WI WI - Kelly Dwyer, 27, Milwaukee, 11 Oct 2013 - #1

[Snoods]

BBM

Exactly Woe. Thanks for understanding. You have a unique way of writing,

better than I ever could. Back to lurking for me!! LOL :blushing:

Please keep posting! If I quit posting every time I embarrassed myself, well, I wouldn't be posting anymore. Besides, you just misunderstood something that was worded in a confusing way, certainly nothing to be embarrassed about!

 

[UncannyCanuck]

Regarding the time lapsed security cameras, it is very possible Kelly could have walked out undetected.

To understand the time lapse reference, think of some of the time lapse movies you may have seen; for example, watch a man grow a beard in 30 seconds.

Obviously this is not possible in real life. The way it is done is that they take individual pictures of the same man "periodically" (say twice a day) over, say, a month and then play all 60 pictures back over 30 seconds. Another example would be to see all four seasons of a year pass in one minute by "periodically" taking one picture of the same scenery every day for a year and then playing all 365 pictures back in 60 seconds. What is important is the time span between each picture taken.

Full motion movies are made by taking about 24 individual pictures per second (the time span between pictures is about .04 seconds) and then playing them back at the same rate to give the illusion of full, real time motion. Takng fewer pictures per second and playing them back at the same rate would just make the motion appear to be choppy.

If the security cameras were set to take a picture only once every 10 or 20 seconds, it is possible that Kelly exited between pictures without being seen (depending on the width and perspective of a camera's field of view, a person could pass through this field within just a few seconds). In the context described by Oploc2005 ("after talking to building manager we found out cameras are time lapsed it is very possible Kelly left without being seen on film"), this appears to have been the case in KZ's building.

The fact that she was seen on camera going in doesn't necessarily mean that she would be seen going out. It only means that when she was going in, she happened to be in the camera's field of view at the moment it was set to take its "periodic" picture.

 

[fernia]

I listened to a song this weekend, 'Listen to Her Heart' by Tom Petty, and it made me think of Kelly. The words about "all your money and your cocaine' and 'she don't need you' made me think maybe she just got fed up and booked. Isn't it odd that if KZ doesn't know where she is that he's not out there searching for her ? Not knowing if she has a degree or any relevant experience could she just go away with someone she met and quickly find another job ? Yes, she would hurt her parents but maybe they would have tried to talk her out of it. Thus the "I love you" phone call. Now there's such an outpouring she may be too embarrassed to resurface. Just sayin'.

MKE 2013......Zoe...koe or Zah...koe?

OpLoc....how did RIchfield go?
?
?
,

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Thanks Justice for pointing that out. Not my intention to twist Kelly's father's words. Sorry Sleuthers!! How could I misinterpret that.:banghead:

Honest mistake, B2BMe...

I understand how this statement could have been interpreted in the way you interpreted it...

That is why we hash out these bits and pieces of information on WS!

:seeya:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Regarding the time lapsed security cameras, it is very possible Kelly could have walked out undetected.

To understand the time lapse reference, think of some of the time lapse movies you may have seen; for example, watch a man grow a beard in 30 seconds.

Obviously this is not possible in real life. The way it is done is that they take individual pictures of the same man "periodically" (say twice a day) over, say, a month and then play all 60 pictures back over 30 seconds. Another example would be to see all four seasons of a year pass in one minute by "periodically" taking one picture of the same scenery every day for a year and then playing all 365 pictures back in 60 seconds. What is important is the time span between each picture taken.

Full motion movies are made by taking about 24 individual pictures per second (the time span between pictures is about .04 seconds) and then playing them back at the same rate to give the illusion of full, real time motion. Takng fewer pictures per second and playing them back at the same rate would just make the motion appear to be choppy.

If the security cameras were set to take a picture only once every 10 or 20 seconds, it is possible that Kelly exited between pictures without being seen (depending on the width and perspective of a camera's field of view, a person could pass through this field within just a few seconds). In the context described by Oploc2005 ("after talking to building manager we found out cameras are time lapsed it is very possible Kelly left without being seen on film"), this appears to have been the case in KZ's building.

The fact that she was seen on camera going in doesn't necessarily mean that she would be seen going out. It only means that when she was going in, she happened to be in the camera's field of view at the moment it was set to take its "periodic" picture.

Thank you for the info. regarding time lapse photography...

but my question is... What is the use of this type of surveillance photography if it only takes pictures of a percentage of the time... Therefore missing possible important data... (As we may be seeing here in Kelly's case) ?

this is not directed at you, Uncanny, .... This is just a question I ask of any business/residence/ who uses time lapsed photography for security reasons...

JMO

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Oh no, please don't be embarrassed and please don't stop posting. You are appreciated here!

I second this! I once filled two pages with back and forth debate due to a misunderstanding on my part.
Oh boy, talk about embarrassment when I realized I had been stuck in some mindset that was of my own making!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Regarding the time lapsed security cameras, it is very possible Kelly could have walked out undetected.

To understand the time lapse reference, think of some of the time lapse movies you may have seen; for example, watch a man grow a beard in 30 seconds.

Obviously this is not possible in real life. The way it is done is that they take individual pictures of the same man "periodically" (say twice a day) over, say, a month and then play all 60 pictures back over 30 seconds. Another example would be to see all four seasons of a year pass in one minute by "periodically" taking one picture of the same scenery every day for a year and then playing all 365 pictures back in 60 seconds. What is important is the time span between each picture taken.

Full motion movies are made by taking about 24 individual pictures per second (the time span between pictures is about .04 seconds) and then playing them back at the same rate to give the illusion of full, real time motion. Takng fewer pictures per second and playing them back at the same rate would just make the motion appear to be choppy.

If the security cameras were set to take a picture only once every 10 or 20 seconds, it is possible that Kelly exited between pictures without being seen (depending on the width and perspective of a camera's field of view, a person could pass through this field within just a few seconds). In the context described by Oploc2005 ("after talking to building manager we found out cameras are time lapsed it is very possible Kelly left without being seen on film"), this appears to have been the case in KZ's building.

The fact that she was seen on camera going in doesn't necessarily mean that she would be seen going out. It only means that when she was going in, she happened to be in the camera's field of view at the moment it was set to take its "periodic" picture.

If this is the case, they'll have to do a thorough study of the camera system to determine whether or not missing Kelly exiting the building is a possibility (considering the factors in the post above - field view, intervals, timing).
We can't take the apartment manager's word for it as in, 'oh, in that case, we understand why she can't be seen leaving.'

Here's another worry of mine. I hope LE preserves information from the day they first investigated.
Someone could change the configuration of the system after the fact. Who has stock in managing the building?
Doesn't KZ have people in real estate? With wealth comes power and, unfortunately, sometimes deceitfulness.

Also, why have video surveillance to begin with if, when needed, it can't be depended on to tell a complete story? Crazy.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Anything is possible. My last choice is that Kelly is voluntarily missing. Even though that would prove to be the best choice, it isn't the most likely one imo.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

http://fox6now.com/2013/11/10/monday-marks-one-month-since-27-year-old-kelly-dwyer-last-seen/

Over 20 surveillance cameras have been unable to provide answers.

Willow Knight, where? Where do you think Kelly still may be?
The article refers to several different places.

 

[bwt42]

http://fox6now.com/2013/11/10/monday-marks-one-month-since-27-year-old-kelly-dwyer-last-seen/

Over 20 surveillance cameras have been unable to provide answers.

Willow Knight, where? Where do you think Kelly still may be?
The article refers to several different places.

How do you avoid 20 surveillance cameras even if they are "time lapse" ? you would have a better chance walking through a minefield.

 

[mke2013]

Fernia, it's pronounced Zah Koe.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/11/19/where-kelly-dwyer-missing-milwaukee-woman

The Kelly Dwyer allegedly described by Zocco to police is in stark contrast to the bubbly young woman described by her family and friends.

Kelly's friend, Stephanie, describes her as outgoing and interesting as well as being interested in others. "She's not a wild party animal, that's just not true."

Kelly is into yoga and Pilates and is energetic and happy.
Her father said Kelly is friendly, hard working and has many friends.

 

[SmoothOperator]

If this is the case, they'll have to do a thorough study of the camera system to determine whether or not missing Kelly exiting the building is a possibility (considering the factors in the post above - field view, intervals, timing).
We can't take the apartment manager's word for it as in, 'oh, in that case, we understand why she can't be seen leaving.'

Here's another worry of mine. I hope LE preserves information from the day they first investigated.
Someone could change the configuration of the system after the fact. Who has stock in managing the building?
Doesn't KZ have people in real estate? With wealth comes power and, unfortunately, sometimes deceitfulness.

Also, why have video surveillance to begin with if, when needed, it can't be depended on to tell a complete story? Crazy.

I think that I, too have similar thoughts, and even worries wrt the surveillance camera footage from KZ's building.. My worries are not in the system being "time lapsed" .. The apt's surveillance camera configuration is, IMO, not the troublesome issue, here.. IMO its the fact that this configuration now has somehow created this escape goat scenario, so to speak...with it giving KZ the benefit of this now very much believed scenario of Kelly Dwyer actually having left his apt alive, well, and of her own free will..and it is simply the configuration of his apt surveillance system that is the sole cause for why there is no documented proof of her leaving/exiting, as its documented of her entering/arriving with him at his apt..

I, at this point in time, am sticking with the little known facts, as well as taking my lead from this extremely active, ongoing investigation by LE.. KZ doesn't get the benefit of doubt with this newly found possibility..not from me(and that is what I'm expressing is my own personal opinion on the matter..vs..this being a court of law).. For now this configuration does not factor in, in being a reasonable explanation for why Kelly Dwyer did in fact leave that building alive, well, and of her own free will(as KZ desperately needs everyone to believe is FACT)...it just happened to not have been caught by any of the 20 something surveillance cams..

All jmo and will again reiterate this is an opinion.. Opinions, theories, discussions, etc is what takes place here.. This is not a court of law, nor have I seen anyone even attempt to claim, or allude to their opinions somehow equal PROOF of ANYONE'S GUILT/INVOLVEMENT.

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

 

[fernia]

" there is no documented proof of her leaving/exiting, as its documented of her entering/arriving with him at his apt."

This was one of the things I wasn't sure of....did the camera show KZ entering the bldg with Kelly ..... everything I've read just mentioned her being seen. Thought she may have been alone but not sure. In fact not sure where the info about the camera originated.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/Arrest-made-in-case-of-missing-Milwaukee-woman-228247261.html

On October 17 or 18, the news that Kelly can be seen on video going into the building but not coming out was first reported.

The report has this information as 'according to sources', not an official statement made my LE.

Has LE made any official statements regarding Kelly's case? Weird.

 

[katherine5]

" there is no documented proof of her leaving/exiting, as its documented of her entering/arriving with him at his apt."

This was one of the things I wasn't sure of....did the camera show KZ entering the bldg with Kelly ..... everything I've read just mentioned her being seen. Thought she may have been alone but not sure. In fact not sure where the info about the camera originated.

So what is your connection to this case, as you are a new member? Do you live in Milwaukee?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Below are the 3 pages of KZ's criminal complaint detailing the charges against him.. I saw where Woe mentioned she couldn't open the PDF link to the court doc so, I figured I'd post all 3pages here on the thread for any who are unable to view the PDF..as well as having them posted here for future reference..<<crossing fingers that I won't blow the margins as I'm posting via mobile ATM and sometimes that's tricky when posting pics:crazy:>>

On top of page three of the pdf Smooth so kindly posted, Detective Tammy Tramel-McClain states,
"The last time Ms. Dwyer was seen was on October 10 at the defendant's apartment."

The interview took place on October 14, the same day LE searched KZ's apartment.

Another article mentions the police were in and out of KZ's building for three days (leading up to the article first published on October 17) that claims there's no surveillance showing Kelly leaving the building.

I haven't found a direct quote from LE about the video surveillance tapes.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens next.

 

[J Block]

I think that I, too have similar thoughts, and even worries wrt the surveillance camera footage from KZ's building.. My worries are not in the system being "time lapsed" .. The apt's surveillance camera configuration is, IMO, not the troublesome issue, here.. IMO its the fact that this configuration now has somehow created this escape goat scenario, so to speak...with it giving KZ the benefit of this now very much believed scenario of Kelly Dwyer actually having left his apt alive, well, and of her own free will..and it is simply the configuration of his apt surveillance system that is the sole cause for why there is no documented proof of her leaving/exiting, as its documented of her entering/arriving with him at his apt..

I, at this point in time, am sticking with the little known facts, as well as taking my lead from this extremely active, ongoing investigation by LE.. KZ doesn't get the benefit of doubt with this newly found possibility..not from me(and that is what I'm expressing is my own personal opinion on the matter..vs..this being a court of law).. For now this configuration does not factor in, in being a reasonable explanation for why Kelly Dwyer did in fact leave that building alive, well, and of her own free will(as KZ desperately needs everyone to believe is FACT)...it just happened to not have been caught by any of the 20 something surveillance cams..

All jmo and will again reiterate this is an opinion.. Opinions, theories, discussions, etc is what takes place here.. This is not a court of law, nor have I seen anyone even attempt to claim, or allude to their opinions somehow equal PROOF of ANYONE'S GUILT/INVOLVEMENT.

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

KD leaving the building, alive, well, and of her own free will is definitely NOT a fact, regardless of what KZ wants people to believe. However, IMO, the camera configuration absolutely is a factor in determining if KD left under her own volition. Do we know the exact placement of the cameras in relation to the path KD would travel to reach the exit? It's not out of the realm of possibility that she may have only been within eyeshot of 2 cameras, including the exit. IMO, we'd need to know how many cameras she would've passed by to exit the building. If we knew that answer, I think we'd have a better idea if it was realistic that she could avoid "X" amount of cameras without being captured on video.

 

[Blessed2Bme]

KZ in court today.

Snipped by me:

MILWAUKEE (WITI) — The man who may have been the last person to see a missing Milwaukee woman made a court appearance on Tuesday, November 19th. Kris Zocco had a hearing on Tuesday in his drug case.
Zocco has been a free man since November 6th, when he posted $250,000 bail — one day after a judge ordered his bail to remain at $250K, after Zocco’s attorney tried to get his bail reduced.
Zocco may have been one of the last to see 27-year-old Kelly Dwyer, who has been missing since October 11th.......

More at link.

http://fox6now.com/2013/11/19/zocco-makes-court-appearance-kelly-dwyers-uncle-speaks-with-fox6/

 

[Oploc2005]

Update family has talked with HLN and Nancy Grace has story on her site. With that said KZ appeared in court this morning with two lawyers now they picked up Coffey as well. They are moving to toss out entire search warrant as never did police read him his miranda rights this is known from detective admitted it on stand in first hearing. So if this gets thrown out what do you all think it will do the case? We made it out to Richfield few volunteers and family posted fliers everywhere below is picture of where he is staying at moms house.