Witness accounts

[AJ Noiter]

They would probably do a reenactment at dark just to make sure the people could really see what they said they saw. It would be prudent.

They did a reenactment before they asked the shooter what happened? Hm. Odd.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

So you really have nothing factual to base this... theory on?

I don't think I implied any facts at all. I started the sentence with "Just a guess but I have a feeling".

One fact we do know, he changed his story.

 

[Just K]

The MMA style fighting and the calls for help have been backtracked, why would he have ever said he saw MMA style fighting, I think that renders everything he says pretty useless. Did he get any 'coaching' from LE in the beginning that maybe made him think it was a certain way, the kind that some other witnesses complained about?

But that's just MO of course

On the taped interview the interviewer offers the phrase "ground & pound," to which "John" agrees by repeating the phrase. If that's not "coaching" I don't know what is...

 

[saguaro]

When witnesses change their stories I worry about collusion.

IMO!

 

[Just K]

If any member of LE tried to sway a witness's statement one way or another, they are guilty of obstruction of justice or at the minimum gross ineptitude. If it's shown that this in fact happened, even by a single officer, I believe it will seriously harm the prosecutions case. JMO.

Add to that the fact that they moved evidence from the ground and into TM's pocket.

The headphones were on the ground yet were not photographed as they were found, tagged or bagged separately.

His Button...how the hell did it end up in his pocket. Why was that not photographed, tagged and bagged separately

The red 7-11 lighter...all of this was given one evidence number and said to be found within his pockets.

And then there is the Arizona Drink..it actually was in his pocket but is photographed, tagged and placed on top of TM's blanketed body and who knows if it was even bagged.

When the ME found the lone Dime...they didn't note where they found it.

This was a shame investigation...all assuming this GZ was telling the truth...what a boatload of &h!t. Thinking about $h!t... did they test the bottom of GZ's shoes to see if he slipped in rained on dog poop. In every neighborhood there is always someone who doesn't scoop and he could have slipped in that BUT did CSI's test either TM or GZ's shoes for dog poop?

There is no mention of whether they found anything on the shoes of either or on the knees and elbows of either's clothes.

 

[Just K]

This certainly explains why the individual you speak of in your example was telling TELEVISION CAMERAS that it was red. Was the officer standing behind the camera nodding his head there too?

Did you forget that before newsmen got inside the crime scene tape that "John/Jeremy" was yacking with a group of cops and CSI's and was photographed doing so...he was probably led into his statement then and there. His 911 call was the briefest of all of them. He gave no such details in his 911 call and his wife was supposedly within feet or yards of her husband and she doesn't even mention that her husband is observing specifics...

 

[AJ Noiter]

Did you forget that before newsmen got inside the crime scene tape that "John/Jeremy" was yacking with a group of cops and CSI's and was photographed doing so...he was probably led into his statement then and there. His 911 call was the briefest of all of them. He gave no such details in his 911 call and his wife was supposedly within feet or yards of he husband and she doesn't even mention that her husband is observing specifics...

Would you mind explaining to me how "John's" statements at any time is relevant to a separate young man making statements on television to a news reporter stating that the person wearing "red" was on bottom? Getting back to the context, could you explain to me how this statement was somehow coerced by an officer doing an investigation when there is no clear indication that an officer was anywhere near the young man at the time?

 

[Just K]

Only one man called 911 and only one man, the same man, told them "to stop..." We know that Jeremy called 911.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Interesting read:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...hange-stories-in-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

Newspaper: 4 witnesses change stories in Trayvon Martin shooting

Witness 2
A young woman from the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, where Martin, 17, was shot Feb. 26, first told investigators she saw two men running and a fist fight. She later said she only saw one person running and couldn’t distinguish much because she had removed her contact lenses.

Witness 12
A young mother in the townhome community first said she saw two men on the ground but wasn’t sure who was on top; she later said Zimmerman was on top because she recognized his size based on news reports.

Witness 13
A male neighbor first said Zimmerman, with a bloodied head, told him he had to shoot Martin because he was beating up on me and to please call Zimmerman’s wife. He later went into detail and described Zimmerman’s tone right after the shooting as casual, like the shooting was nothing.

Witness 6
A male neighbor, whose story change was initially reported Friday, first told police Martin was on top of Zimmerman and throwing down punches mixed martial arts style. He also first said Zimmerman was calling for help. The man later said he wasn’t sure who was yelling for help, and that Martin may have merely pinned Zimmerman to the ground. He was still sure, however, that Martin was on top.

 

[LambChop]

Would you mind explaining to me how "John's" statements at any time is relevant to a separate young man making statements on television to a news reporter stating that the person wearing "red" was on bottom? Getting back to the context, could you explain to me how this statement was somehow coerced by an officer doing an investigation when there is no clear indication that an officer was anywhere near the young man at the time?

I think the mother said that the young man tried to tell the officers he did could not see a color but the officer insisted he give them a color such as if you had to say a color which one would you choose? I'm guessing in the interview he is just repeating what he believed was true. This mother was not the only witness that claim LE was leading with their questions to get the right answers.

I know I have seen them do interviews as an experiment as to what people really see. Afterwards suggestions were made to them prior to them answering questions. Most of the witnesses were wrong because they were influence more by the conversation afterwards then they were viewing the actual event. Witnesses being outside and hearing GZ talking to LE or a neighbor colors their testimonies, too, and that could be why they are changing their statements. If they were all consistent we could trust their testimonies. But changing them either way, not good. jmo

 

[Karmady]

When witnesses change their stories I worry about collusion.

IMO!

I would say there is significant pressure not to be the star witness for the defense. jmo

 

[Just K]

No one used the word "coerced"

..."suggestions, suggested, are you sures" and other leading questions would be more accurate terms.

 

[Karmady]

Interesting read:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...hange-stories-in-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

Newspaper: 4 witnesses change stories in Trayvon Martin shooting

Witness 2
A young woman from the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, where Martin, 17, was shot Feb. 26, first told investigators she saw two men running and a fist fight. She later said she only saw one person running and couldn’t distinguish much because she had removed her contact lenses.

Witness 12
A young mother in the townhome community first said she saw two men on the ground but wasn’t sure who was on top; she later said Zimmerman was on top because she recognized his size based on news reports.

Witness 13
A male neighbor first said Zimmerman, with a bloodied head, told him he had to shoot Martin because he was beating up on me and to please call Zimmerman’s wife. He later went into detail and described Zimmerman’s tone right after the shooting as casual, like the shooting was nothing.

Witness 6
A male neighbor, whose story change was initially reported Friday, first told police Martin was on top of Zimmerman and throwing down punches mixed martial arts style. He also first said Zimmerman was calling for help. The man later said he wasn’t sure who was yelling for help, and that Martin may have merely pinned Zimmerman to the ground. He was still sure, however, that Martin was on top.

And compare witness 13's version with the witness that said that George was walking around with his hands on his head in an "oh chit" fashion and finally yelled for her (?) to "just call 911."

 

[m00c0w]

I don't think I implied any facts at all. I started the sentence with "Just a guess but I have a feeling".

One fact we do know, he changed his story.

Just a guess, but I have a feeling he changed his story because he feared potential repercussions by the violent extremists that showed up in this case and perhaps an overbearing prosecution staff. imo

<modsnip>

 

[Just K]

I would say there is significant pressure not to be the star witness for the defense. jmo

And once you begin to see what being the "star witness" really means, one might want to distance himself from such a Nationally and Locally High Profile Case.

 

[jjenny]

Well if she now says she only saw one person running then it could have been 13 year old whose dog run away.

 

[saguaro]

I would say there is significant pressure not to be the star witness for the defense. jmo

This is really scary to me.

 

[katydid23]

well if she now says she only saw one person running then it could have been 13 year old whose dog run away.

exactly.

 

[m00c0w]

Well if she now says she only saw one person running then it could have been 13 year old whose dog run away.

Or Martin running ahead to hide in a position by which he could assault Zimmerman. JMO IMO MOO

 

[LambChop]

Well if she now says she only saw one person running then it could have been 13 year old whose dog run away.

This is true, it could have been. jmo