WI WI - Kelly Nolan, 22, Madison, 23 June 2007 #1

[MagicRose99]

I'm sorry... I'll probably be attacked for my viewpoint, but...

There has to be guidelines for LE. They cannot investigate every time someone doesn't come home on time. Perhaps the person spent the night with a friend, took an impromptu trip, needed time alone, or whatever... LE cannot spend manpower to look into every idiot who doesn't give a crap and not inform a friend/family member, etc. of their plans. If LE wastes time doing this, then they'll be ridiculed because they were out looking for an idiot instead of catching the robber/mugger/rapist/murderer.

Yes... sometimes it's a case like Kelly... but if they have to stop to investigate every time someone doesn't come home for a day or two without evidence that there has been a real crime, then the real crimes won't have the manpower they need to be solved. IF there is evidence to support that this person didn't just disappear on their own, then LE does move... and move fast.

To criticize LE just because you want info immediately, or info that doesn't need to be made public, or info that may jeopardize a case doesn't mean LE isn't doing their job because they don't release "all" to the public. It means they're trying to keep their case from becoming corrupted so that they can find, charge and try the perp in court. Most LE are honest, hardworking people doing an impossible task... God bless em' all.

 

[ronniejo]

They say no suspect at this time....

Dane County Coroner John Stanley confirmed late Tuesday night that the body found in a wooded area south of Madison on Monday was that of 22-year-old Kelly Nolan. He is still working to determine the cause of death, but police said she was killed.

Police spokesman Joel DeSpain said investigators expect to wrap up their work gathering evidence at the scene Wednesday. They have no suspects in Nolan's death.
http://www.channel3000.com/news/13664788/detail.html

 

[Straitfan]

MagicRose99,

I agree with you 100%. No one is this kind of situation would want the info out and jeopardizing the case if it were their family/friend.. Who knows what info the LE has, I am sure probably more than anyone thinks..

 

[cheko1]

I think I can speak on what cheko meant. The outcome doesn't matter or time of death. It's that she was obviously truly missing, but LE didn't necessarily treat it like that, or allowed the impression that she was gone voluntarily.

If LE had approached it differently, maybe more people would have reported suspicious things they saw that night. Maybe surveillance tapes would not have been written over.

I also believe Kelly was probably killed the same night she disappeared. However, if LE had treated it as a kidnapping/possible homicide from the beginning with the public, perhaps they'd have stronger evidence or better leads on the murderer. That's what cheko's criticizing, I believe, and I agree.

Maybe they do have someone in mind. But that someone has had almost 20 days to make plans, kill again, leave the country, lawyer up, whatever... This isn't like the Christine Rudy case where LE knew who probably did it, waited for a slip up on a traffic violation and took him into custody until they found her body.

Yes Ang thats what I was trying to get at. In 20 days the murderer could of been in Aruba. If at all possible you can bet he isn't waiting in Madison to be arrested.

Apparently LE never had a clue who they were looking for.

 

[whisky]

America's Most Wanted is one of the most viable groups working with both LE and the media. They get the information out to the public and the public helps put the perp where he/she belongs. This should show LE how vital it is to include the public in investigations from the beginning. How many people have they put away because John Q. Public stepped forward to solve their case and/or bring the missing home? Common sense prevails here.

Why wait until the trail has gone cold or our children are dead before LE realizes the right way to do things is to include the people (the public) who can stop things BEFORE they happen while there is still time? I, for one, am sick and tired of the statistics being what they are in this nation of well educated, experienced, and technologically savy Law Enforcement officers who aren't willing to understand the best way to fight crime in this day and age is to include the people who have to live with it daily who can STOP it immediately if they are given a chance to do the right thing by alerting them via the media. (Thank Goodness for the Amber Alert System now!)

It is clear to me you have only been here long enough to read 10 pages and I would love to invite you to stick around to read a thousand plus more. We do understand how things work, but maybe you will understand why we are here and why we are frustrated with the way things have not and are not working.

In the meantime, another family gets to bury another dead woman while LE "works" the case.

America's Most Wanted is VERY different to what we have going on here. I said I would explain myself when the time is appropriate, and I will do so. That time however is not quite yet here. I wish it were, but it isn't. I ask that you remain patient.

Yes, it should be clear to everyone that I've only been around here for this case and the previous 10+ pages. However, I would urge you and others not to jump to conclusions about my background.

 

[whisky]

Very early on LE also made it very clear they were not going to be "fooled" again:

>>>The last time a local missing person garnered national attention was in 2004 when Audrey Seiler's fake disappearance became national news story and later a notorious one."I'm not sure that we've ever seen anything in Madison like Audrey Seiler, and I think that there is no interest on the department's behalf that this becomes a spectacle like Audrey Seiler," said DeSpain.<<<

The quote you are referring to is from Joel DeSpain, Madison's Public Informantion Officer. While I think DeSpain did a decent job, take into consideration that he has held this position for aprox. six months and this is the first big case he has had to report on. It was a mistake, and I'm guessing he wished he hadn't said it.

For you websleuths out there: One of my explanations for the reason LE is handling things the way they are took place in the Audrey Seiler case and it has nothing to do with Audrey Seiler herself, or the possibility of Madison's Police making the same mistake twice. That's as much insight as I will share at this time.

 

[whisky]

In the meantime, another family gets to bury another dead woman while LE "works" the case.

Believe me, as I have children myself it has to be the most gut-wrenching thing a parent could ever imagine. That being said, educate yourself on how long most abducted children live. (Those abducted by someone other than a parent). Odds are that Kelly Nolan met her fate that night.

LE is not "working" a case. They are "building" a case!

 

[JDB]

I'm sorry... I'll probably be attacked for my viewpoint, but...

There has to be guidelines for LE. They cannot investigate every time someone doesn't come home on time. Perhaps the person spent the night with a friend, took an impromptu trip, needed time alone, or whatever... LE cannot spend manpower to look into every idiot who doesn't give a crap and not inform a friend/family member, etc. of their plans. If LE wastes time doing this, then they'll be ridiculed because they were out looking for an idiot instead of catching the robber/mugger/rapist/murderer.

Yes... sometimes it's a case like Kelly... but if they have to stop to investigate every time someone doesn't come home for a day or two without evidence that there has been a real crime, then the real crimes won't have the manpower they need to be solved. IF there is evidence to support that this person didn't just disappear on their own, then LE does move... and move fast.

To criticize LE just because you want info immediately, or info that doesn't need to be made public, or info that may jeopardize a case doesn't mean LE isn't doing their job because they don't release "all" to the public. It means they're trying to keep their case from becoming corrupted so that they can find, charge and try the perp in court. Most LE are honest, hardworking people doing an impossible task... God bless em' all.

Boy I wish we had a Applause ICON!!! You are so right.Le did evrything they could on this case.And it sounds like Her sister not saying where she was when she called might have hurt the case.And AMW only broadcast stories when asked to unless there is an Amber alert from what I recall.

 

[whisky]

It has been reported that April Nolan won't discuss the details of her and Kelly's last phone call....to the MEDIA! I'm sure it has been discussed with LE but not revealed to the media. Another secret you say? Well, consider this. What do you think about the possibility of April not liking what Kelly was telling her. For example: she met a guy late downtown and was making a 'booty' call?

"Who" Kelly was with is important, not what was discussed on the phone.

 

[Straitfan]

Not that this is important at the moment, but I work for wireless provider as to regards to cell phone "pings" the phone records have to be subpoenaed first otherwise any "stalker, crazy person out there could request them!" A cell tower has approx 7 mile radius in all directions, so while they may had had records early trying to pinpoint a "possible" location in the "radius" to search is a whole other issue.

 

[ronniejo]

Oregon Landowner Reacts to Nolan's Body Being Found On Her Property

Story at link.....click on red video camera next to story to watch video

http://wkow.madison.com/

 

[JimNikki]

The quote you are referring to is from Joel DeSpain, Madison's Public Informantion Officer. While I think DeSpain did a decent job, take into consideration that he has held this position for aprox. six months and this is the first big case he has had to report on. It was a mistake, and I'm guessing he wished he hadn't said it.

Regarding Mr. DeSpain, he was a reporter himself before taking this position, was he not?

In any case, if you (or anyone else) could answer this base question, without impacting the investigation, I would be grateful.

More than 5 days after anyone had contact with Kelly & more than 4 days of private LE investigation:

There's "no evidence of a crime at this point," DeSpain said. "No evidence of foul play." Still, he said, family members say Nolan was not the type of person to be out of contact for very long. "There was nothing going on in her life to indicate she was going to take a trip or check out," he said.
- http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/index.php?ntid=199465&ntpid=1

"She would not not contact someone for this long ever," said April Nolan. "I don't think I've gone more than 12 to 15 hours without talking to her over the past couple of months of her living here for the summer.
- http://www.channel3000.com/news/13592268/detail.html


So, to summarize at this point: LE needs our help, there is "no evidence" of foul play, it has been over 5 days...by all admissions from anyone & everyone who actually knew her, this is totally and completely out of character...and a human being was somehow able to completely vanish from the face of the earth with no reason to do so.

These base facts remained consistent throughout the search until the body was found, if you're able to look past all of the DUI/troubled girl pictures painted by the media (which I believe LE is capable of doing), yet no red flags indicating foul play were ever raised publicly. Ever. Just it's a missing person's case until...oops, a body.

The urgency on LE's part of finding who did this suddenly is very clear...and I believe they will...Just as I believe with that same urgency, LE may not have had to.

In what circumstance is that acceptable? More to the point, must the "evidence" being referred to as necessary to suspect (and consequently create a sense of urgency that this girl needs to be found NOW) foul play only be physical...explaining why police released images of the handbag...otherwise it will remain a simple missing person's case until something is found to prove this wasn't A.S. part 2?

Quite frankly, if it wasn't for the efforts of the family & the public pushing forward, very little seemed to have been done on behalf of LE to bring attention to this case and the general perception by many was that LE didn't seem too excited about those efforts...especially any that related to National attention, or even outside of Madison, without "evidence".

Thanks for your input & I do realize you may not be able to answer some of this and do/will not take that as avoiding the issue. Again, like many, at the core I am just wishing more could've been done.

 

[Straitfan]

With all due respect, JimNikki, there are thousands of people missing that don't have any attention, let alone, national attention.. I dont personnally understand what that has to do with LE in this particular case? I, for one, doubt that most LE's out there just dont care or want to to their job.. My own guess. is it is probably much more heart-wrenching to them as they are the one's in direct contact with the families than it could be to others. Just because one doesnt know what they are "doing" , think it is unfair to insinuate they are not doing their job.. Dont think there is a person on this site that can say for a fact what LE knows about this case.. JMO, of course!

 

[JimNikki]

With all due respect, JimNikki, there are thousands of people missing that don't have any attention, let alone, national attention.. I dont personnally understand what that has to do with LE in this particular case? I, for one, doubt that most LE's out there just dont care or want to to their job.. My own guess. is it is probably much more heart-wrenching to them as they are the one's in direct contact with the families than it could be to others. Just because one doesnt know what they are "doing" , think it is unfair to insinuate they are not doing their job.. Dont think there is a person on this site that can say for a fact what LE knows about this case.. JMO, of course!

I am not insinuating anything. Seriously. Whisky seems knowledgeable in investigations and I am asking a question and backing the basis for that question with what happened without going back and pulling up every single quote.

I don't believe that most or any LE's out there "just don't care or want to do their job". I am simply asking what many in Madison want to know.

There is a reason so many people, right here in Madison, can't believe they found her dead. Very few thought she was in danger.

That is not typical, at least in my experience, and something to think about before anyone judges me or anyone questioning LE in this case. I don't know any other way to get people to understand that.

If it is typical or standard in missing person cases...let me know. Simple.

I do appreciate your input tho and didn't realize any of my comments could be viewed that way.

 

[JimNikki]

With all due respect, JimNikki, there are thousands of people missing that don't have any attention, let alone, national attention.. I dont personnally understand what that has to do with LE in this particular case?

I'm sorry, I missed that question. That would be related to the Audry Seiler issue...as well as the LE's stated position that national attention wasn't necessary despite the 'completely vanished' aspect of the case.

 

[ihadcabinfever]

I am really sorry this didn't turn out different . Sorry to her and her family.

I do have a question " Why didn't the dog smell anything?"

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/8441857.html

Keith Kramer lives within sight of where the body was found. He says he smelled the body days before police found it.

“I didn’t think enough to call the smell in,” Kramer said. He now regrets that he didn't tell police.

The body was discovered in a thick, wooded area along Schneider Road in the Town of Dunn. Residents say the body was about 20 feet from the road.???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Lionrun ,Where are you?

 

[ronniejo]

Dont think there is a person on this site that can say for a fact what LE knows about this case.. JMO, of course!

I agree ! I really dont think that anyone that has private information about this case would be posting it on Websleuths. Nothing against Websleuths! I Love this place! But Im sure anyone that is in on this investigation realizes what the expense of sharing private information from a homicide investigation could be! JMO ...of coarse!

 

[concernedperson]

I am really sorry this didn't turn out different . Sorry to her and her family.

I do have a question " Why didn't the dog smell anything?"

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/8441857.html

Keith Kramer lives within sight of where the body was found. He says he smelled the body days before police found it.

“I didn’t think enough to call the smell in,” Kramer said. He now regrets that he didn't tell police.

The body was discovered in a thick, wooded area along Schneider Road in the Town of Dunn. Residents say the body was about 20 feet from the road.???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Lionrun ,Where are you?

I can't answer any questions about the dog unless it wasn't trained in cadaver smells but a human being smelled the body and didn't call it in? Sorry, this case has made national news and to be so negligent is regretful at best. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Ang50]

I can't answer any questions about the dog unless it wasn't trained in cadaver smells but a human being smelled the body and didn't call it in? Sorry, this case has made national news and to be so negligent is regretful at best. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

It's country out there, though. I would guess this guy smelled something dead, and assumed it was an animal of some kind. That would be my guess.

BUT - this highlights the debate about LE's approach in this case. The impression from LE and the media was not that this was a woman in danger or kidnapped or murdered. If there had been more concern for her, perhaps this guy would have checked out the smell or called it in just in case.

 

[Ang50]

Not that this is important at the moment, but I work for wireless provider as to regards to cell phone "pings" the phone records have to be subpoenaed first otherwise any "stalker, crazy person out there could request them!" A cell tower has approx 7 mile radius in all directions, so while they may had had records early trying to pinpoint a "possible" location in the "radius" to search is a whole other issue.

Do you know if a cell has to be turned on to "ping"? i.e. battery can't be dead, right? Also - does the cell have to be active - i.e. phone call in or out?

A subpoena requires "probable cause" that a crime has been committed. THUS, if LE didn't initially suspect that foul play was involved, they would not have written a subpoena to get the phone records. Again, another delay in the case.