AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #31

[ilovechili]

But remember that the front door isn't the only route in and out of that house. We also don't know if there was an accomplice.

True but simply going by the implied idea by the sheriff that it was one perp who came in 5 feet for 4 minutes. I guess even then she could have went out the patio door or the garage and he could have caught her. I am as torn on one or more perps as I am on everything else because as we know, we have no facts.

 

[human]

True but simply going by the implied idea by the sheriff that it was one perp who came in 5 feet for 4 minutes. I guess even then she could have went out the patio door or the garage and he could have caught her. I am as torn on one or more perps as I am on everything else because as we know, we have no facts.

The patio door would be too much in the open.

If the way to the basement is the way I have seen it in homes of that type, it is through the kitchen.

Here are some definitions of split level homes. I would have never called it a split level, but it does fit a defintion in these definitions.


Split-level home - Wikipedia

 

[ilovechili]

The patio door would be too much in the open.

If the way to the basement is the way I have seen it in homes of that type, it is through the kitchen.

Here are some definitions of split level homes. I would have never called it a split level, but it does fit a defintion in these definitions.


Split-level home - Wikipedia

I meant if she was simply panicked and running for her life she may have exited the patio door and he caught her.

As for split level, I have a relative who has a home that would fit what this home looks like somewhat. When leaving the kitchen to the basement, one goes down just a few steps and there is a small landing/entry and an exterior door, or one can continue down a few more steps and one is in the garage. Just for part of the example of the interior. My relative's home is bigger and also has steps (not a full flight) up to the bedrooms. They have far more elevation than this house does so I am guessing the bedrooms probably are not that way and no steps up on the main level, but access to the basement probably is in the Closs home, something on that order.

imo.

 

[Megnut]

It's a rambler or ranch-style house, specifically a tuck under. Main floor with a livable basement, with a garage tucked under the main level. (IMO)

 

[Megnut]

We have reason to believe that law enforcement found Molly at the patio door. On the outside, waiting to go in. Correct?

That suggests to me that no one used that door or it would have still been open. MOO

 

[Megnut]

How did Molly get out? Front door? If not the patio door, the garage doors? Out through the basement? Did she follow Jayme? Just my thoughts.....

 

[The Dude]

I've spent hours figuring this house layout out. For starters, this is in no way a 'split level'. The main floor is an open concept ranch. It sits on a modified walk out style basement foundation. Knowing where the kitchen and Jayme's rooms are located, and the size of the house, I don't believe the basement stairs are located in the kitchen. In the rear of the house, between Jayme's room and the bathroom, there is likely an alcove which would align with stairs going down the wall between the garage and basement. I've been in homes with this layout, so it is possible.

 

[JnRyan]

True but simply going by the implied idea by the sheriff that it was one perp who came in 5 feet for 4 minutes. I guess even then she could have went out the patio door or the garage and he could have caught her. I am as torn on one or more perps as I am on everything else because as we know, we have no facts.

Partly because the sheriff has never implied there was more than one person involved most of my scenarios involve a single individual. But I haven't ruled it out either. I believe the patio door was a sliding glass door and almost every sliding glass door I've seen could only be locked from the inside it's possible LE knows no one went out that way if the door was locked.

There could still be a second or even a third person involved. Someone who drove the vehicle and stayed with it? Another individual goes to patio in case Jayme or a parent attempts to go that way? How would LE know there isn't another person involved.

I've mentioned the Bible/Freeman case several times. In that case there was a killer and two accomplices involved. Of course, there were two very distinct differences. One, the perps burned the home after leaving and the fire consumed the mobile home before the fire department could do much. Second, LE botched that investigation from the very beginning. They found Mrs. Freeman burned in the home and theorized that Mr. Freeman killed her and fled with the girls. (After the fire department and sheriff's department that same day released the crime scene. Family members went to the site and found Mr. Freeman's body almost immediately.) But LE never really mentioned the possibility of multiple murderers and possibly didn't know.

 

[Megnut]

I just had this thought: regardless of the timing, the neighbors DID hear two loud sounds, the same night and near the time of a nearby crime. Notice, neither of them was alarmed for their OWN safety! I wonder if they had any sense of the direction from which those sounds originated.... they must have come from enough of a distance that they didn't feel compelled to investigate, for their own protection. Don't know we can conclude anything helpful from that, but it lends to my theory that James too may have been unworried when he went to his front door to investigate. And what brought him TO the door? The same sounds the neighbors heard? Or a knock at the door? Or the splintering of his front door?

If I may, I just want to thank all of you. I'm not even family, but my heart hurts for this family. I wish our sleuthing could somehow solve it, resolve it and, in truth, reverse it. It's just good to know that there are others out there who care ...

Thank you, Mods, for providing us this forum and keeping us on track!

 

[Wrenny]

That would work too. Just to argue, it is shining--shining deer. Not sure what the laws are on it anymore but we did it by car when I was a kid.

Shining (yes, deer) is legal in Wisconsin. But it's not legal in the fall, and it's not legal if you have a firearm in your posession. Oct 15 during the hours of dark, it's illegal.

 

[The Dude]

I see we're back full circle to patio doors and shining! Yea! Does this mean I can bring up trailer hitches again, too?

 

[ilovechili]

I see we're back full circle to patio doors and shining! Yea! Does this mean I can bring up trailer hitches again, too?

Oh no. Groan.... But what else do we have?

 

[jalbitz]

a lot here seem to think the father was in great fit shape. I don't see it. I see a over weight middle age man. not intending that as a negative toward him. a persons body changes with age. weight is all I can see the father having in his favor though for holding a door closed.

edit to add. even a strong strap or chain can withstand much more at a steady tension or pressure than it can a sudden burst.

I'll have to see if I can find the link, but I read somewhere about how James won an award for number of hours or days working out at the gym. The pictures we have seen show him as overweight, but they don't seem to be all that recent so who knows if he was overweight or fit now

 

[JnRyan]

I just had this thought: regardless of the timing, the neighbors DID hear two loud sounds, the same night and near the time of a nearby crime. Notice, neither of them was alarmed for their OWN safety! I wonder if they had any sense of the direction from which those sounds originated.... they must have come from enough of a distance that they didn't feel compelled to investigate, for their own protection. Don't know we can conclude anything helpful from that, but it lends to my theory that James too may have been unworried when he went to his front door to investigate. And what brought him TO the door? The same sounds the neighbors heard? Or a knock at the door? Or the splintering of his front door?

If I may, I just want to thank all of you. I'm not even family, but my heart hurts for this family. I wish our sleuthing could somehow solve it, resolve it and, in truth, reverse it. It's just good to know that there are others out there who care ...

Thank you, Mods, for providing us this forum and keeping us on track!

I keep coming back to that account and wondering about it. LE seems to be convinced the killer(s) was only in the house for 4 minutes and yet we have a 911 call 20+ minutes AFTER the gunshots. I'm quite sure LE talked to the witnesses. However, if, for example, LE finds 4 shell casings on the floor and they ask the witnesses how many shots they heard and the witnesses state 2, something is off. Were the witnesses not as awake or alert as they claimed to be? Did they look at the bedside clock and mistake 12:58 for 12:38? Media accounts state 'multiple' shots were fired. While 2 shots could be 'multiple', what if it were 3-4 shots and the witnesses slept through the first ones?

And the 911 call stated there was a loud commotion on the other end. Was Jayme's screaming part of that call? We don't know as we haven't heard the call and neither has the family. But if there was screaming and witnesses were as alert as they claimed should they have heard it? On a still night a loud scream can be heard for quite a ways. The only explanation for not hearing a scream is maybe the house is closed up and the HVAC is running.

 

[Rosiebones]

I see we're back full circle to patio doors and shining! Yea! Does this mean I can bring up trailer hitches again, too?

You can bring up trailer hitches if I can ask again how about never any cars in the driveway, but escape out the back of the house through the woods to the area along side the railroad tracks. Hang a left and go down to the road and head north. No one would ever see your escape. The overhead on Google Maps makes this look very viable.

 

[ilovechili]

Partly because the sheriff has never implied there was more than one person involved most of my scenarios involve a single individual. But I haven't ruled it out either. I believe the patio door was a sliding glass door and almost every sliding glass door I've seen could only be locked from the inside it's possible LE knows no one went out that way if the door was locked.

There could still be a second or even a third person involved. Someone who drove the vehicle and stayed with it? Another individual goes to patio in case Jayme or a parent attempts to go that way? How would LE know there isn't another person involved.

I've mentioned the Bible/Freeman case several times. In that case there was a killer and two accomplices involved. Of course, there were two very distinct differences. One, the perps burned the home after leaving and the fire consumed the mobile home before the fire department could do much. Second, LE botched that investigation from the very beginning. They found Mrs. Freeman burned in the home and theorized that Mr. Freeman killed her and fled with the girls. (After the fire department and sheriff's department that same day released the crime scene. Family members went to the site and found Mr. Freeman's body almost immediately.) But LE never really mentioned the possibility of multiple murderers and possibly didn't know.

Yeah, I have also always felt it is one perp. I also feel one of the parents (or both) were the target. Yet I have no more basis for believing that really than other theories that I entertain, as do others.

I did not follow Bible/Freeman but I did read about it not long ago. I can't believe they missed a body in the fire but then I guess maybe LE just thought it made the most sense and that is how far they looked, hard to say. Spousal murders and abductions I am sure are way more common than the other types.

With regard to the patio door, I am unsure. There has been a lot of speculation both ways. I grant you they had people all over that deck but that could be because it was one area they did not believe had to be preserved for evidence as it was not used as you say. Hard to say. I guess it would not mean though even then that someone could not have been on the deck or attempted entry that way.

Frustrating.

 

[1&2&3]

Someone posted a blueprint similar to this house plan recently, past two months. Did anyone copy it and could you post it?

TIA.

 

[The Dude]

You can bring up trailer hitches if I can ask again how about never any cars in the driveway, but escape out the back of the house through the woods to the area along side the railroad tracks. Hang a left and go down to the road and head north. No one would ever see your escape. The overhead on Google Maps makes this look very viable.

Absolutely! As long as we don't mention names, every theory is fair game! I still haven't excluded Bigfoot. In fact, it's not out of the question that your theory and Bigfoot could dovetail together! thinking... thinking...

 

[ilovechili]

I've spent hours figuring this house layout out. For starters, this is in no way a 'split level'. The main floor is an open concept ranch. It sits on a modified walk out style basement foundation. Knowing where the kitchen and Jayme's rooms are located, and the size of the house, I don't believe the basement stairs are located in the kitchen. In the rear of the house, between Jayme's room and the bathroom, there is likely an alcove which would align with stairs going down the wall between the garage and basement. I've been in homes with this layout, so it is possible.

I do not consider it a split level either but I think people who do mean the basement is on a different level than the home. I have seen where a landing on the way down to the garage will have a door to the outside (like halfway down the steps) and even an entry area or bathroom.

On another note, it has probably been discussed but I note that the basement windows appear to be egress size. It makes me think the living area behind the garage may be finished and/or even have a bedroom.

 

[1987]

The 5 feet thing has never made sense to me. Not that I don't think it's possible that was as far as they came into the house, but that you could say that as if it were fact. I never understood the assumption that somehow just walking anywhere leaves some sort of footprints. That makes no sense to me. It was dry out and hadn't rained in a while. As long as you don't step in blood, or if you were an accomplice that entered from the patio or garage, I don't see why there would be magical dry footprints left anywhere.

And if there were dirt or leaf bits... so what? What does that actually tell us? Besides, it doesn't appear to me as if this was necessarily the cleanest home in town, ready for a Better Homes & Gardens cover. My point being, it's not at all far-fetched that the perp and/or an accomplice ventured further into that house. I dunno... just rambling out loud...

what makes you think it wasn't clean? if it wasn't would that make evidence harder to recover do you think? I just got stuck on how white that deco white snowman was just inside the door and though wow, that wouldn't stay so white at my house.