WM3 are guilty- Evidence.

[Parksestx]

You're familiar with the Callahan's site, yes?

Never heard of Larry Ceaser mentioned before. About to go and check it out, thanks!

 

[Userid]

I'm convinced Mr. Bojangles was Larry Ceaser.

The WMPD confirmed he was not Bojangles, though.

"6/24/93 Talked with a Larry Ceasar who has been known in the past to of worn a brace on his right arm. From an injury (gunshot wound) to shoulder. Larry Ceaser fits the General Description of that Given by the bojagles manager of a B/M that came into Bojagles on 05/05/93. With the exception that Larry Ceaser has a full beard & is known to this investigator as always wearing a beard.

Larry Ceaser was asked about wearing an arm brace during the month of May. Larry Ceaser who has a crippled right arm stated he hadn't worn a arm brace since back around Thanksgiven, this was verified in reference to arm brace by Otis Ceaser, & Robert Ceaser, brother of Larry Ceasers. the radio log on May 5, 1993, reflected that Paul Shrader unit #271 at 2:41 P.M. checked Larry Ceaser, radio log reflected #271 Sharder was in the South East Part of West Memphis, Larry Ceaser stated he remembed the white police checking him last month & they checked him in front of the police substation in the Project. Larry Ceasers denies every being at Bojangles on MO. Street."


Larry Ceaser report

 

[Ms.Jules]

Callahan still the best place for WM3 case docs yes. A fantastic podcast about the case in very explicit detail is True Crime Garage. Three parts - each of which are lengthy but cover the case end to end in a surprisingly unbiased fashion. The hosts even admit they realize there are many supports and 'nons' out there but their goal is to simply present the case on both sides. Regardless of my personal opinions about a case, I love listening to and reading factual, unbiased presentations that give both sides. No, Paradise Lost is not one of those nor are the several "non" sites out there .

For the record, I believe it is likely that the WM3 committed these murders and they happened close to how Jessie confessed. That said, from a legal perspective there were hordes of errors and rushes to judgement made and had normal legal procedure been followed, I am unconvinced that a completely unbiased jury would've found them guilty. I also feel people blur the line between not guilty and innocent as they are two very different things. No, I'm not sharing my reasons why and no I'm not getting into a long-winded argument from either side about why I feel the way I do. IMO and none of you are swaying it either way.

Seriously though, check out TCG - great, thorough breakdown of the case.

Excellent post. I agree with a majority of everything you said sir.

 

[Troyce]

I will put myself out there & say firstly that I have ‘sensitivities’. I keep getting brought back to the school janitor. I’m foggy on the connection, whether he had something to do with it, knows information or was in on it.
Anyone else have any information on him?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I've been absent for a while. Who is this school janitor? Can anyone provide me a link? Is there something on Callly's that I've missed? TIA

ETA: Although I'm convinced of the innocence of DE, JB and JM, I am open-minded and would like to know about this person.

 

[dogmatica]

I will put myself out there & say firstly that I have ‘sensitivities’. I keep getting brought back to the school janitor. I’m foggy on the connection, whether he had something to do with it, knows information or was in on it.
Anyone else have any information on him?

Sensitivities? But you're foggy on the connection? Let me help you: the janitor had nothing to do with the murders. This case was solved decades ago. Leave the janitor alone.

 

[dogmatica]

I've been absent for a while. Who is this school janitor? Can anyone provide me a link? Is there something on Callly's that I've missed? TIA

ETA: Although I'm convinced of the innocence of DE, JB and JM, I am open-minded and would like to know about this person.

Open-minded? Since when?

 

[TedMac]

"Bob Ruff is hopeful that one of the biggest mysteries to rock Arkansas will finally be solved.

The former fire chief, arson investigator and host of the “Truth and Justice” podcast is launching a docu-series titled “The Forgotten West Memphis Three” on Oxygen, which reexamines the 1993 murders of three 8-year-old boys: Stevie Branch, Michael Moore and Christopher Byers..."

‘Forgotten West Memphis Three’ doc aims to give victims of notorious crime 'their voices back,’ host says

 

[Userid]

"Bob Ruff is hopeful that one of the biggest mysteries to rock Arkansas will finally be solved.

The former fire chief, arson investigator and host of the “Truth and Justice” podcast is launching a docu-series titled “The Forgotten West Memphis Three” on Oxygen, which reexamines the 1993 murders of three 8-year-old boys: Stevie Branch, Michael Moore and Christopher Byers..."

‘Forgotten West Memphis Three’ doc aims to give victims of notorious crime 'their voices back,’ host says

I watched the first episode last night -- got to say, it was unimpressive to say the least. Absolutely nothing new was extrapolated from Bob, and it's obvious that in episode 2, he'll probably just try to pin it on TH.

The George interview: good on Bob for trying, but it was ultimately a fail, as George was lying from the jump as being the 4th boy with the victims that day. Not Bob's fault, but nevertheless. Of course, maybe if he got ideas from people other than Bob Ruff supporters, he would have had a better lead.

BP interview: nothing new. That's the problem with Bob -- he knows the right people to interview, but he doesn't know the right questions to ask, because he really hasn't been studying this case for that long (particularly when the show was filmed).

CS interview: Carlos states he saw the boys with sleeping bags and they told him they were going camping. Okay, but why didn't he tell this to police at the time of the crime? And no, it wasn't a matter of the police failing to interview him, like Ruff tries to imply at every turn -- go on Cally's, and you see that Carlos talked to police on multiple occasions and provided information. Suddenly a TV series shows up at his door, and now he says he saw the boys with sleeping bags? In other words, I don't know whether to believe CS. He may simply be mis-remembering. It's either that, or Seals is simply a ploy the show creators are running with to make it appear as if the series has illuminated some "fact that was never known before," because after all, they wouldn't want people to think this series has absolutely nothing new to offer, would they?

And where is BL? If Bob wants to interview someone, he should interview him. Hopefully he will in the 2nd episode.

But anyways, this series looks to be a bust, as least after the first episode. Absolutely nothing new was extrapolated -- and much of the footage used was simply from the PL docs. All of the movies before this series contained all the info that Bob did in this first episode and then some, so my advice: just watch the docs, they are light-years better than Bob's (and/or Oxygen's) special.

The one thing I am looking forward to is the DNA testing of the laces, but I'm not expecting a solid conclusion from that. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Troyce]

I will put myself out there & say firstly that I have ‘sensitivities’. I keep getting brought back to the school janitor. I’m foggy on the connection, whether he had something to do with it, knows information or was in on it.
Anyone else have any information on him?

Name: George Occupation: Janitor

 

[MissUnderstood]

I recall reading a lot about this case years ago. I think I still sit on the fence
Was there any physical evidence linking the WM3? I seem to recall there was not, which is why I fence sit. MOO

 

[TristanP]

I watched the first episode last night -- got to say, it was unimpressive to say the least. Absolutely nothing new was extrapolated from Bob, and it's obvious that in episode 2, he'll probably just try to pin it on TH.

The George interview: good on Bob for trying, but it was ultimately a fail, as George was lying from the jump as being the 4th boy with the victims that day. Not Bob's fault, but nevertheless. Of course, maybe if he got ideas from people other than Bob Ruff supporters, he would have had a better lead.

BP interview: nothing new. That's the problem with Bob -- he knows the right people to interview, but he doesn't know the right questions to ask, because he really hasn't been studying this case for that long (particularly when the show was filmed).

CS interview: Carlos states he saw the boys with sleeping bags and they told him they were going camping. Okay, but why didn't he tell this to police at the time of the crime? And no, it wasn't a matter of the police failing to interview him, like Ruff tries to imply at every turn -- go on Cally's, and you see that Carlos talked to police on multiple occasions and provided information. Suddenly a TV series shows up at his door, and now he says he saw the boys with sleeping bags? In other words, I don't know whether to believe CS. He may simply be mis-remembering. It's either that, or Seals is simply a ploy the show creators are running with to make it appear as if the series has illuminated some "fact that was never known before," because after all, they wouldn't want people to think this series has absolutely nothing new to offer, would they?

And where is BL? If Bob wants to interview someone, he should interview him. Hopefully he will in the 2nd episode.

But anyways, this series looks to be a bust, as least after the first episode. Absolutely nothing new was extrapolated -- and much of the footage used was simply from the PL docs. All of the movies before this series contained all the info that Bob did in this first episode and then some, so my advice: just watch the docs, they are light-years better than Bob's (and/or Oxygen's) special.

The one thing I am looking forward to is the DNA testing of the laces, but I'm not expecting a solid conclusion from that. Hope I'm wrong.

I’m not going to engage in useless argument, but your review of the Oxygen special is not an accurate accounting and I hope that anyone who happens to read your opinion will also read my post and decide to watch it so they can form their own opinion.

 

[Userid]

I’m not going to engage in useless argument, but your review of the Oxygen special is not an accurate accounting and I hope that anyone who happens to read your opinion will also read my post and decide to watch it so they can form their own opinion.

It was very accurate actually. This series is completely pointless, and if one wants to learn about the case, one should simply watch all the PL docs (1,2,3) -- which do a much better job. Much of the footage used in this Oxygen series is directly taken from those docs! If you want to provide what exactly was new from this series that hasn't already been introduced, I'm all ears...

Also, I called it: he just tries to pin on TH in the second episode. Huge surprise (sarcasm). This was a complete waste of time and again, all the docs that came before this Oxygen series do a better job than this one -- don't waste your time.

Episode 2 review: Bob thinks TH did it, and he tries to get a hold of Ellington in order to re-test the evidence, but he's never able to get a call back. That pretty much sums it up. Oh, and he interviews DJ and dismisses him as a suspect. The end.

 

[Userid]

I recall reading a lot about this case years ago. I think I still sit on the fence
Was there any physical evidence linking the WM3? I seem to recall there was not, which is why I fence sit. MOO

No, but then again, there was no physical evidence linking anyone to the crime -- including the hairs. The hair found in the binding has a 1 in 900 (approximately, think the exact number is 923) chance of being TH's -- far from definitive -- so contrary to popular supporter opinion, that doesn't directly link TH; it simply means, he's a part of those 900 individuals. Same with the hair on the tree stump with regard to DJ -- there is a 1 in 400 (approx.) chance that hair belongs to DJ, which again, doesn't at all definitely link him to the crime.

The plain fact of the matter is, there is no physical evidence that links anyone to this crime, including the WM3 and TH.

 

[pseudo_hum]

As soon as LE got Misskelley to construct a confession, the objectivity of an investigation was over.

 

[Userid]

As soon as LE got Misskelley to construct a confession, the objectivity of an investigation was over.

Perhaps, but they didn't get the confession until (if I remember correctly) over a month into the investigation. Granted, a month isn't long to investigate, just stating. People like Ruff like to spew this idea that the WMPD zeroed in on the WM3 from the get-go and absolutely no one else -- this is a bit disingenuous. If he knew the case, he'd know that the first person the police zeroed in on, was JMB. Simply go look on Cally's and see all the evidence they collected from him alone -- why would they bother to do that, if they were planning on pinning it on the WM3 from the jump? They wouldn't have -- there's no way they would have wasted all those resources.

Also, the police followed many leads. Yes, they investigated the WM3, but they also followed many others. Cally's has it all. TH should have been investigated -- no argument from me there -- but again, the WM3 were not the only suspects the police followed up on.

I'm still wondering why Ruff never interviewed BL while he was in West Memphis.

 

[Poster320]

As soon as LE got Misskelley to construct a confession, the objectivity of an investigation was over.

He confessed over and over. He confessed to his own lawyer after he was already convicted. Twice. No police involved. That doesn't fit with the "constructed confession" narrative at all.

Despite what the movies try to lead everyone to believe, this wasn't some terrified kid who had never been in trouble, he had multiple arrests by this point and his favorite thing to do was get drunk and beat people up. The only one who ever tried to coerce him into anything was Dan Stidham, who tried to stop him from telling the truth.

 

[pseudo_hum]

He confessed over and over. He confessed to his own lawyer after he was already convicted. Twice. No police involved. That doesn't fit with the "constructed confession" narrative at all.

Despite what the movies try to lead everyone to believe, this wasn't some terrified kid who had never been in trouble, he had multiple arrests by this point and his favorite thing to do was get drunk and beat people up. The only one who ever tried to coerce him into anything was Dan Stidham, who tried to stop him from telling the truth.

No movie or documentary to date has influenced my understanding of the murders. I was living in Memphis TN at the time and I tried to gather as much information as possible pertaining to the homicides. My opinion has not changed.

 

[Poster320]

No movie or documentary to date has influenced my understanding of the murders. I was living in Memphis TN at the time and I tried to gather as much information as possible pertaining to the homicides. My opinion has not changed.

Ok. If the fact that Jessie continued to confess after his conviction, despite the pleading of his lawyer, with no police involvement, with nothing whatsoever to gain, doesn't sway one from the false confession narrative, then there's no point in debating it.

 

[Userid]

Ok. If the fact that Jessie continued to confess after his conviction, despite the pleading of his lawyer, with no police involvement, with nothing whatsoever to gain, doesn't sway one from the false confession narrative, then there's no point in debating it.

I concur. The one thing that really boggles my mind when some people cite the false confession as evidence of innocence is that, they completely dismiss the subsequent confessions, even though the bible confession (the last one, if I remember correctly) gets every detail right. Some people dismiss this by saying, "well, JM memorized every single detail that was brought up during his trial." Which doesn't make sense because, if his IQ somehow prohibited him from not falsely confessing to a crime, it would have prohibited him from being able to memorize every single detail and repeat every detail verbatim at a later time -- days and/or weeks later. Wouldn't it? I mean, you can't have it both ways. You can't claim that he was too mentally incompetent to not falsely confess to a crime, but was mentally competent to memorize every detail and repeat it verbatim -- especially considering that the latter would be ten times harder to accomplish than the former (particularly for a supposedly low IQ individual).

JM explains in his own words why his initial confessions were so off: because he was purposefully trying to throw investigators off and mitigate his own involvement in the crime.