Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California, #5

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  • #101
The SDSO has a huge stake in this case not going to court because of the sloppy so-called investigation they did. If I worked there I'd get the Sherriff' Dept's PR person to post here ( and other forums) to try to
convince people this was suicide. The problem is that people have brains. Just continuing to state that this is suicide doesn't negate that fact that the public doesn't buy it because they can think. Any thinking person can look at the circumstances and see that nobody would ever commit suicide in such a manner. Continuing to insist on suicide by repeating it over and over is whistling in the dark at its finest.
 
  • #102
The SDSO has a huge stake in this case not going to court because of the sloppy so-called investigation they did. If I worked there I'd get the Sherriff' Dept's PR person to post here ( and other forums) to try to
convince people this was suicide. The problem is that people have brains. Just continuing to state that this is suicide doesn't negate that fact that the public doesn't buy it because they can think. Any thinking person can look at the circumstances and see that nobody would ever commit suicide in such a manner. Continuing to insist on suicide by repeating it over and over is whistling in the dark at its finest.

Continuing to insist on murder by repeating it over and over - and having no evidence to back it up - is ok?
 
  • #103
2011 was a record year for suicide in San Diego county. Rebecca was just one of 392 suicides. Hers was the only one that recieved press. Usually, suicides are not reported.

Because KFMB-TV Ch08 in SD sent helicopters to take pictures of her nude body in a private courtyard, her sucide was much more public than she had planned.

If the Zahaus wanted to sue anyone, it should have been KFMB-TV Ch08. Instead, they cozied up with the them and unscrupulous reporter David Gotfredson, in order to have more articles claiming murder put in the paper - so they could bring a civil suit and make money off of their sister's death.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2012/mar/09/record-number-suicides-2011/

Hanging is also the 2nd most popular method for women committing suicide in San Diego county:

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And suicide is almost twice as likely than murder:

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Suicide is a very sad thing. But it happens frequently - and Rebecca was just one of many in 2011.

Also of note, is that women's suicides seem to be the highest in July:

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http://www.sandiegocounty.gov/hhsa/programs/phs/documents/CHS-Suicide_Report_2011.pdf
 

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  • #104
I hope they do not ruin it. I stayed there for a week about 1 1/2 years ago, loved it. I went for long walks everyday and passed the Spreckels house not knowing it was "that" house. Can't believe how close it was to the street. Thought there would be more fencing up or something to keep people from trespassing.

Do you know if people are 'trespassing'?
 
  • #105
Continuing to insist on murder by repeating it over and over - and having no evidence to back it up - is ok?

Actually, yes. Differing opinions are fine and to be expected. Happens in at least 95% of the cases on this forum. People interpret circumstances, evidence, words, etc... differently and draw their own conclusions.

Per Websleuths Rules and Etiquette, what is not okay is an intolerance of differing opinions. :)
 
  • #106
Actually, yes. Differing opinions are fine and to be expected. Happens in at least 95% of the cases on this forum. People interpret circumstances, evidence, words, etc... differently and draw their own conclusions.

Per Websleuths Rules and Etiquette, what is not okay is an intolerance of differing opinions. :)


Hi beach! With all due respect, I realize there are two opinions here - the Defense and the Plantiffs. And there are many people on both sides.

But since there is a trial involved, evidence will be required on the side of the plantiffs. That is a fact. I personally don't think just asking for actual evidence and links to have posters back up their claims is being intolerant. Isn't it also in the rules that things stated as facts must be backed up?

The jurors will certainly want to see evidence in order to convict innocent people of murder. Those of us on the side of LE and the Defendants are constantly being asked to back up our claims - and we can and do.
 
  • #107
New entry today on the San Diego ROA-- #338.

338 04/01/2016 Answer filed by Shacknai, Adam. Shacknai, Adam (Defendant) Defendant Adam Shacknai's Answer to Second Amended Complaint

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/faces/CaseSearch.xhtml
Case Number: 37-2013-00075418-CU-PO-CTL

8 Pages. Basically, Adam denies everything in the Second Amended Complaint. Here is the link-- will forward to Bessie to post in documents when the link expires.

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/face..._s_Answer_to_Second_Amended_1459809678498.pdf

PRAYER
WHEREFORE, Mr. Shacknai prays for judgment on Plaintiffs’ unverified Second Amended
Complaint as follows:

A. That Plaintiffs take nothing by the SAC;
B. That the SAC be dismissed with prejudice;
C. That judgment be entered against Plaintiffs and in favor of Mr. Shacknai;
D. That Mr. Shacknai recover his costs of suit incurred herein, including reasonable
attorneys’ fees; and
E. For any other and further relief as the Court may deem just and proper.

Next scheduled activity on the case is next week, April 14, 0845, ex-parte appointment.

04/14/2016 08:45 AM C-69 Ex Parte
 
  • #108
IDK Jodi Arias trashed Travis right and left and some how that was allowed. Just saying

WOW

Excellent *analogy*, SweetT!!!

Jodi Arias, a sociopath, narcissist murderer, defendant, trashing her victim, Travis Alexander.

Dina Romano, a sociopath, narcissist murderer, defendant, trashing her victim, Rebecca Zahau. ETA: Also Rebecca's minor sister. UGH.
 
  • #109
IDK Jodi Arias trashed Travis right and left and some how that was allowed. Just saying

Respectfully, I don't think these 2 cases are even remotely comparable. Jodi Arias was being tried for capital murder, a criminal death penalty case. Because of the gravity of that, there were layers to that trial process that don't exist in a civil trial-- mitigation, for example.

The Zahau civil trial is projected to last about a week, which is pretty typical for most civil cases. I don't think this judge will allow this civil suit trial progress to "wander in the weeds" with a lot of irrelevant or tangential testimony, or attempts to de-rail the trial into a wrongful death trial over Max's death, for example. I think the judge will insist that the trial process stick pretty closely to the usual trial protocols. The maximum penalty here is $$, not the death penalty.

I don't think the judge will tolerate much of any gratuitous "bashing" of the defendants, the plaintiffs, or witnesses by any of the participants during trial.

But the caveat to that, is that discussing the ALLEGATIONS and the RELEVANT EVIDENCE in court contained within the civil complaint against the defendants, is not "bashing", even if the allegations and evidence are not flattering with regard to the defendants. And it's not "tit for tat", where the defendants get to make counter accusations. It's a civil trial, not a "debate". The plaintiffs have to make their case, and the defendants have to DEFEND themselves against the allegations.

If, for example, the plaintiffs are laying out an argument that Rebecca was killed by the defendants as a premeditated act of revenge (which is what Attorney Greer has said publicly), then the plaintiffs are allowed to present evidence and testimony that supports that. That includes evidence of how Dina, Nina, and/ or Adam behaved toward Rebecca, how they treated her, what they said about her, etc. That's not "bashing"-- it's part of the case.

The ongoing catch 22 for Dina is, IMO, if she goes on the attack in court, and tries to get in her ideas about Rebecca being the one that she thinks killed Max, and her investigation with Bove and Melinek, and her "stalking" of Rebecca, how mean Rebecca prepared healthy meals for Max when he wanted junk food, etc., well than she's shooting herself in the foot. Because any of that used by Dina as a "defense", is going to seriously backfire, and only make her look more guilty and vengeful. She can try it, and probably will. But I don't think it's a good plan, with a jury sitting there. To the jury, she'll just look even more like a bitter, vindictive ex-wife, who hated the new partner of their ex. That's not a good "look" for a defendant accused of killing the new partner of their ex, IMO.

IMO, Dina's attorneys really have their work cut out for them, to try to prevent Dina from coming across to the jury as a bitter, vindictive ex-wife.

Anyway, change of subject.

Here's a question for anyone who might know-- in some jurisdictions in the U.S., civil juries are composed of only 6 jurors, not 12. I can't find anything about the use of 6 vs 12 for San Diego county. Does anyone know if SD typically uses 12 jurors for a civil trial, as well as a criminal trial? Are there provisions in state procedures for using 6 jurors? Is it up to the judge if they use 6? Do the parties to the suit have any input?

A lot of places use 6 jurors for civil trials due to the volume of cases, cost, number of available jurors, etc. Interested to know what San Diego does. I might post this in the legal questions thread, too.
 
  • #110
...and Adam putting her fingerprints on everything and DNA (!), while somehow and magically not leaving any of his DNA anywhere.

Snipped for focus

You are right. He must have used some magic, because it is him who declared that he cut the rope an loosed her wrists and yet his DNA was nowhere to be found.

:shame:
 
  • #111
^ Why would there be DNA if he did not touch the rope, only the knife did? If he held Rebecca in one arm, and reached up to cut the rope with the knife in the other hand, there would be no DNA.

Besides, Adam admits that he cut the rope when he valiently tried to save Rebecca Zahau's life, so there was no need to test the rope where he cut it. But there was plenty of Zahau's DNA inside the knots. Believe me, there is NO magic he could have used to do that!
 
  • #112
^ Why would there be DNA if he did not touch the rope, only the knife did? If he held Rebecca in one arm, and reached up to cut the rope with the knife in the other hand, there would be no DNA.

Besides, Adam admits that he cut the rope when he valiently tried to save Rebecca Zahau's life, so there was no need to test the rope where he cut it. But there was plenty of Zahau's DNA inside the knots. Believe me, there is NO magic he could have used to do that!

Hmmm, I seem to recall AS stated he 'loosened' the bindings around Rebecca's wrists. Was he wearing gloves? Oi-yi-yi
 
  • #113
Great to see Adam denying the allegations so forcefully:

Pursuant to Section 431.30(d) of the California Code of Civil Procedure, Mr. Shacknai

denies, generally and specifically, each and every allegation of the unverified SAC, each and every

paragraph of the unverified SAC, and each and every cause of action in the unverified SAC. Mr.

Shacknai further denies that Plaintiffs are entitled to any relief against him and denies that Plaintiffs

have been damaged in the nature alleged. Further answering the unverified SAC, Mr. Shacknai

denies that Plaintiffs sustained any injury, damage, or loss by reason of any conduct, action, error or

omission on the part of Mr. Shacknai.

I really don't think the Judge will let in any testimony about how Adam, Dina, or Nina spoke to Rebecca, or how she spoke to them. That does not place them there the night of the suicide, in her room, and on the balcony, and therefore, will not be relevant. You can speak to someone very harshly, that does not mean you murdered them.

I think Mary will need to come up with more than "Dina didn't like Rebecca", the scream, and the, IMO, biased witness, in order to win the big $ she so covets. That will never convince a Jury.

Speaking of the witness, Mr. Haager, Adam is using as his Thirteenth Affirmative Defense the "Unclean Hands" doctrine. From Adam's answer to the 2nd SAC:

13. By reasons of Plaintiffs' own conduct, acts, and/or omissions, Plaintiffs are barred

from any recovery under the SAC by the doctrine of unclean hands.

I wonder if that has to do with Mr. Haager? Whatever it is, it is fabulous to see the Lawyer and Adam calling them out on their behavior.

BBM

The clean hands doctrine is a rule of law that someone bringing a lawsuit or motion and asking the court for equitable relief must be innocent of wrongdoing or unfair conduct relating to the subject matter of his/her claim. It is an affirmative defense that the defendant may claim the plaintiff has "unclean hands".

However, this defense may not be used to put in issue conduct of the plaintiff unrelated to plaintiff's claim. Therefore, plaintiff's unrelated corrupt actions and general immoral character would be irrelevant. The defendant must show that plaintiff misled the defendant or has done something wrong regarding the matter under consideration. The wrongful conduct may be of a legal or moral nature, as long as it relates to the matter in issue.

I certainly believe the Zahaus and their lawyer have acted unscrupulously in this lawsuit - from knowing that Dina, Nina, and Adam are innocent of their charges, to using witnesses that are connected to posters for their side. It is good to see that Adam's lawyer thinks so, too.

I also think the Jury will see how angry and unreasonable Mary Zahau is, and I believe her hate of Dina will come across on the witness stand. I think that when the Jury hears that Mary came out just 9 days after Rebecca's death to say she "would NEVER believe it was suicide", and that Rebecca was unstable and/or implusive enough to shoplift $1000 worth of jewelery at the age of 30 - just 1 1/2 years before her death - they will realize what they are dealing with. A family willing to accuse three innocent people of murder to make a big load of money.

Good to see that Adam is requesting the Zahaus pay:

(BBM) WHEREFORE, Mr. Shacknai prays for judgment on Plaintiffs' unverified Second Amended

Complaint as follows:

A. That Plaintiffs take nothing by the SAC;

B. That the SAC be dismissed with prejudice;

C. That judgment be entered against Plaintiffs and in favor of Mr. Shacknai;

D. That Mr. Shacknai recover his costs of suit incurred herein, including reasonable

attorneys' fees; and

E. For any other and further relief as the Court may deem just and proper.
 
  • #114
Hmmm, I seem to recall AS stated he 'loosened' the bindings around Rebecca's wrists. Was he wearing gloves? Oi-yi-yi

No, Adam did not say he "loosened them". He said, in his lie detector test and available on YouTube - the one he took voluntarily without a lawyer present - that he remembered he had to "move something out of the way" when taking her pulse. While he was trying to save her. That "something" could have been rope, or it could have been one of her bracelets.

LE only tested the portions of rope that someone would have to touched when they tied the knots. Obviously, if Adam did indeed touch the rope, Adam did not touch the rope anywhere near the knots.

Thanks screecher, for giving me yet another piece of proof that it was only Rebecca that tied the knots! I had not thought of that before!
 
  • #115
Thanks for the links K_Z. IANAL, but it looks like Adam's attorneys are throwing everything but the kitchen sink to see what sticks.

It doesn't appear he has any evidence or testimony with which to support his claims.
 
  • #116
^ That is Adam's Answer to the Second Amended Complaint. Evidence or testimony would not be included in the document. Just as evidence and testimony was not included in the Second Amended Complaint the Zahaus filed.
 
  • #117
IMO, if at trial Dina goes down the path of RZ not being a "suitable" caretaker for Max, she's doomed. For starters, the reasons behind her accusations of RZ's "unsuitability" are ludicrous. Even worse is that she apparently spent a considerable amount of time trying to insure Max wasn't comfortable around RZ, and vice versa. That screams jealousy and vindictiveness. It does not scream "loving mother" by any thinking person's definition.

Loving mothers (and dads) spend considerable time insuring their child feels comfortable with the ex-spouse's new significant other. It's about the child's feelings, safety, and security - not about mom's feelings of jealousy and rage.
 
  • #118
LE only tested the portions of rope that someone would have to touched when they tied the knots.

If true, just one more example of the stellar investigation conducted by SDSO. :rolleyes:
 
  • #119
^ No, it actually just shows they knew what they were doing. Testing the inside of the knots was the surest way to see who tied Rebecca up - and they found it was Rebecca and only Rebecca.
 
  • #120
The SDSO has a huge stake in this case not going to court because of the sloppy so-called investigation they did. If I worked there I'd get the Sherriff' Dept's PR person to post here ( and other forums) to try to
convince people this was suicide.
The problem is that people have brains. Just continuing to state that this is suicide doesn't negate that fact that the public doesn't buy it because they can think. Any thinking person can look at the circumstances and see that nobody would ever commit suicide in such a manner. Continuing to insist on suicide by repeating it over and over is whistling in the dark at its finest.

BBM for focus.

I agree, Gilgamesh. For a very long time, I have thought that there IS someone with connections to the SDSO who has been moving about on various forums and media comment sites posting aggressively on this case, with the goal of swaying/ bullying public perception toward the suicide finding, and by doing so, intentionally sheltering/ assisting at least one of the named defendants. Maybe not with the "blessing" of SDSO, but someone who seeks attention because of what they "know". A busybody, a meddler. Perhaps it is someone who worked in the department at the time of Rebecca's death, but was not a sworn officer, and who may have left or retired shortly after Rebecca's death. During the investigation, but before the press conference by Sheriff Gore. Because that is the timing that seems right to me, as I look back on how all this unfolded. The internet hate campaign against Rebecca was in full swing by November 14, 2011, when it really ramped up (and then it was even more obvious, IMO.) Sheriff Gore gave his "suicide" press conference Labor Day 2011.

There is only a very, very few people driving the "hate Rebecca" campaign, IMO. They just re-invent a new persona as needed, and blunder on littering "hate Rebecca" posts at news media sites, etc. The hate posts, or sections of them, are copied and pasted over and over, so it's pretty obvious what's going on.

I think the Zahaus and their attorney know this, as well. I suspect they still have a few more subpoenas to pass out. Greer is going to connect all the dots for the jury, and they will see this whole process for what it is.

Be that as it may, we all have to remember that whatever WE know, the parties to the lawsuit know SOOO much more. We do not have all the evidence. They have the entire investigation, plus all the discovery. And it's still building for another year until trial.
 
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