Would the Govt response be different in NO.......

[Magnum PI]

Yeah, street crime is what I am talking about. A wealthy neighborhood, with an abused wife behind every door is a bad place, but generally safe to walk thorugh. But where street gangs think they own the place, where a crime can be committed and people aren't surprised, don't want to get involved, etc. - that's where civilization has lost it's grasp, in part, and that's the places where you don't walk after dark.

Those areas are universally poor, but not universally of any one race.

Well said...thank you...mpi

 

[Details]

Ah, good, so it was coherent. It's been a few hours since I got any sleep - about 34 of them. :crazy:

 

[Magnum PI]

Ah, good, so it was coherent. It's been a few hours since I got any sleep - about 34 of them. :crazy:

I know what you mean. Sometimes I get up and read some of my stuff I wrote the night before and I wonder, who is this idiot? Anyway, get some sleep if you can..34 hrs.. that's too long without sleep...mpi

 

[Details]

I know what you mean. Sometimes I get up and read some of my stuff I wrote the night before and I wonder, who is this idiot? Anyway, get some sleep if you can..34 hrs.. that's too long without sleep...mpi

Yeah, in a few hours. I may do another all nighter tomorrow - I've got a deadline coming up, and I want to be done for it - but I also had a family get together today, so I had to manufacture some extra hours. But I'm definitely on the decline now.

 

[Beyond Belief]

:clap: :clap: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Good description of how most of us feel about ourselves. Then theres always the fellow idiot who digs through things written days prior and analyzes it for you, with all their misinterpretations because they didn't read the entire conversation. This just shows us how everything can get confused to the point no one knows what anyone else is talking about.
:blowkiss:

I know what you mean. Sometimes I get up and read some of my stuff I wrote the night before and I wonder, who is this idiot? Anyway, get some sleep if you can..34 hrs.. that's too long without sleep...mpi

 

[less0305]

:clap: :clap: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Good description of how most of us feel about ourselves. Then theres always the fellow idiot who digs through things written days prior and analyzes it for you, with all their misinterpretations because they didn't read the entire conversation. This just shows us how everything can get confused to the point no one knows what anyone else is talking about.
:blowkiss:

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[j2mirish]

Yes and no... I don't personally think it's so much about race as class - most people aren't too worried about being followed by a black guy in a nice suit; most people are worried about being followed by a white guy in gang attire. You get a high-crime area, and anyone would be worried about walking through there. The fact that poverty and violent crime go together, and that often race and income go together make for some racially biased statistics and facts that do mean people will be more worried with a black man than a white man, all things being equal; but what makes a neighborhood unsafe to walk through at night unless you look like you fit there is usually crime, not race

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[concernedperson]

Yes and no... I don't personally think it's so much about race as class - most people aren't too worried about being followed by a black guy in a nice suit; most people are worried about being followed by a white guy in gang attire. You get a high-crime area, and anyone would be worried about walking through there. The fact that poverty and violent crime go together, and that often race and income go together make for some racially biased statistics and facts that do mean people will be more worried with a black man than a white man, all things being equal; but what makes a neighborhood unsafe to walk through at night unless you look like you fit there is usually crime, not race

:clap: :clap: :clap:

And it goes on and on. I can profile until I am blue in the face. There are never so perfect.

 

[Leve]

In response to the black/white issue. Um...no, it wouldn't make a difference if the victims were white and affluent.

Example? St. Bernard Parish:

Representative Nita Hutter
St. Bernard Parish, Louisiana

September 2, 2005, 11:30 AM CST

Please Help Us:

We have received no federal contact or relief
Our supplies are minimum to none
We are totally isolated and cut off from the outside world
We are desperate for medical supplies
We need communication devices
We need Food
We need transportation and fuel for Generators
We have 6000 sheltered and rescued individuals
We do not have enough supplies to care for the survivors, nor are we able to sufficiently search for additional survivors.
We do not have sufficient supplies for our deputies and Parish government employees who are rescuing those who are stranded
Our rescuers are tired and fatigued and may not be able to continue to help survivors
We are still rescuing people, but we cannot begin to estimate the number of survivors who are still on rooftops and in attics.
We have had contact with LA National Guard and fly overs, but no supplies have been delivered
This is a desperate, desperate situation.
If we do not receive assistance immediately, many, many more St. Bernard, Louisiana, and U.S. citizens will die.
The threat of looting is imminent

Please send help and supplies immediately.

http://www.st-bernard.la.us/emprep/katrina/releases.htm

Here's there main website with pictures of the area:

http://www.st-bernard.la.us/

I realize that Jesse Jackson and others would love to use this national tragedy to promote their own agendas, but the sad fact is that people of all races, sexes, sexual orientation and nationalities suffered and died. To me thats a big enough horror without having to look for worse (and IMO fabricated) issues.

 

[Nova]

Nobody is arguing that the hurricane distinguished between persons on the basis of color. Certainly, many well-to-do people have also lost their homes and possessions.

But prominent members of the Bush administration were still on vacation late in the week. FEMA officials at the highest level were unaware of what the rest of us knew from watching TV.

It's easy to say "race isn't an issue," but somehow I think if thousands of people were stranded in Georgetown, Dr. Rice would have postponed her trip to Ferragamo. (Yes, I realize Dr. Rice is of the same race as most of the NO refugees; but the lines of race and class are often blurred in this country.)

 

[Details]

I thought the point of Leve's post is that a white and affluent area was having the same or worse problems as NO in getting help - even being ignored in favor of NO. If that's so - seems to dismiss the race and class argument to a fair degree (not entirely).

 

[Nova]

I thought the point of Leve's post is that a white and affluent area was having the same or worse problems as NO in getting help - even being ignored in favor of NO. If that's so - seems to dismiss the race and class argument to a fair degree (not entirely).

I understand the argument, but I don't agree. For one thing, I don't believe Bush & Co. sit down and say, "Oh, it's just the Negros, let's don't bother with that." I think it's more a case that the lower classes are simply outside the range of Bush's empathy. I realize there is also suffereing among the well-to-do, but the dominating images so far concern the plight of the poor.

Just not GW's "people."

On a thread in the PP there is a quote from the President's mother, Barbara, that seem to imply that because the refugees come from disadvanged backgrounds, they are actually better off in shelters than in their own homes.

I'm sure it wasn't said to be unkind, but the implied point of view should be very disturbing to us. And we should at least suspect her son has inherited a similar understanding.

 

[goody34]

It saddens me to think about the loss of life in NO, and the beginning of the blame game.
It's the presidents fault, it's the governers fault, ect, ect.
How about this, It's society's fault.
We live in a society where people go years without ever getting to know, let alone talk to, their neighbors.
We live in a society that values possessions more than human life.
If, everyone who left before the hurricane offered a ride to someone who did'nt have one, or checked to make sure their neighbor had a way out if they need one, or left a suitcase full of clothes or other possessions behind and filled the seat with another human being, went to see if the elderly man or woman down the street needed help getting out, maybe, just maybe, instead of the 10's of thousands of people the number would have been far smaller and easier to deal with.
There will always be people who won't go, can't go, but, I wonder how many wanted to go, just did'nt have the ability without a little help from a neighbor or co-worker, or friend.:banghead:
How many lives could have been saved if people realized that there is nothing more valuable than life itself.
I don't know, maybe it's just wishful thinking, but if a teenager could steal a bus and give dozens of strangers a ride to the astrodome, how many could have been given a ride before the storm?

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

It saddens me to think about the loss of life in NO, and the beginning of the blame game.
It's the presidents fault, it's the governers fault, ect, ect.
How about this, It's society's fault.
We live in a society where people go years without ever getting to know, let alone talk to, their neighbors.
We live in a society that values possessions more than human life.
If, everyone who left before the hurricane offered a ride to someone who did'nt have one, or checked to make sure their neighbor had a way out if they need one, or left a suitcase full of clothes or other possessions behind and filled the seat with another human being, went to see if the elderly man or woman down the street needed help getting out, maybe, just maybe, instead of the 10's of thousands of people the number would have been far smaller and easier to deal with.
There will always be people who won't go, can't go, but, I wonder how many wanted to go, just did'nt have the ability without a little help from a neighbor or co-worker, or friend.:banghead:
How many lives could have been saved if people realized that there is nothing more valuable than life itself.
I don't know, maybe it's just wishful thinking, but if a teenager could steal a bus and give dozens of strangers a ride to the astrodome, how many could have been given a ride before the storm?

Goody, I think you've got some very good point, and they're thought-provoking. :clap:

 

[less0305]

It saddens me to think about the loss of life in NO, and the beginning of the blame game.
It's the presidents fault, it's the governers fault, ect, ect.
How about this, It's society's fault.
We live in a society where people go years without ever getting to know, let alone talk to, their neighbors.
We live in a society that values possessions more than human life.
If, everyone who left before the hurricane offered a ride to someone who did'nt have one, or checked to make sure their neighbor had a way out if they need one, or left a suitcase full of clothes or other possessions behind and filled the seat with another human being, went to see if the elderly man or woman down the street needed help getting out, maybe, just maybe, instead of the 10's of thousands of people the number would have been far smaller and easier to deal with.
There will always be people who won't go, can't go, but, I wonder how many wanted to go, just did'nt have the ability without a little help from a neighbor or co-worker, or friend.:banghead:
How many lives could have been saved if people realized that there is nothing more valuable than life itself.
I don't know, maybe it's just wishful thinking, but if a teenager could steal a bus and give dozens of strangers a ride to the astrodome, how many could have been given a ride before the storm?

Oh, Goody, that's one of the best posts I've read! You are so right. It's easy for us all to sit and criticize - but what would our actions be if a similar catastrophe happened in our own neighborhood tomorrow. That is a very thought provoking post. Thank you for sharing it!!!!

 

[j2mirish]

Just not GW's "people."

On a thread in the PP there is a quote from the President's mother, Barbara, that seem to imply that because the refugees come from disadvanged backgrounds, they are actually better off in shelters than in their own homes.

I'm sure it wasn't said to be unkind, but the implied point of view should be very disturbing to us. And we should at least suspect her son has inherited a similar understanding


Nova-- her statement was shocking to me also-- I believe she also made some comment about " the silver lining" in this nightmare --:doh:
j2m

 

[sleuthin4fun]

Lets not forget that people knew that this strom was coming. I am not saying that the response was adequate but, there were many people who could have left and chose not to. Why did people think that they were calling for a mandatory evacuation. I also think the Mayor needs to stand up and take personal responsibility as well. This was his city. He did not bring in water, food or transportation in advance and, he let all the inmates out of prison. He was also told years ago that the levy would not hold.

 

[marrigotti]

Lets not forget that people knew that this strom was coming. I am not saying that the response was adequate but, there were many people who could have left and chose not to. Why did people think that they were calling for a mandatory evacuation. I also think the Mayor needs to stand up and take personal responsibility as well. This was his city. He did not bring in water, food or transportation in advance and, he let all the inmates out of prison. He was also told years ago that the levy would not hold.

Well stated. He needs to stop casting blame and account for his own gross negligence. Does he think if he rants enough about the federal government that he and the governor will come through this untarnished?

 

[sleuthin4fun]

I don't know what he thinks but, I believe that he should have taken immediate action when he saw the strom coming. Get people out of there. Bring buses in for those who could not go on their own. ect...... You will always have those who will refuse to leave but, he should have provided the opportunity for eveyone who wanted to get the heck out of there.
This whole tragedy had nothing to do with race. It just happened to hit the southern gulf coast. Other cities dealt with it fairly well. Why not N.O.
Please no one think that I do not feel for these people. I can't begin to imagine what they are going through. People need to put blame where it truely belongs.

 

[concernedperson]

I have just had an hour long conversation with a friend who is a civil engineer with a very large engineering firm in Atlanta.They do massive projects all over the US as well as environmental cleanup. He says that a lot of his people are on call for FEMA but the directive has not been given. They can't believe it as they are always called for other hurricanes almost immediately and move in immediately.

He had a lot to say but some of it was political so I won't go into that. One of the things he did say is that those levees can be rebuilt to withstand a Cat 5 and agreed with me about the Corps of Engineers hands being tied for many years.

He also speculates that developers will be buying up the land almost as soon as the insurance checks are handed out.The answer for New Orleans is the levees being built correctly. He also thinks that the large corporations will be receiving most of the money not the average citizen. And, they won't be spending it there...

I had another question about building up land along the lakefront. I was wondering if the homes that will be bulldozed could make a base for reclaimation.No, it can't as the debris will rot. The only answer is new fill dirt and not sludge from dredging Lake Ponchartrain.So, if some politician shows up with the sludge answer don't believe them.