GUILTY WI - Kara Neumann, 11, dies as parents rely on faith healing, Weston, 23 March 2008

  • #401
How the media is to blame:
“The media is doing what comes natural to them but those who proclaim to know Christ should know better.”

“The frenzy to get ratings at others' expense reminded me…”

How the Neumann’s are to blame:
“I see that at MOST the Neumanns are guilty of trying to go where their faith did not take them. This is a mistake that even Jesus’ disciples made. When they wondered about this He corrected them with "because of your unbelief," as He could many of us. Jesus did not crucify them for this mistake, as is happening in the media.”

How everyone else it to blame:
“Many are sharing their opinions about the doctrine of healing but the scriptures warn that we are not permitted to have our own opinion outside of scriptures.”

Why he is not the one to blame:
“Those who know me know that I work 16 hours a day with no days off to serve God’s children because I love them. I ask you who have wisdom and want to be forgiven of your own mistakes to not sit on the sidelines to judge those who are doing their best to bring in the harvest.”

So now he is saying she died because the parents didn't have enough faith. They had enough faith to keep praying instead of taking her to the doctor which could have saved her life. Nobody wants to take any of the blame. Push it off onto someone else.
 
  • #402
Let him without sin cast the first stone. Just like I said, the aunt started this landslide of judgement, i hope she's prepared when she reaps what she has now sown into the lives of her very own family.
 
  • #403
Let him without sin cast the first stone. Just like I said, the aunt started this landslide of judgement, i hope she's prepared when she reaps what she has now sown into the lives of her very own family.

I think the aunt is the only one who really tried to help. I am glad she did. No one else was helping the child.
 
  • #404
Let him without sin cast the first stone. Just like I said, the aunt started this landslide of judgement, i hope she's prepared when she reaps what she has now sown into the lives of her very own family.

You are saying that the aunt was wrong for calling the paramedics.

You are saying that the only purpose that served was to start a landslide of judgment.

In 911 tape, as the paramedics were driving by the house, everyone started shouting

"OVER HERE!!!" "THEY'RE HERE!!!!" "OVER HERE!!!" "COME OVER HERE!!!" "OH PLEASE!!!" "WE'RE OVER HERE!!!"

It sounds exactly like they believe very strongly that they are being rescued by the paramedics.

It sounds exactly like they believed very strongly that who the aunt called was going to rescue them.

It sounds like they don't agree with you.
 
  • #405
You are saying that the aunt was wrong for calling the paramedics.

You are saying that the only purpose that served was to start a landslide of judgment.

In 911 tape, as the paramedics were driving by the house, everyone started shouting

"OVER HERE!!!" "THEY'RE HERE!!!!" "OVER HERE!!!" "COME OVER HERE!!!" "OH PLEASE!!!" "WE'RE OVER HERE!!!"

It sounds exactly like they believe very strongly that they are being rescued by the paramedics.

It sounds exactly like they believed very strongly that who the aunt called was going to rescue them.

It sounds like they don't agree with you.

I refer you back to the 911 transcripts that you posted and the words, the very words that proceedeth out of the aunts mouth. The very first words "My sister in law is..... and then she gets back to why she was calling 911. IMO it was about saying something about her SIL and her beliefs, she couldn't even get on the phone and properly request medical help without being distracted from her own personal motives and intent to already say something about the mother, the attacks began before the death of this girl and she is in the instigator.

The Neumans need to ban her from ever entering their home again.
 
  • #406
I refer you back to the 911 transcripts that you posted and the words, the very words that proceedeth out of the aunts mouth. The very first words "My sister in law is..... and then she gets back to why she was calling 911. IMO it was about saying something about her SIL and her beliefs, she couldn't even get on the phone and properly request medical help without being distracted from her own personal motives and intent to already say something about the mother, the attacks began before the death of this girl and she is in the instigator.

The Neumans need to ban her from ever entering their home again.
i think the aunt simply wanted to warn the police they would face resistance. the tragedy started the moment the parents refused to take a child in a coma to a hospital and made phone calls instead.

as for never letting her in the house again i would not want to visit people i feel killed a child out of pure stubbornness. they refused to admit the child was getting worse and deal with the actual problem. this is coming from a mother that has had her child saved by the power of prayer.
 
  • #407
i think the aunt simply wanted to warn the police they would face resistance. the tragedy started the moment the parents refused to take a child in a coma to a hospital and made phone calls instead.

as for never letting her in the house again i would not want to visit people i feel killed a child out of pure stubbornness. they refused to admit the child was getting worse and deal with the actual problem. this is coming from a mother that has had her child saved by the power of prayer.
They did not kill this young girl. This is way out of line. I suppose they gave her the diabetes too. I suppose every child that dies can be looked as criminal by the parents. HOw about cancer ridden children, parents make many decisions what to do and not do concerning their choices in the care of their child. These parents had the right to decide, their not criminals or abusers, convicted felons or bums or a menace to society.

Their being singled out and it's national attention because it all began at the root of the planted curse, the aunt. The child died, tragic, but that is what happened.

My son has a four wheeler, knives guns, martial arts weapons, and he will be ten this month. Anything that may happen to my child causing death I will never be held accountable for because I am his mother, I have all rights to make decisions concerning him and I dare anyone to cross that boundary concerning me and my son. But I've had family members who will paint an ugly picture for ya out of pure hate and jealousy. Busy body hens that can't run and raise their own families but can tell someone else what to do, talk about them and judge them til they've endangered entire families with their evil devices.

The aunt is no medical doctor, probably not a christian, and wouldn't begin to know what she's talking about. If she's so all this, she was there, why wasn't she performing cpr. If I was there, and it was my family member, and I had all the judgement enough to where I would already know to tell dispatch they needed warnings concerning the mother, the child would have already been in my car on the way to the hospital.

Not me on a phone running my mouth. I would have been in action. I believe all the people around and in the situation are to be held into account too. I think they added to the chaos and confusion right there johnny on the spot, cuz I can just see it now.

Parents in room praying, family members gathered around, friends. And this aunt probably was in another room, or outside the house prophesying with her big unGodly mouth if the parents don't do this, and the parents don't do that she's going to die to die to die to die over and over in that home until she spoke death right into the situation. I believe in the power of the tongue, "Death and life are in the power of the tongue" maybe if she hadn't been crucfying this family for ages concerning their walk with the Lord this tragedy may never have occurred to begin with. There's always a bigger picture, a spirit realm picture, and I wouldn't be surprised if this woman hadn't been speaking such scenerios for years over this family prior to this event.

That's why true real christians need to be very aware of who and what is said about them and their families, and shut the mouths up of anyone saying stupid assanine spew of the mouth that does speak curses into their lives by ignorant and sometimes evil people with evil devices.

Watch and see if this aunt doesn't say something to the effect in one of her interviews or runnings of the mouth, I knew for years, blah blah blah somebody was going to die because of their religious beliefs, well auntie pooh ya got your curse.
 
  • #408
...My son has a four wheeler, knives guns, martial arts weapons, and he will be ten this month. Anything that may happen to my child causing death I will never be held accountable for because I am his mother, I have all rights to make decisions concerning him and I dare anyone to cross that boundary concerning me and my son. But I've had family members who will paint an ugly picture for ya out of pure hate and jealousy. Busy body hens that can't run and raise their own families but can tell someone else what to do, talk about them and judge them til they've endangered entire families with their evil devices.....

I hear you. I'm "endangering" my child by taking her hiking, camping, backpacking and kayaking. If she gets bitten by a poisonous snake or attacked by an alligator, is it my fault for taking her out to enjoy the great outdoors?
 
  • #409
They did not kill this young girl. This is way out of line. I suppose they gave her the diabetes too. I suppose every child that dies can be looked as criminal by the parents. HOw about cancer ridden children, parents make many decisions what to do and not do concerning their choices in the care of their child. These parents had the right to decide, their not criminals or abusers, convicted felons or bums or a menace to society.

Their being singled out and it's national attention because it all began at the root of the planted curse, the aunt. The child died, tragic, but that is what happened.

My son has a four wheeler, knives guns, martial arts weapons, and he will be ten this month. Anything that may happen to my child causing death I will never be held accountable for because I am his mother, I have all rights to make decisions concerning him and I dare anyone to cross that boundary concerning me and my son. But I've had family members who will paint an ugly picture for ya out of pure hate and jealousy. Busy body hens that can't run and raise their own families but can tell someone else what to do, talk about them and judge them til they've endangered entire families with their evil devices.

The aunt is no medical doctor, probably not a christian, and wouldn't begin to know what she's talking about. If she's so all this, she was there, why wasn't she performing CPR. If I was there, and it was my family member, and I had all the judgement enough to where I would already know to tell dispatch they needed warnings concerning the mother, the child would have already been in my car on the way to the hospital.

Not me on a phone running my mouth. I would have been in action. I believe all the people around and in the situation are to be held into account too. I think they added to the chaos and confusion right there johnny on the spot, cuz I can just see it now.

Parents in room praying, family members gathered around, friends. And this aunt probably was in another room, or outside the house prophesying with her big unGodly mouth if the parents don't do this, and the parents don't do that she's going to die to die to die to die over and over in that home until she spoke death right into the situation. I believe in the power of the tongue, "Death and life are in the power of the tongue" maybe if she hadn't been crucfying this family for ages concerning their walk with the Lord this tragedy may never have occurred to begin with. There's always a bigger picture, a spirit realm picture, and I wouldn't be surprised if this woman hadn't been speaking such scenerios for years over this family prior to this event.

That's why true real christians need to be very aware of who and what is said about them and their families, and shut the mouths up of anyone saying stupid assanine spew of the mouth that does speak curses into their lives by ignorant and sometimes evil people with evil devices.

Watch and see if this aunt doesn't say something to the effect in one of her interviews or runnings of the mouth, I knew for years, blah blah blah somebody was going to die because of their religious beliefs, well auntie pooh ya got your curse.
judge not lest ye be judged. did you actually read the story? the aunt did not do CPR because she was not in the room. the aunt was in another state. when the mother called the aunt and told her the child was ill the aunt did not call police. when the aunt called back to check on the child later the mother told her the child was now in a coma. then the aunt called police.

if a man is shot and is taken to the hospital where a doctor is drunk and the doctor screws up the surgery who is at fault for the mans death? by law both the shooter and the doctor. this child died from diabetes and lack of medical care.

parents have a right to choose the medical care for their child. with rights comes responsibility. we have power over our children but with that comes the duty to protect them.
 
  • #410
judge not lest ye be judged. did you actually read the story? the aunt did not do CPR because she was not in the room. the aunt was in another state. when the mother called the aunt and told her the child was ill the aunt did not call police. when the aunt called back to check on the child later the mother told her the child was now in a coma. then the aunt called police.

if a man is shot and is taken to the hospital where a doctor is drunk and the doctor screws up the surgery who is at fault for the mans death? by law both the shooter and the doctor. this child died from diabetes and lack of medical care.

parents have a right to choose the medical care for their child. with rights comes responsibility. we have power over our children but with that comes the duty to protect them.

I agree with you, and you busted me, no I did look and read all the links, and didn't watch any of the videos, because I would have probably gotten more upset and figured it would be best had I not. I thought one of the post stated the aunt was on the phone with 911, during the transcripts too, and you could hear the loud praying over the telephone? I must be mistaken then.

Sherri, this family is suffering with the worse kind of sorrow a heart could ever endure. They've had the joy of children, now they have the darkness of losing the life they brought into this world. I would have to have been there the entire week to be able to make a righteous judgement concerning this situation.

I do know with diabetes, remember my posts about my brother Tony baloney macaroni, his sickness would be so fast, then back and forth like roller coasters. It was the most un-predictable circumstances that was imaginable. The sickest tony would feel often in his own words were the days he actually could function some, but I would watch him be so weak he couldn't even pick up a glass of tea. I still weep when I call this in remembrance. According to him, he actually would feel worse during these times, than when he was even sicker, near comatose states, and coming out of them.

These parents had never dealt with diabetes. We can't expect them to just know it all, can we? Can we really crucify them when they sought help, tended to her, was there by her side day and night, in my opinion, they were let down too.

If people want to crucify them, it's their very own self will, but I really don't think they realize the doors they'll be opening in their own lives, for they then will be held to the same standards. I'm willing to extend them mercy, because I just don't see them knowing their daughter had diabetes, and I don't see any reason why they should have just known all these things ahead of time. God be with them.
 
  • #411
I agree with you, and you busted me, no I did look and read all the links, and didn't watch any of the videos, because I would have probably gotten more upset and figured it would be best had I not. I thought one of the post stated the aunt was on the phone with 911, during the transcripts too, and you could hear the loud praying over the telephone? I must be mistaken then.

Sherri, this family is suffering with the worse kind of sorrow a heart could ever endure. They've had the joy of children, now they have the darkness of losing the life they brought into this world. I would have to have been there the entire week to be able to make a righteous judgement concerning this situation.

I do know with diabetes, remember my posts about my brother Tony baloney macaroni, his sickness would be so fast, then back and forth like roller coasters. It was the most un-predictable circumstances that was imaginable. The sickest tony would feel often in his own words were the days he actually could function some, but I would watch him be so weak he couldn't even pick up a glass of tea. I still weep when I call this in remembrance. According to him, he actually would feel worse during these times, than when he was even sicker, near comatose states, and coming out of them.

These parents had never dealt with diabetes. We can't expect them to just know it all, can we? Can we really crucify them when they sought help, tended to her, was there by her side day and night, in my opinion, they were let down too.

If people want to crucify them, it's their very own self will, but I really don't think they realize the doors they'll be opening in their own lives, for they then will be held to the same standards. I'm willing to extend them mercy, because I just don't see them knowing their daughter had diabetes, and I don't see any reason why they should have just known all these things ahead of time. God be with them.
i have lost a child so i can do more than imagine what these parents are going through. i do not think guilt should be a excuse to avoid the law. i can understand the argument that the parents did not realize how ill the child was up to a point.

the child was in a coma the mother said. once the child reached this point the parents should have realized the danger the child was in unless they have a single digit IQ. if they have a single digit IQ they can not make medical choices for the child imo.
 
  • #412
I agree with you, and you busted me, no I did look and read all the links, and didn't watch any of the videos, because I would have probably gotten more upset and figured it would be best had I not.

KL, I think it is a fair question to ask you why you are upset to begin with if you have avoided the actual facts of this case so far? That would be like driving by someone's house and screaming "A POX ON YOUR HOUSE YOU RAT BAST@RDS!" and never bothering to find out if it is even the correct address.

I think I do understand what you are intending to say about the aunt. I think you are not focusing on the fact that she called 911, but on the fact that she included so many times that the reason why she was doing it was because she was convinced that no matter how dire the situation, the mom was going to try to prevent them from helping her daughter because of her religious beliefs. Right?

Well, was there any truth to that? I think that was completely accurate. But, if you don't think it is then why not share why that is not true?

Also, how do you think the aunt SHOULD have handled the information she was given about the child in a coma?

There's no point in any of us debating something if we don't all have a clear understanding of what the other person thinks. That is what I am trying to do, understand what you think about how it should have been handled and not just that you disagree with how it WAS handled.
 
  • #413
I think the aunt is the only one who really tried to help. I am glad she did. No one else was helping the child.

Amen.
 
  • #414
April 3, 2008


Reports expected next week in diabetes death

Marathon County District Attorney Jill Falstad said Wednesday that her office expects to receive next week completed police reports into the death of Madeline Kara Neumann, the 11-year-old who died March 23 of complications from untreated diabetes.


The girl's parents, Leilani and Dale Neumann of Weston, have said they didn't know she had diabetes, didn't take her to a doctor and prayed for healing. The family does not belong to any organized religion or faith but believes in the Bible and that healing comes through prayer, Leilani Neumann has said.


In a news release, Falstad said factors that will be considered in determining what, if any, charges may be filed include the duration of the child's illness, its progression and symptoms, observations made by other witnesses, and the overall context and circumstances surrounding the death, including the role of the family's beliefs.


http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=735188
 
  • #415
i have lost a child so i can do more than imagine what these parents are going through. i do not think guilt should be a excuse to avoid the law. i can understand the argument that the parents did not realize how ill the child was up to a point.

the child was in a coma the mother said. once the child reached this point the parents should have realized the danger the child was in unless they have a single digit IQ. if they have a single digit IQ they can not make medical choices for the child imo.

But most comas aren't life threatening, right? In a diabetic situation, yes we know it's critical and you are in a crisis situation. But comas generally aren't immediately going to cause death to my knowledge. They didn't even know Karla was having sugar problems. With all of this occurring like it did, I believe the child may have been experiencing dizziness, change in thirsts, energy and other physiological changes she didn't report to her parents because she didn't know too.

I'm very sorry about losing your babe, the very soul that was flesh of your flesh and bone of your bone. Remember, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I'm grateful that the two of you had each other and had a love that not everyone gets to encounter. One day, all of this will be restored back, and never again will you feel the sorrow of being separated from your beloved child.

Losing Tony was a different kind of hurt, a sinking deep raw hurt that comes flooding in and out like mighty rushing waters. One moment, my emotions are full of sorrow, then flashbacks of memories creep in and I explode with laughter as his life is made known to me and I become aware of how deeply our hearts can love another.

Peace to you.
 
  • #416
But most comas aren't life threatening, right? In a diabetic situation, yes we know it's critical and you are in a crisis situation. But comas generally aren't immediately going to cause death to my knowledge. They didn't even know Karla was having sugar problems. With all of this occurring like it did, I believe the child may have been experiencing dizziness, change in thirsts, energy and other physiological changes she didn't report to her parents because she didn't know too.

I'm very sorry about losing your babe, the very soul that was flesh of your flesh and bone of your bone. Remember, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I'm grateful that the two of you had each other and had a love that not everyone gets to encounter. One day, all of this will be restored back, and never again will you feel the sorrow of being separated from your beloved child.

Losing Tony was a different kind of hurt, a sinking deep raw hurt that comes flooding in and out like mighty rushing waters. One moment, my emotions are full of sorrow, then flashbacks of memories creep in and I explode with laughter as his life is made known to me and I become aware of how deeply our hearts can love another.

Peace to you.
thank you for the kind words about my child. i am sorry for your loss and i am glad you can find comfort in your memories.

you are correct that a coma in its self is not life threatening. why? medical care. without medical care a coma will kill you. people in a coma need to have tubes inserted to receive water and food. this child died before she could die from lack of food or water. why? because the coma was a symptom. a coma will not kill you but the cause of a coma kills people every day. a coma is not a small symptom. out of the millions of people in this world that have slipped into a coma over the years how many cases are not related to a serious medical condition?
 
  • #417
Could LE treat this differently if they leave out the "religious beliefs" part? They listed several things that they will be considering, and one of them is the religious beliefs of the parents.

Would it be different if atheist parents sat there and watched their daughter become emaciated, listless, vomiting, unable to wake up, and then in a coma? I am not sure how that works when religion is not a part of it vs. when it is.
 
  • #418
I hear you. I'm "endangering" my child by taking her hiking, camping, backpacking and kayaking. If she gets bitten by a poisonous snake or attacked by an alligator, is it my fault for taking her out to enjoy the great outdoors?

I don't think anyone blames this child's illness on the parents. People are upset that the parents didn't do what was necessary...she needed medical care. If you're out hiking and happen upon a snake, that's not endangering your child. However, if your child needs (especially, life depends on) something you won't provide...that's a problem. I have read, 'prayer is doing something', but watching a person die is also 'doing something'. Please don't get me wrong, I believe in prayer...but that doesn't have to be where it ends.
 
  • #419
KOOL LOOK, (((HUGS)))
In one of your above post you said-
Sherri, this family is suffering with the worse kind of sorrow a heart could ever endure. They've had the joy of children, now they have the darkness of losing the life they brought into this world.

This family WOULD NOT be suffering in darkness if they would have gotten medical help for their daughter.
They neglected her when they didn't get her help.
Childhood diabetes is a treatable disease!
 
  • #420
I don't think anyone blames this child's illness on the parents. People are upset that the parents didn't do what was necessary...she needed medical care. If you're out hiking and happen upon a snake, that's not endangering your child. However, if your child needs (especially, life depends on) something you won't provide...that's a problem. I have read, 'prayer is doing something', but watching a person die is also 'doing something'. Please don't get me wrong, I believe in prayer...but that doesn't have to be where it ends.

I agree. I just for some reason can't see these seemingly loving caring parents, having older children, medical insurance, a business so their pretty darn smart in ways, and just down right deny their daughter the medical care. They just don't seem like un-merciful people to me. I don't see it being a criminal act. Or even negligence. I think this young girl got sick, and got sick quick, and it caught those in authority over her off guard and they weren't prepared or aware of what was transpiring as it developed so rapidly. I would bet my checking account they would have took her to the doctor at get jump street now, I just don't see the criminality to this.

I'm concerned about the permanent scarring this family is going to have to endure, that's what hurts me about this situation. We still have a family unit here, and I'm all about uniting, not dividing.
 

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