Witness accounts

[suzihawk]

Interview by SA office. Co-worker describes Zimmerman as a bully:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...rker-described-Zimmerman-as-bully#pl-68832490

 

[howitis]

so far there is no indication of any crime lawfully or even morally, i'm just wondering if the state has a bombshell because of a screw up by GZ in the interview(big screw up),

in this type of situation even innocent people can try to minimize what they've done because of the shock of killing a person and being pressured by LE as if they did something wrong,

this could actually coax someone to tell a "minimize" fib that makes them look guilty or just a liar....when they were actually lawful,

maybe like saying TM circled the car and was glaring

i wonder if this could have happened.

 

[LambChop]

so far there is no indication of any crime lawfully or even morally, i'm just wondering if the state has a bombshell because of a screw up by GZ in the interview(big screw up),

in this type of situation even innocent people can try to minimize what they've done because of the shock of killing a person and being pressured by LE as if they did something wrong,

this could actually coax someone to tell a "minimize" fib that makes them look guilty or just a liar....when they were actually lawful,

maybe like saying TM circled the car and was glaring

i wonder if this could have happened.

Or that the fight might have actually started because GZ tried to keep TM from walking away. Whatever happened MOM is not too happy with GZ's statements to LE. jmo

 

[Just K]

Or that the fight might have actually started because GZ tried to keep TM from walking away. Whatever happened MOM is not too happy with GZ's statements to LE. jmo

If for even one second GZ detained TM, even if by verbal intimidation or threat, in any way and there is proof to such a claim...GZ is up the creek without a paddle

IANAL yet it would appear, based on at least two witness statements, that the "fighting" had ended (Per TWO witnesses, maybe more) and TM, after seeing the gun, was in the process of trying to extricate himself from GZ, then GZ would technically be the aggressor as Trayvon was trying to Retreat.

Legally, it will be interesting if the Defense can avoid having GZ's statements made public. At no time, in those first few weeks was GZ arrested so, technically, they may not legally be "confessions". GZ was claiming he had a right to extinguish Trayvon's life and the State was not accusing him of any crime...at that point in time.

 

[LambChop]

If for even one second GZ detained TM, even if by verbal intimidation or threat, in any way and there is proof to such a claim...GZ is up the creek without a paddle

IANAL yet it would appear, based on at least two witness statements, that the "fighting" had ended (Per TWO witnesses, maybe more) and TM, after seeing the gun, was in the process of trying to extricate himself from GZ, then GZ would technically be the aggressor as Trayvon was trying to Retreat.

Legally, it will be interesting if the Defense can avoid having GZ's statements made public. At no time, in those first few weeks was GZ arrested so, technically, they may not legally be "confessions". GZ was claiming he had a right to extinguish Trayvon's life and the State was not accusing him of any crime...at that point in time.

LE should have read him his rights when they put him in cuffs. I would say because MOM has not claimed SPD didn't, that they did. It's still a homocide so reading him his rights once he is cuffed is in order. I believe that is why MOM is saying those statements are confessions and he wants them out of the public eye until the trial. I think they will try to plea it down to manslaughter so he serves the least amount of time. We hear MOM saying more and more when evidence comes out, "We'll deal with it." So I'm thinking MOM is starting to get a clearer picture of what really happened. jmo

 

[stmarysmead]

Observations:
page 15- Officer Jonathan Mead said he knew GZ to be the head of the neighborhood watch program. He said, at the scene, that GZ appeared to have a broken and bloody nose, and swelling on his face. Keep in mind, this was in the police investigation reports, but was never included in the PCA filed by Corey.

page 27- Someone, don’t know who, possibly Det Chris Serino, said that the incident was avoidable if GZ remained in his vehicle. Out of 183 pages, this is what the media has picked up, and is flying with it, as though it was the only thing that mattered in the entire investigation.

page 39- Tracy Martin, when he called to report TM missing, that “he went to the store, but never returned.” The stories we’ve gotten have been that he thought he went to the movies with a cousin, right. If he knew that TM had gone to the store at 6PM, and never returned, why wait to call the police until the next morning? Nothing was noted in the police reports about any statements from Tracy as to his whereabouts the night before. Nothing. No Orlando restaurant, noting about when he got home, nothing. Haven’t we heard about Brandy saying he was sitting on the porch, and was shot there? How about any statements from <modsnip>? isn’t he the one who said TM went to the store to get skittles? Not a word from <modsnip>. Nothing.

page 42- On 3/9 they were faxed the GZ medical report from his doctor. Gilbreth testified at the bond hearing that he never saw or requested the GZ medical reports. Corey never included the first peep about GZ medical report or condition in the PCA.

Now to my biggest find in this document dump by the prosecution-

Someone from the SPD, Serino?, is shown twice to make statements about GZ having called 911, 4 times to report suspicious persons, who were all “black males.” Didn’t we hear at first that GZ had called 911 something like 40 times? yet the person picks out just 4 incidents, where the person was black? The dates listed by that person were 2 dates in Aug. 2011, one date in Oct. 2011, and one in Feb. 2012. They then show the complex Newsletters from a few different months. There is a write up in the Sept. 2011 newsletter about the increase in break-in’s, and says that there were 3 break-in’s in the previous month. Wouldn’t that be in August, when GZ called in two times? Some people from the SPD were invited to come and speak at a meeting in late Sept., invited by GZ. There were about 25 people who attended that meeting. The police officer went back and forth with emails as to that meeting with GZ. He was obviously in contact with the SPD. He inquired about any arrest from one of the incidents. The officer said that they had fingerprint info, but couldn’t locate the perp. Other’s in that community had identified some of the suspicious people as young black males. Didn’t a black female tell a reported that the 800 lb elephant in the room was that it was young black males that were the culprits?

Yet George Zimmerman was reported to the FBI as being a racist.

Oh, and why would the police include an anonymous phone call they received, by a female who would not identify hersel, as accusing GZ as a racist? Is that the only anonymous call the SPD ever received, or was their an alternative motive in including that info. Sure sounds to me like someone/s at SPD was trying hard to find a racial motive to this incident.

This should disturb all of us...because our attention needs to be on legitimate racial incidents...legitamate types of "profiling" that have no validity to statistics...legitamite "hate crimes" where race is the ONLY issue. This is cheapening the quest to eradicate the real stuff.

GZ is no racist who set out to kill a Black child for no reason. He was not "stalking" him because of his race...he was watching him because statistically that racially diverse neighborhood was being targeted by other young men...and sick of it.

 

[sleonardelli]

If for even one second GZ detained TM, even if by verbal intimidation or threat, in any way and there is proof to such a claim...GZ is up the creek without a paddle

IANAL yet it would appear, based on at least two witness statements, that the "fighting" had ended (Per TWO witnesses, maybe more) and TM, after seeing the gun, was in the process of trying to extricate himself from GZ, then GZ would technically be the aggressor as Trayvon was trying to Retreat.

Legally, it will be interesting if the Defense can avoid having GZ's statements made public. At no time, in those first few weeks was GZ arrested so, technically, they may not legally be "confessions". GZ was claiming he had a right to extinguish Trayvon's life and the State was not accusing him of any crime...at that point in time.

Do you know what pages those were on or which witness audio recordings those were? I have only listened to 2 of those witness recording and one indicated she believe GZ was on top.

 

[jjenny]

Do you know what pages those were on or which witness audio recordings those were? I have only listened to 2 of those witness recording and one indicated she believe GZ was on top.

I don't understand how Zimmerman could have possibly been the one on top, beating Trayvon up, and yet Trayvon has no injuries whatsoever to his face, head or neck.
"John" described what he saw, including clothing, and it's clear to me, based on "John's" statement, that Zimmerman was the one on the bottom getting beat up.

 

[sleonardelli]

Based on the definition I'd have to say Mr. Martin asking Mr. Zimmerman the first question very well could show who started the confrontation. It doesn't say anything about who assaulted who.

Why should I listen to his neighbor/friend/whatever he is? He has no relevance to this case other than a 2nd hand account of what happened that night, and we know that second hand accounts can't be wrong, right? Or can the 2nd hand accounts only have misunderstandings for Mr. Martin's side? Either way, he's getting his "15 minutes of fame" and people are eating up every word he says and basing accusations on it. It's silly, in my opinion. Who cares if Mr. Zimmerman likes to walk his dog while carrying his 9mm? I do too!

The GF (ear witness) indicated Trayvon told her "He's getting close" (indicating GZ is moving towards Trayvon) before Trayvon asked GZ "Why are you following me" (IMO, that is NOT a confrontational question) and GZ asked "What are you doing here". Then, she says she heard Trayvon say something like "Get off get off" (sounds to me like GZ puts hands on Trayvon perhaps in an attempt to detain). http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...nd-on-what-she-heard-on-the-phone#pl-68832490 (1:42)

 

[jjenny]

The GF (ear witness) indicated Trayvon told her "He's getting close" (indicating GZ is moving towards Trayvon) before Trayvon asked GZ "Why are you following me" (IMO, that is NOT a confrontational question) and GZ asked "What are you doing here". Then, she says she heard Trayvon say something like "Get off get off" (sounds to me like GZ puts hands on Trayvon perhaps in an attempt to detain). http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...nd-on-what-she-heard-on-the-phone#pl-68832490 (1:42)

"Get off" appears to be a recent development. Even Mr. Crump was saying last thing she heard was someone hitting the phone. And from what we know about memory, it doesn't usually get better with time.

"She hears the altercation, suddenly, someone just hit the phone, because that's the last she hears," Crump says."

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...-on-cellphone-when-he-was-shot/1#.T7fc6VLwGSo

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Well it appears "John's" story is starting to crumble.

A key witness to the Trayvon Martin shooting changed the story he had given Sanford, Fla., police, telling state authorities he was not sure who was screaming during the altercation with George Zimmerman, NBC Dateline confirmed Friday.

The man known as Witness #6 originally told Sanford police Zimmerman cried for help. The witness stuck to his account that he saw Martin, 17, straddling Zimmerman and pinning him to the ground before Martin was shot.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...ness-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-changed-story

 

[jjenny]

Well it appears "John's" story is starting to crumble.

A key witness to the Trayvon Martin shooting changed the story he had given Sanford, Fla., police, telling state authorities he was not sure who was screaming during the altercation with George Zimmerman, NBC Dateline confirmed Friday.

The man known as Witness #6 originally told Sanford police Zimmerman cried for help. The witness stuck to his account that he saw Martin, 17, straddling Zimmerman and pinning him to the ground before Martin was shot.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...ness-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-changed-story

He didn't change his story. He still claims he saw Zimmerman getting beat up by Trayvon. What he said in subsequent interview is that he is not sure it was Zimmerman who was screaming for help because he couldn't see the lips moving. Which to me only goes to his honesty.
We've all discussed this before. None of them could actually see which guy was screaming (lips moving). Even though a bunch of them appear to speculate it was Trayvon (despite the fact that some of them didn't see much of anything). "John" who actually appears to give the most details, including clothing, says in subsequent interview he assumed it was Zimmerman because Zimmerman was the one on the bottom. But he doesn't change his story about Zimmerman being the one on the bottom.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

He didn't change his story. He still claims he saw Zimmerman getting beat up by Trayvon. What he said in subsequent interview is that he is not sure it was Zimmerman who was screaming for help because he couldn't see the lips moving. Which to me only goes to his honesty.
We've all discussed this before. None of them could actually see which guy was screaming (lips moving). Even though a bunch of them appear to speculate it was Trayvon (despite the fact that some of them didn't see much of anything). "John" who actually appears to give the most details, including clothing, says in subsequent interview he assumed it was Zimmerman because Zimmerman was the one on the bottom. But he doesn't change his story about Zimmerman being the one on the bottom.

I think the State is going to let the defense have the witness "John".

 

[jjenny]

I think the State is going to let the defense have the witness "John".

I think so too. He doesn't help them any. But that is neither here nor there.

 

[Murdock]

Observations:

(snipped for space)

Yet George Zimmerman was reported to the FBI as being a racist.

Oh, and why would the police include an anonymous phone call they received, by a female who would not identify hersel, as accusing GZ as a racist? Is that the only anonymous call the SPD ever received, or was their an alternative motive in including that info. Sure sounds to me like someone/s at SPD was trying hard to find a racial motive to this incident.

This should disturb all of us...because our attention needs to be on legitimate racial incidents...legitamate types of "profiling" that have no validity to statistics...legitamite "hate crimes" where race is the ONLY issue. This is cheapening the quest to eradicate the real stuff.

GZ is no racist who set out to kill a Black child for no reason. He was not "stalking" him because of his race...he was watching him because statistically that racially diverse neighborhood was being targeted by other young men...and sick of it.

BBM
I enjoyed reading your post.

I want to comment on the portion in bold. I don't think they threw that into the doc dump to make GZ look like a racist. From what I remember of the "other Florida case", everything gets turned over in discovery & then released under the Sunshine Law. Even the irrelevant stuff that will never be used in trial.

 

[Concerned Papa]

This is the Witness thread, isn't it? This one seems kinda interesting:

Wonder who was chasing who?

 

[jjenny]

I think whatever she saw could have been people who arrived on the scene, and were not either Zimmerman or Trayvon. I think there some people who arrived with flashlights? Did she even have them running toward the scene or away from it? If it's away from the scene I think it could have been a 13 year old boy chasing after his dog.

 

[TorisMom003]

Or that the fight might have actually started because GZ tried to keep TM from walking away. Whatever happened MOM is not too happy with GZ's statements to LE. jmo

How's this for an ooops moment:

Pg 138 of 183
Medical Examiner Case Report
Case Summary:
ECC contacted Fl Malphurs of an apparent death in Sanford in the courtyard behind 2861 Retreat View Circle. Person of contact (POC) was SPD Inv. Serino. POC advised of an unknown B/M who had been shot by a resident of the complex. POC stated the following:

At approximately 1910 hours on 02/26/2012, 911 dispatchers received a call from a resident of the complex. That resident advised of a B/M who was at the complex between the townhomes. The caller stated that the male should not have been in the area and he observed the male while walking his neighborhood watch. Shortly after the call the resident confronted the male and the two began to physically fight. Witnesses observed the two fighting in the yard and then the resident fired a handgun at the male striking him in the chest. The male fell to the ground. SPD and SFD arrived on scene. The male was pronounced dead at 1930 hours. The identity of the male was unknown.
Link for the above:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/S...-by-prosecutor


It's to bad that MOM couldn't redact that part from the autopsy report but it does give us insight as to what Zimmerman told SPD that night.

MOO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

In Zimmerman's statement according to the bond hearing Trayvon punched him in the nose knocking him down.

This mark is not from a punch IMO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/george-zimmerman-photos_n_1526045.html

 

[Dr.Fessel]

This is the Witness thread, isn't it? This one seems kinda interesting:

Wonder who was chasing who?

That report bothers me because the officer leaves the actual T undescribed since each T on the ends of that sidewalk go to the same streets.