WI WI - The Capital City Murders - UNSOLVED

  • #141
Thanks for sharing MSSheila.
I just got back from Madison. While out there, I read an article that stated that the chief of police doesn't believe the two most recent murders , Marino and Zimmerman, were connected (though it does mention a similarity in method). Still no progress reported. I haven't read anything recently concerning Kelly Nolan. I also didn't find a huge police presence in the city. The only noticeable difference is that they seem to be trying to contain the homeless population.

PS- there was another loon who "escaped" from the UW Hospital during the year. Messages went out to all students. They located the person, if I'm not mistaken, out in CA.
 
  • #142
Hi,

I'm new to the list and see that the comments have tapered off and thought I'd throw in a new angle based on some info I have.

Does anyone here know whether any of the suspects of any of the unsolved crimes were former guards/employees of the Oregon School for Girls which closed down in 1976? Also, what is the proximity of the former OSG to any of the crimes?

tangled web
I'm confused, Tangled Web...are you sure you posted on the right thread? I assume you're talking about the state of Oregon...not sure of the connection with Wisconsin.
 
  • #143
Not sure about the implication either, however any leads should be forwarded to Madison PD.

I'd like to see the take on the FBI thoughts any regards to all these drownings.

Really has to be some kind of connection, from state to state.
 
  • #144
Not sure about the implication either, however any leads should be forwarded to Madison PD.

I'd like to see the take on the FBI thoughts any regards to all these drownings.

Really has to be some kind of connection, from state to state.
Only thing I've read in articles was that they see no connection.
 
  • #145
What I was implying was this:

In 1972, while a juvenile, my now-wife, (who I'm still married to), was incarcerated at Oregon School for Girls in Oregon, Wisconsin (this was 36 years ago). OSfG's shut down in 1976 I believe, or rather became an adult correctional facility.

While there, she observed numerous instances of male guards fraternizing (aka sexual favors for facility privileges) with juvenile female inmates, which included guards taking certain juvenile female inmates off grounds (using their private vehicles) for the weekend for sexual favors and returning them when the weekend was over. Other sexual encounters occurred on grounds also.

My wife also told me that there were numerous suicides at this facility by female inmates. (Gee, I wonder why?) One of those suicides was a friend of my wife's, Joann Williams, a female juvenile inmate whose twin's were taken away from her when she gave birth while at the facility.

Because Kelly Nolan's body was found near Oregon, Wisconsin I thought this might be a lead since these certain guards are still out there living in the community and it appears that the Madison area has had a high incident rate of unsolved rapes, murders, etc. over the years. Correct me if I'm wrong. You don't see LE websites posting their crime statistics very much anymore, do you? (But they sure don't mind posting your criminal record on the internet, no matter how minor, for the rest of eternity, so I don't mind criticizing them eternally in return).

However, off that subject, while I was further checking out a news article posted here (I scoured your site for info) and comparing it with another person, I was able to make what I felt was a strong connection between these two people and Kelly Nolan. I felt that since this connection did not come out in the investigation, it was overlooked. That connection/information I did turn in to Crimestoppers and is totally unrelated to the OSfG's scenario. If they eventually don't develop any leads from it, I still plan on posting that connection/information here eventually in the hopes that someone closer to the events than I am will make a further connection.

[I know how these cases end up forgotten. I remember a case from Milwaukee back in the late 60's, early 70's, (I think?) where a Milwaukee Riverside High School student was abducted and ended up in pieces down just off 7 Mile Rd. in the Racine County area (another area with a high rate of unsolved murders). I can't even think of her name anymore and she sure isn't even mentioned on the Racine LE sites. Her case isn't even mentioned on the internet, in fact. So, that's how cases like these end up (buried and forgotten) unless they are pursued outside LE circles].

I feel that the evidence I found makes a strong connection to why the body was found at this particular location and these two people. I am not implying that these two people had anything to do with the murder (though they could have), but may have been the reason Kelly Nolan ended up where she did. Their connection is way more than just coincidental and I believe you'll agree too once you see it.

I am in no way connected to this case other than having come across Websleuth's site and finding what I feel are strong clues in all the data links posted here, I know no one who lives in this area and I don't live in the Madison area either.

I did notice an incorrect statement at: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1863556/posts where it states: "Wray would not say exactly where the body was discovered, but Patricia Wardell, who lives at 4724 Schneider Road, said it was on the property of her neighbor..."

Using the Dane county property/address locator (I forget what it's called), 4724 Schneider Road was actually the property of the neighbor (location of the body), and the Wardell address was incorrect. Did anyone catch that reporting error?

Thanks for letting me speak my piece...
 
  • #146
Interesting article in today's paper...... SS- I thought you'd particularly find this interesting......

http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/article.php?article=22643

Fresh hope in old murder case
Bill Lueders on Thursday 05/15/2008 http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/article.php?article=22643#articleComments

A recent Wisconsin State Journal story on the upcoming 40th anniversary of UW-Madison student Christine Rothschild's brutal murder contained this discouraging line: "The trail of the murderer could not get any colder, unless the killer is dead too."
Linda Schulko, a friend of Rothschild's who is planning a memorial at the UW Carillon Tower on May 26, 11 am, begs to differ. She finds ample reason to suspect a particular individual, especially in light of information she uncovered two years ago.
In July 2006, after Schulko wrote about the case in an alumni magazine, she received a letter from Rev. Kay Krebs, a pastor in Colorado. It related that on May 26, 1968, when Krebs was a student working at UW Hospital, a surgery resident walked into a hallway where she was gazing outside at a storm and said, "Nice day for a murder."
<SNIP>
Thanks! I am really interested in this!! I would love to know much more.
 
  • #147
Welcome to WS, Tangle! I would like to know more about what you are talking about, too. At this point, any lead is a good one since LE doesn't seem to have ANY!
 
  • #148
What I was implying was this:

In 1972, while a juvenile, my now-wife, (who I'm still married to), was incarcerated at Oregon School for Girls in Oregon, Wisconsin (this was 36 years ago). OSfG's shut down in 1976 I believe, or rather became an adult correctional facility.

While there, she observed numerous instances of male guards fraternizing (aka sexual favors for facility privileges) with juvenile female inmates, which included guards taking certain juvenile female inmates off grounds (using their private vehicles) for the weekend for sexual favors and returning them when the weekend was over. Other sexual encounters occurred on grounds also.

My wife also told me that there were numerous suicides at this facility by female inmates. (Gee, I wonder why?) One of those suicides was a friend of my wife's, Joann Williams, a female juvenile inmate whose twin's were taken away from her when she gave birth while at the facility.

Because Kelly Nolan's body was found near Oregon, Wisconsin I thought this might be a lead since these certain guards are still out there living in the community and it appears that the Madison area has had a high incident rate of unsolved rapes, murders, etc. over the years. Correct me if I'm wrong. You don't see LE websites posting their crime statistics very much anymore, do you? (But they sure don't mind posting your criminal record on the internet, no matter how minor, for the rest of eternity, so I don't mind criticizing them eternally in return).

However, off that subject, while I was further checking out a news article posted here (I scoured your site for info) and comparing it with another person, I was able to make what I felt was a strong connection between these two people and Kelly Nolan. I felt that since this connection did not come out in the investigation, it was overlooked. That connection/information I did turn in to Crimestoppers and is totally unrelated to the OSfG's scenario. If they eventually don't develop any leads from it, I still plan on posting that connection/information here eventually in the hopes that someone closer to the events than I am will make a further connection.

[I know how these cases end up forgotten. I remember a case from Milwaukee back in the late 60's, early 70's, (I think?) where a Milwaukee Riverside High School student was abducted and ended up in pieces down just off 7 Mile Rd. in the Racine County area (another area with a high rate of unsolved murders). I can't even think of her name anymore and she sure isn't even mentioned on the Racine LE sites. Her case isn't even mentioned on the internet, in fact. So, that's how cases like these end up (buried and forgotten) unless they are pursued outside LE circles].

I feel that the evidence I found makes a strong connection to why the body was found at this particular location and these two people. I am not implying that these two people had anything to do with the murder (though they could have), but may have been the reason Kelly Nolan ended up where she did. Their connection is way more than just coincidental and I believe you'll agree too once you see it.

I am in no way connected to this case other than having come across Websleuth's site and finding what I feel are strong clues in all the data links posted here, I know no one who lives in this area and I don't live in the Madison area either.

I did notice an incorrect statement at: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1863556/posts where it states: "Wray would not say exactly where the body was discovered, but Patricia Wardell, who lives at 4724 Schneider Road, said it was on the property of her neighbor..."

Using the Dane county property/address locator (I forget what it's called), 4724 Schneider Road was actually the property of the neighbor (location of the body), and the Wardell address was incorrect. Did anyone catch that reporting error?

Thanks for letting me speak my piece...
Thanks for clearing that up, TangledWeb. I had a feeling that there might have been an Oregon, WI. I apologize for not checking. Your information is quite compelling. I'm not sure what was posted specifically about Kelly because I hadn't followed that thread, but what was brought to my attention (my daughter went to school out in WI) was that Kelly was found in "pieces" (sorry for being graphic). Could that be the reason for the discrepency in the address? I just don't know enough to say. I'll need to go research it more. Unfortunately, you are right about the fact that LE hasn't given very much information. I was also led to believe that Kelly may have known the person she walked away with...or that's what the person who was last with her outside the bar had said.
 
  • #149
It has never been publically stated the COD for Kelly Nolan nor have "pieces" been mentioned.

It is my theory, however, that she was stabbed because intitially LE said without any doubt that she was dead by viewing her from a distance. To me, it means it had to be overtly obvious and not caused by a single gunshot wound or strangulation. IIRC, her body laid there for 3 days as "several" agencies scoured the property surrounding the crime scene for forensic evidence.

I don't think it was confirmed that Kelly actually knew the person she was supposedly handed off to. The bar guy said that the man claimed to know her. Kelly was inhebriated and it is possible she only knew him in passing.
 
  • #150
It has never been publically stated the COD for Kelly Nolan nor have "pieces" been mentioned.

It is my theory, however, that she was stabbed because intitially LE said without any doubt that she was dead by viewing her from a distance. To me, it means it had to be overtly obvious and not caused by a single gunshot wound or strangulation. IIRC, her body laid there for 3 days as "several" agencies scoured the property surrounding the crime scene for forensic evidence.

I don't think it was confirmed that Kelly actually knew the person she was supposedly handed off to. The bar guy said that the man claimed to know her. Kelly was inhebriated and it is possible she only knew him in passing.
SS- I'll have to ask my daughter to clarify that...she was in Madison at the time and that info was known by many of the students. How they came by it, I'll have to verify. And you're right...there was no confirmation that Kelly did in fact "know" the man she walked away with.
 
  • #151
but what was brought to my attention (my daughter went to school out in WI) was that Kelly was found in "pieces"

Now that would be a good reason to bring in over 100 LE's from numerous agencies to scour a large crime scene area and at the same time not disclosing the COD in order to not panic the student community. Also, not to tangle the web, there's nothing more overt than being in pieces.

One thing I also noticed while researching was only one neighbor (out of quite a few) noticed a strong odor in the 17 days since the disappearance. On top of that, he didn't notice any odor until at least a week before the body was discovered. Considering a decomposing body starts smelling within 24 hours after death, one would think that the smell would have been noticed sooner than a week before the victim was found.

Two reasons why the odor wasn't noticed earlier than a week before it was found: The body (or even the pieces, if applicable) were wrapped in plastic or other material (delaying/containing the process of decomposition) and/or the time of death wasn't actually until sometime in the week before the discovery. This would lead one to believe the deceased was possibly still alive until about a week before the body was found.

You'll note from news reports that LE had been out a week earlier than the date the body was found searching this area but could not find anything. Possibly because there was no body and possibly because the "ping" location had changed in the interim? This would lead one to conclude that either the body and cellphone's location had changed in that week or else the victim was still alive until the time of the first search and had been alive in the area but then was killed and her location changed.

One would then wonder where the victim had been the first week and why LE "was confident she was still alive" at that time. (I think I read the above quote somewhere on line)

I don't believe that this was a "stranger killing" but a killing by someone who knew the victim. LE has alluded to this in their comments since the death which can be found in WS links in this thread and on the internet.

One other note: If you "Googlemap" the address from where the victim was last seen and the address of her apartment you'll notice the distance is longer in the direction she was being taken by the bouncer (or she directed the bouncer to take her) than if she had gone the other way? Why? Was she actually being taken to a vehicle (or another location other than her apartment) rather than being walked home?

I didn't read as to how drunk (or drugged) the victim appeared to be at bar time but she must have been coherent enough to tell her first escort where she lived in order for him to start taking her home. Why take the long way home?
 
  • #152
I don't know what map you are using because Kelly's place was pretty much a straight shot from the bar area where she was last seen. I will have to go back to look, but I think it was 2.5 blocks away. I have no doubt she was led directly to a vehicle tho.

We scoured every detail of Kelly's case from Day One. We worked on different scenarios and POIs. I came up with one viable POI, imo. (He went publically bonkers in a few short days following her disappearance.)

The other possible reason no odor was detected could be due to the direction of the wind. However, I believe she was taken there and killed immediately after her abduction. I have found no reason to suspect otherwise.
 
  • #153
I don't know what map you are using because Kelly's place was pretty much a straight shot from the bar area where she was last seen. I will have to go back to look, but I think it was 2.5 blocks away. I have no doubt she was led directly to a vehicle tho.

We scoured every detail of Kelly's case from Day One. We worked on different scenarios and POIs. I came up with one viable POI, imo. (He went publically bonkers in a few short days following her disappearance.)

The other possible reason no odor was detected could be due to the direction of the wind. However, I believe she was taken there and killed immediately after her abduction. I have found no reason to suspect otherwise.
SS- can you tell me if they ever came about a TOD? Also, does LE believe she was killed at the site she was found? Thanks for your help.
 
  • #154
I don't know what map you are using because Kelly's place was pretty much a straight shot from the bar area where she was last seen

You're correct. When I re-Googled Lava Lounge, 461 Gilman St. to Amy's Cafe, 414 Gilman St. to Ambassador Apts, 434 W. Mifflin St., it showed the shorter route is going northeast on Gilman. But, going southwest on Gilman to University Ave just from Lava Lounge (with Amy's Cafe out of the picture) is actually a shorter distance to the apartment on Mifflin.
 
  • #155
but what was brought to my attention (my daughter went to school out in WI) was that Kelly was found in "pieces"

Some quotes/links that allude to the above statement:

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/8440012.html

A forensics team was taking one last look at "soil beneath the area to see if there's any other evidence that can be gleaned," he said.

(How large of an area? Evidence like as in other homicides?)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288727,00.html

Wray said cell-phone technology led police to mount a massive search Monday morning in the area where the body was found. The search focused on a 3-square-mile area around Fitchburg that included part of the neighboring village of Oregon, just off U.S. Highway 14.
Investigators were taking their time with the search for evidence because the area was so large and the death scene was described as complex. Stanley said investigators haven't even touched the body yet.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288652,00.html

The Nolan family has not seen the body, said DeSpain, adding that the discovery of a body has uncovered an unsolved homicide case that is not necessarily linked to Kelly Nolan.

The FBI was assisting the Madison Police Department investigation and the search, Special Agent Doug Porrini of the FBI Milwaukee office told FOXNews.com.

The underlined statement in red is very interesting. (taking into consideration the FBI gets involved in all serial killings)

What "unsolved homicide case" was uncovered during the investigation? Anyone know?
 
  • #156
Some quotes/links that allude to the above statement:

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/8440012.html

A forensics team was taking one last look at "soil beneath the area to see if there's any other evidence that can be gleaned," he said.

(How large of an area? Evidence like as in other homicides?)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288727,00.html

Wray said cell-phone technology led police to mount a massive search Monday morning in the area where the body was found. The search focused on a 3-square-mile area around Fitchburg that included part of the neighboring village of Oregon, just off U.S. Highway 14.
Investigators were taking their time with the search for evidence because the area was so large and the death scene was described as complex. Stanley said investigators haven't even touched the body yet.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288652,00.html

The Nolan family has not seen the body, said DeSpain, adding that the discovery of a body has uncovered an unsolved homicide case that is not necessarily linked to Kelly Nolan.

The FBI was assisting the Madison Police Department investigation and the search, Special Agent Doug Porrini of the FBI Milwaukee office told FOXNews.com.

The underlined statement in red is very interesting. (taking into consideration the FBI gets involved in all serial killings)

What "unsolved homicide case" was uncovered during the investigation? Anyone know?
Goosebump time, TW. The FBI also gets involved in crimes that occur when someone has been transported over state lines (or any crime that occurs across state line, if I'm not mistaken)...so it could mean that this involves someone missing from another state, perhaps? Could this also have led to the "talk" that there were "body parts" found? I have never seen that info...thanks for uncovering it. I want to now go back and read about the nature of the cell phone activity.
 
  • #157
PS-Thanks also TW...I knew I had read somewhere that the search area for evidence was large. I'm of the mindset that she wasn't immediately killed...that she may have been kept alive for some time...any idea of TOD- or how long they assumed she was dead?

PPS- I really need to go dig through all the info...I feel silly asking questions that may have also been asked/answered. I apologize for my lack of knowledge.
 
  • #158
The FBI also gets involved in crimes that occur when someone has been transported over state lines (or any crime that occurs across state line, if I'm not mistaken)...so it could mean that this involves someone missing from another state,

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288652,00.html

"Madison police were assisted in Monday's search with agents from the FBI, Dane County Sheriff's Department, K-9 units and horse search teams. Police agencies from Wisconsin and Illinois as well as numerous volunteers also were helping."

Yes, especially since there were out of state agencies involved.

Also, in rereading the part about the discovery of a body uncovering an unsolved homicide; was this a reference to the same body since at the time they said they weren't sure it was Nolan? That would be weird, though, because it would be like saying the discovery of the body led to the discovery of the same unsolved homicide.
 
  • #159
any idea of TOD- or how long they assumed she was dead?

That I don't know.
 
  • #160
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288652,00.html

"Madison police were assisted in Monday's search with agents from the FBI, Dane County Sheriff's Department, K-9 units and horse search teams. Police agencies from Wisconsin and Illinois as well as numerous volunteers also were helping."

Yes, especially since there were out of state agencies involved.

Also, in rereading the part about the discovery of a body uncovering an unsolved homicide; was this a reference to the same body since at the time they said they weren't sure it was Nolan? That would be weird, though, because it would be like saying the discovery of the body led to the discovery of the same unsolved homicide.
Also, in rereading the part about the discovery of a body uncovering an unsolved homicide; was this a reference to the same body since at the time they said they weren't sure it was Nolan? That would be weird, though, because it would be like saying the discovery of the body led to the discovery of the same unsolved homicide.

Ok...you got me there...not sure what you mean. It could mean they also found something else that "links" other crimes...why wouldn't they have revealed something? Same thing with Zimmerman...it took awhile to find out any info. I heard that it was "brutal" as well...as I believe Nolan's was. I know any murder is "brutal", but something tells me this goes beyond the norm...so perhaps there are tell-tale signs here...like LE has "seen" this before (?)
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
121
Guests online
2,949
Total visitors
3,070

Forum statistics

Threads
633,036
Messages
18,635,373
Members
243,388
Latest member
Leo :) <3
Back
Top