Jayme to leave. That she had the presence of mind to immediately get out from under the bed when he was gone, find shoes and then leave as quickly as possible to find help on that particular day is amazing. MOO.

Can someone please clarify where JP returning sooner then he stated has come from? I'm sure its from Jayme herself, but has it been confirmed by LE or media? Or was it just what JN or KK said on the 911 call?

I ask this because I believe in the complaint Jayme said after he took her JP drove with her in the boot for what she believed was 2 hours, however Barron-Gordon if I'm correct is only 1 hr 4 min (not a huge difference in the scheme of things I know). My thought is in such a stressful situation, maybe Jayme's sense of time isn't as clear as it would be normally.

And do we know if Jayme escaped as soon as JP left the house or did she wait awhile? Has this been stated anywhere? Because if she waited awhile after he left then escaped maybe she actually waited longer than she is aware. I can't even imagine how slow time goes in that hell hole while trapped under a disgusting bed wondering every day if it's your last.

I still don't think this would fully explain the timeline JP provided Jayme, but it MIGHT possibly make the time he was out of the house that day a little longer and therefore stop us all reading into it when its potentially a misjudgment. To be honest, I really don't think this guy is intelligent enough to set a trap for her to see if she would try to escape. I also don't think he could be bothered. As far as he was concerned his job was done and he had his prized possession. I mean come on, this guy moved his gun away from the door after a fortnight because he thought he had gotten away with it. Obviously not a lover of true crime!

And on the shoes... I live in a very warm climate so have no idea if it's just second nature in WI to grab shoes before leaving the house in January, but I just can't comprehend how she was able to be that clear of mind in that moment to be thinking about the consequences on her body if she left without shoes. What an amazing young woman! I couldn't even think to take my umbrella this morning when it was clearly going to rain and I'm a 30 yr old woman with no current stresses!

 

[Mimi in London]

And on the shoes... I live in a very warm climate so have no idea if it's just second nature in WI to grab shoes before leaving the house in January, but I just can't comprehend how she was able to be that clear of mind in that moment to be thinking about the consequences on her body if she left without shoes. What an amazing young woman! I couldn't even think to take my umbrella this morning when it was clearly going to rain and I'm a 30 yr old woman with no current stresses!

ETA RSBM for brevity

Ha! I’d be the same re. the umbrella. But yes, it would be second nature to someone in a cold climate to put on shoes. She wouldn’t have got far, in that weather, without shoes.

 

[Ragnarok]

Can someone please clarify where JP returning sooner then he stated has come from? I'm sure its from Jayme herself, but has it been confirmed by LE or media? Or was it just what JN or KK said on the 911 call?

I ask this because I believe in the complaint Jayme said after he took her JP drove with her in the boot for what she believed was 2 hours, however Barron-Gordon if I'm correct is only 1 hr 4 min (not a huge difference in the scheme of things I know). My thought is in such a stressful situation, maybe Jayme's sense of time isn't as clear as it would be normally.

And do we know if Jayme escaped as soon as JP left the house or did she wait awhile? Has this been stated anywhere? Because if she waited awhile after he left then escaped maybe she actually waited longer than she is aware. I can't even imagine how slow time goes in that hell hole while trapped under a disgusting bed wondering every day if it's your last.

I still don't think this would fully explain the timeline JP provided Jayme, but it MIGHT possibly make the time he was out of the house that day a little longer and therefore stop us all reading into it when its potentially a misjudgment. To be honest, I really don't think this guy is intelligent enough to set a trap for her to see if she would try to escape. I also don't think he could be bothered. As far as he was concerned his job was done and he had his prized possession. I mean come on, this guy moved his gun away from the door after a fortnight because he thought he had gotten away with it. Obviously not a lover of true crime!

And on the shoes... I live in a very warm climate so have no idea if it's just second nature in WI to grab shoes before leaving the house in January, but I just can't comprehend how she was able to be that clear of mind in that moment to be thinking about the consequences on her body if she left without shoes. What an amazing young woman! I couldn't even think to take my umbrella this morning when it was clearly going to rain and I'm a 30 yr old woman with no current stresses!

Without a time device Jayme can only guess/estimate how long she was in the trunk or under the bed.

Note the time then lay down in a restricted/confined area and when you think an hour or any selected period of time has passed; come out and figure how long you were self isolated.

 

[MsJosie]

I am sure he was testing her on many occasions to see if she would run. She waited until the right time to leave. The shoes...he probably hid hers to keep her from running or disposed of them after the crime because of ‘crime residue.’ He probably had shoes laying about, saw them, and she knew she needed them to walk in the area....rocks, dirts, twigs etc. But by wearing his shoes, she had his DNA!

 

[Past Mortem]

Without a time device Jayme can only guess/estimate how long she was in the trunk or under the bed.

Note the time then lay down in a restricted/confined area and when you think an hour or any selected period of time has passed; come out and figure how long you were self isolated.

Exactly my point. So we could all be going around in circles regarding how long he said he'd be out of the house compared to how long he actually was and trying to read into something that's not even there.

 

[TheVic]

I am sure he was testing her on many occasions to see if she would run. She waited until the right time to leave. The shoes...he probably hid hers to keep her from running or disposed of them after the crime because of ‘crime residue.’ He probably had shoes laying about, saw them, and she knew she needed them to walk in the area....rocks, dirts, twigs etc. But by wearing his shoes, she had his DNA!

She may not have had shoes as she was abducted after she had gone to bed for the night.

 

[enelram]

This is an amazing article, and pretty much sums up what I have always thought as a teacher, some kids are hard wired to be psychopaths. Even in a wonderful home environment.

The article discusses that rewards are better than punishment. The problem is that these kids are so darn manipulative, they manage to behave badly and get positive reinforcement just for acting normally.

What do you do when a child like this is identified at age 12? Programs like this one are few and far between.

What this article on child psychopaths failed to relate is=
what was the child's life like before it was adopted.
Birth through 2 yrs. old, the baby is learning much about
his world- whether caretakers are kind and respond to helpless
baby's needs or neglectful and allow baby to cry in the crib.

Birth through 2 yrs, many neural pathways are growing (or not)
and forming based on the kind of attention and care baby
received. There is a direct correlation between a truly well
cared for baby and a neglected infant laying in a crib soothing
itself because no one in it's world cares. The correlation is in
how the brain develops with healthy neural pathways or not.
Babies in orphanages or hospital settings are emotionally
neglected. Left for hours in a crib trying to self sooth without
a nurturing mother to soothe them. So even by 2 yrs. old,
the baby's brain may be behind developmentally and may be
on it's way to becoming a maladjusted child.
My experience and mOO.

 

[Gracie55]

ETA RSBM for brevity

Ha! I’d be the same re. the umbrella. But yes, it would be second nature to someone in a cold climate to put on shoes. She wouldn’t have got far, in that weather, without shoes.

Walking in frozen stuff quickly causes pain before numbness sets in so I'd wager she'd want something on her feet. That may be one way he tried to control her. Denying her shoes would definitely hamper running off through the woods. Imo

 

[Wrenny]

There are people who enjoy taxidermy. It's probably not something you just start at 40, or by first going to school for it. While it seems creepy as **** to most of us, I wouldn't be surprised if most taxidermists had an interest in it as teens, and maybe also started with road kill, or with small animals they'd hunted. Maybe finding a local mentor, or learning how from books. I mean, everyone who grows up to be a taxidermist isn't a sociopath.

 

[enelram]

agree. killing and experimenting with animals and road kill is a major red flag. slashing the tires of his ex-gf's mother car. couldn't hold a job. was in foster care. theft. It's all there. probably bed wetting, too.

Agree with you. You seem to have a good grip on this.
I've stated before some info on studies done on homicidal
adolescents. The conclusions were that these young people
were raised in homes and lived lives of "deprivation, neglect
and rejection". Their early caretakers provided the framework
for creating these disturbances of narcissistic behavior in the child.
Deprivation, neglect and rejection by his caretaker(s)
Remember that a "good home" requires more than just the
physical components. It requires the emotional needs of
the child be met also. If not, you get a maladjusted child
which grows into a very maladjusted adult.

 

[Wrenny]

The CC says, "As he was walking up the sidewalk, the defendant stated he noticed James standing in the large picture window, which he indicated was to the left of the front door."

So, I have a question. I remembered the blinds to those windows being messily, but mostly shut, so I was wondering how he could have seen Mr Closs in the window. When I looked back at pictures of the house, the right blind looks much the same in all of them. The left one though is mostly shut in some, mostly open in some, and hidden behind a tree in many. Does anyone know what the earlier view of those blinds is?

 

[Wrenny]

Another question I've been considering. JP destroyed JLC's clothing and had her put on some of his sister's old pajamas. It appeared in the photos there were boxes of old childhood things there including his sister's clothes and other belongings. It might be just a matter of convenience, having girls' clothes already available. But I wondered if it could be somehow significant, to whatever his issues are, that he wanted her in his sister's clothing? *shudder*

 

[peace9274]

Has it been said/mentioned whether Jayme escaped from JP’s house and then immediately ran up the street, hoping she’d see someone or maybe a house with lights on?

Or did she leave the house and then hide in the woods until she saw someone (Jeanne Nutter walking her dog Henry) she could run to for help?

TIA