Witness accounts

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jjenny said:
Trayvon did have an abrasion on a finger.
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I know, but even if one believes that that one 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch abrasion is consistent with TM sucker punching GZ (which I myself don't), it still doesn't make sense to me that TM was able to pound GZ's head into concrete without suffering any other injuries in return.

For one thing, how could TM have held onto GZ's head to pound it into the concrete? We've seen the pictures of GZ and his close-cropped hair. Clearly TM couldn't have grabbed that hair to bang his head into the ground.

So the only hand-hold I can possibly imagine for this story to be true is that TM grabbed GZ's ears? But GZ said nothing of the sort. So how exactly was TM able to get a strong enough grip on GZ's head to pound it into the ground? And do so without suffering any other scrapes to his hands?

If he had a strong enough grip to do it without holding onto ears or hair, we would have seen photographs of fingermarks on GZ's head. But we haven't. And we've seen a lot of photographs of GZ's head in the past few days.

JMO as always.
 
AJ Noiter said:
He did in the 911 call only after being asked. More proof that Mr. Zimmerman is _not_ racist.
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No, I was talking about John. In the 911 call he says there is a dead black guy but in his police report he does not say anything about race.
 
Just K said:
The biggest problem I have with GZ's stories, about all kinds of subjects, he leaves out the parts that make him look bad. I think, he is doing that here.
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What parts are those? Especially the parts that you would relate in detail to a neighbor after you just shot and killed someone. Seems that the part that makes him look most bad i.e., that he just shot Trayvon, was not left out and was, instead, reiterated.
 
How did John miss Zimmerman straddling Trayvon with his hands on his back and not hear the yelling take my gun I just shot someone.
 
Anyone got a link to the audio recordings of the released witness interviews beside the NYT one?
 
Dr.Fessel said:
How did John miss Zimmerman straddling Trayvon with his hands on his back and not hear the yelling take my gun I just shot someone.
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He did go upstairs after being on his porch in order to call 911.
 
IzzyBlanche said:
BBM and snipped for focus.

ITA but then by the same token, there are no injuries to Trayvon's hands supporting him beating up GZ either, except for the one small abrasion that IMO is inconsistent with that scenario.

So hypothetically? If the scuffle did not consist of either one beating up the other?

What was truly going on?

My questions aren't addressed to you personally, just thinking out loud as it were and again jumping off from your post.
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I want to know the answers to those questions too, Izzy.

IMO, If Trayvon had no injuries to his hands except for the small inbrasion and GZ had no injuries to his hands....there was no fight. So what they hell were they doing?

As far as the small inbrasion on the top of GZ nose??? It might have been caused by the same "thing" that caused the small inbrasion on Trayvon's finger.....just a thought.

Who was the witness that said they saw a scuffle? IMO, that's exactly what it is was....Now, I don't believe GZ sustained his injuries by Trayvon hitting him with his hands? I think there was shoving, grabbing, pushing, etc. Not to mention Trayvon didn't even have GZ DNA under his nails. WTH? IMO, even if Trayvon didn't cause GZ injuries to his face, but Trayvon touched him on his face with the bloody nose and all or on the back of the head where blood ran out...he would have at least had DNA under his nails. I don't believe there were punches thrown...Can you picture one person grabbing, trying to take hold of someone and the other person is pushing trying to get loose? I picture Trayvon pushing on GZ trying to get loose as GZ tried to hold onto him. That's why there's no DNA under Trayvon's nails. Didn't GZ have on that jacket?

I got to say, the way that GZ clothes look, especially on the back of his clothing....IMO, GZ's back side never touched the wet grass....So I don't picture GZ EVER on the bottom of that scuffle. JMO

I guess I got a little carried away...sorry...so to stay on topic...

I don't believe any witness who said GZ was on the bottom. JMO
 
Dr.Fessel said:
No, I was talking about John. In the 911 call he says there is a dead black guy but in his police report he does not say anything about race.
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My apologies, I saw someone else speaking about Mr. Zimmerman and figured you were too. I know "John" said he couldn't make out the races, but he did say what colors the individuals were wearing - which is more than I could've done. Even in the brightly lit 7-11 video Mr. Martin's hoodie looks to be a dark green color to me.
 
IzzyBlanche said:
I know, but even if one believes that that one 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch abrasion is consistent with TM sucker punching GZ (which I myself don't), it still doesn't make sense to me that TM was able to pound GZ's head into concrete without suffering any other injuries in return.

For one thing, how could TM have held onto GZ's head to pound it into the concrete? We've seen the pictures of GZ and his close-cropped hair. Clearly TM couldn't have grabbed that hair to bang his head into the ground.
Click to expand...

Have you ever tried? It's not hard to grab a human head - even with one hand. He wouldn't have had to lift it very far - in fact, he couldn't as the neck would only bend so far. As I've stated since long before autopsy came out - no bruises on Mr. Martin is proof for the defense, not the prosecution.

So the only hand-hold I can possibly imagine for this story to be true is that TM grabbed GZ's ears? But GZ said nothing of the sort. So how exactly was TM able to get a strong enough grip on GZ's head to pound it into the ground? And do so without suffering any other scrapes to his hands?

If he had a strong enough grip to do it without holding onto ears or hair, we would have seen photographs of fingermarks on GZ's head. But we haven't. And we've seen a lot of photographs of GZ's head in the past few days.

JMO as always.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. You can squeeze a head between the palms of your hands as you're beating it into the ground. Where would the finger marks be then? Again, no injuries on Mr. Martin is proof for the defense. I have not seen a single statement made that makes me conclude that Mr. Martin should have -any- injuries. Some saliva from placing his hand over Mr. Zimmerman's mouth - possibly, but I didn't see that it was even tested and that's not an injury anyway.


Edit: In fact, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that it would be WRONG for Mr. Martin to have any injuries from beating someone's head into the ground. If it were ME doing it I would place the heal of my hands into the temples and extend my fingers to the top of the head. You can easily grip a head just like that and you would not have any injuries at all.
 
Dr.Fessel said:
This is very interesting.

The EMT who treated George Zimmerman said he made no statements while he was treating him. He was quiet. That isn't what Officer Smith said.

Last tape here. http://axiomamnesia.com/2012/05/18/...ase-witness-interviews-statements-full-audio/

Here officer Smith says he overheard Zimmerman saying he was yelling for help and nobody would help him.



http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
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I'm not sure what that first link is, I didn't read it, but I believe from Officer Smith's report, Mr. Zimmerman didn't say that until the ride to the police station, which wouldn't have been heard by the EMT.
 
liedetector said:
For whatever it's worth, didn't the 13 year old's mother retain an attorney afterwards claiming her son repeatedly told the interviewing PO from the start that he didn't know what he saw "it was too dark," but that the PO kept pressing her son for answers, and "led" him into saying what he did? ...So you're right about this particular witness, I can't imagine anything the 13 year old said being of value to either side.
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IF you listen to the 911 call from that boys sister and him,what he said when the mother was not home is different after the mother got involved.IMO The boys own words on that 911 call show the true events he saw that night.His own words about what he saw before anyone had any time to lead him into changing his story.If I was on a jury I would disregard any of his statements except for that initial call. I also wonder if Mr.Crump had spoken to this boy or his mother before his mother retained a lawyer for her son.Very weird to hire a lawyer because your son saw very little as per his 911 call IMO MOM hopefully will be looking into exactly why the mother needed a lawyer and who might have influenced this kids story.You do not need to hire a lawyer if you feel police "led your son or twisted his words"A call to the prosecutors office explaining what was going on was all that was necessary IMO.They would have handled her complaint. I find getting an attorney for a witness very strange and not something you really would even think of doing IMO.The average family does not have unlimited funds in today's time and I doubt the lawyer is doing it for free.If the mother just told the media she believed the police were trying to lead her son, I am sure the prosecutor's office would have gotten in touch with her since they are the lawyers that are in a sense representing TM and seeking justice on his behalf.This is a very high profile case but I can not remember any other high profile cases where a very limited witness hired their own lawyer.Only way I would part with my hard earned money for a lawyer is if I was afraid the police were trying to involve my son in the actual crime.JMO
 
AJ Noiter said:
I'm not sure what that first link is, I didn't read it, but I believe from Officer Smith's report, Mr. Zimmerman didn't say that until the ride to the police station, which wouldn't have been heard by the EMT.
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Nope, Officer Smith said he overheard the Zimmerman tell the EMT that while he was treating him in the back of the police car.



officersmith2.jpg




http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
 
AJ Noiter said:
Have you ever tried? It's not hard to grab a human head - even with one hand. He wouldn't have had to lift it very far - in fact, he couldn't as the neck would only bend so far. As I've stated since long before autopsy came out - no bruises on Mr. Martin is proof for the defense, not the prosecution.



Not necessarily. You can squeeze a head between the palms of your hands as you're beating it into the ground. Where would the finger marks be then? Again, no injuries on Mr. Martin is proof for the defense. I have not seen a single statement made that makes me conclude that Mr. Martin should have -any- injuries. Some saliva from placing his hand over Mr. Zimmerman's mouth - possibly, but I didn't see that it was even tested and that's not an injury anyway.


Edit: In fact, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that it would be WRONG for Mr. Martin to have any injuries from beating someone's head into the ground. If it were ME doing it I would place the heal of my hands into the temples and extend my fingers to the top of the head. You can easily grip a head just like that and you would not have any injuries at all.
Click to expand...

IMO, it just depends on how you look at it..The fact that Trayvon had no injuries only the small abrasion on his finger, tells me that Trayvon never laid a hand on GZ. GZ supposedly suffered a broken nose, two black eyes , head being bashed into the sidewalk but yet Trayvon avoided these attacks with his hands? The prosection emphasized this beating resulting from Trayvon using his "hands". IMO,, they know that to sustain those types of injuries that GZ had, using your hands, there would be evidence of that beating....Yet, Trayvon had none.

I think they would call on experts who could describe the type of bruising expected to show up on one's hands after breaking a nose, blacking two eyes, and banging someone's head onto cement.

JMO though
 
suspicious1 said:
IMO, it just depends on how you look at it..The fact that Trayvon had no injuries only the small abrasion on his finger, tells me that Trayvon never laid a hand on GZ. GZ supposedly suffered a broken nose, two black eyes , head being bashed into the sidewalk but yet Trayvon avoided these attacks with his hands? The prosection emphasized this beating resulting from Trayvon using his "hands". IMO,, they know that to sustain those types of injuries that GZ had, using your hands, there would be evidence of that beating....Yet, Trayvon had none.

I think they would call on experts who could describe the type of bruising expected to show up on one's hands after breaking a nose, blacking two eyes, and banging someone's head onto cement.

JMO though
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What? So now you get bruises from putting your hand on someone? Read the last part of what you quoted. It's VERY possible to beat someone's head into the ground with NO injuries at all. You have stated nothing to refute my comment other than "well, you get bruises from skin meeting skin" (paraphrased, obviously).
 
Just K said:
OMG, there are just so many/too many mistakes or missing pieces!

What this says to me are recorded conversations and comments re: Serino with witnesses tell me that SPD didn't put much detail or effort into the reports because...it seems, they thought this was an open and closed case. IMO!
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It is an open and shut case but because of the public outrage from all the mis truths in every newspaper since we all first became aware of this case were charges even pressed.IMO Self defense was used because TM assaulted GZ 911 calls confirm who was on top of whom,. IMO on any crime investigation if lies are told daily in the news and people like Mr.Crump stating their views as hard facts,witness saying one thing on 911 calls then changing their stories weeks later and selling them to the enquirer it sure would make the police look like they did not do their job but IMO mostly was investigated just like the last crimes committed without the above things surrounding it.JMO
 
suspicious1 said:
IMO, it just depends on how you look at it..The fact that Trayvon had no injuries only the small abrasion on his finger, tells me that Trayvon never laid a hand on GZ. GZ supposedly suffered a broken nose, two black eyes , head being bashed into the sidewalk but yet Trayvon avoided these attacks with his hands? The prosection emphasized this beating resulting from Trayvon using his "hands". IMO,, they know that to sustain those types of injuries that GZ had, using your hands, there would be evidence of that beating....Yet, Trayvon had none.

I think they would call on experts who could describe the type of bruising expected to show up on one's hands after breaking a nose, blacking two eyes, and banging someone's head onto cement.

JMO though
Click to expand...

There are medical pictures,responders,and also police and EMT reports stating the extensive injuries that a 28 yr old man received within a very short but brutal assault. I do not understand now that documents have been released how it could be stated that George Zimmerman injuries are that he
supposedly suffered a broken nose, two black eyes , head being bashed into the sidewalk that was written above.He did receive these injuries there is proof. I have watched boxing since I was very young and can remember Ali being in the ring looking "Pretty" as he always called himself and his opponent looking a bleeding mess in 1 round. The Length of a Boxing Round for men is 3 min ,of course TM was not a pro boxer but if you have ever watched a match that 3 minutes sure seems like a long time.TM surprised GZ with his first punch and TM did not stop fighting until GZ had no choice but to stop him IMO.Most people do not bruise after death that could be why TM hands didn't bruise.There was nothing supposed about GZ injuries,the fact is he was beaten by TM without a doubt.
 
stmarysmead said:
So GZ had his nose in TM's chest and somehow raised his gun while underneath TM...thereby breaking his nose and killing TM at the same exact time.

I would like to see THAT demonstrated in court.
Click to expand...

Danged if I don't think this is a GREAT idea! So many things could get cleared up with George, and some random black dude in a hoodie, doing a re enactment right there on the floor of the courtroom!

TMGetToGun4-1.jpg


-To start with, George could show us how he was able to get his hand under/around TM's legs to even get to the little gun inside his pants!

-Then maybe we could get George to work us through, just exactly, where/how he was able to position the gun in order to send a bullet from front to rear, directly through TM's heart, with no up or down angular path for the projectile noted on the ME's report!

-While they were in the "nose to nose" position noted above, George could show us how he was able to fire this bullet from the "intermediate" position of 6" to 2' described by the ME!

-Last, but certainly not least, the other dude could place his hands over George's mouth and nose affording him the perfect opportunity to demonstrate his unique ability to still render those screams heard on the 911 tape right up to the instant of the gunshot!

I hereby nominate this teriffic idea as WS's "Idea" of the case!

Wonder what the odds are of O'Mara going along with it?
 
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