Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

[Mica]

Wasn't it exactly the same soft drink, Diet Dr. Pepper, that was both in the upstairs bedroom and on the defense table in front of AS? Or am I misremembering?

That’s what I remember.

 

[Verboten]

Does anybody here have the seized evidence list from SDSO search warrant? I've seen it before, but can't find a link at this time.

 

[Betty P]

BBM: I don't understand this question.

As to the rest of your questions, clearly the defense is trying to disparage Rebecca's character and state of mind by dredging up old boyfriends. It's what they're being paid to do. If you want to play along with them, that's up to you. I don't find her bad choices in men, other than her final bad choice, relevant in any way to what happened to her.

Yes, it was disappointing to hear they resurrected the same disparaging allegations about RZ, the same ones we've seen some folks post here over and over again. She was crazy, she was unstable, etc...

It's the same old "Cell Block Tango" defense.

"She had it coming
You should have been there
She only had herself to blame
If you'd have been there
If you'd have heard it
I bet you would have done the same.."

 

[minorone]

I can’t have an opinion until I can understand what the testimony was. I do recommend that everyone listen to that Podcast. Tricia, thank you so much! WS, by providing that podcast, is giving all its readers a much broader view of how the case is progressing. I think the more we know about each testimony, the better we will understand the jury’s verdict.

But a kidnapping! Did she press charges? Is the idea that the kidnapper might have had a vendetta? With the doors being open, anyone could walk in.

Those of you that are insiders must know the details. Kidnapping of a loved 8ne is not something that goes unmentioned. That’s a huge thing to have endured. For Rebecca and the Zahau family.

It is in the first interview with Caitlin Rother and it sounds like it was her ex-husband. Charges were not pressed.

Sounds like the first marriage was a disaster.

 

[stmarysmead]

Yes, it was disappointing to hear they resurrected the same disparaging allegations about RZ, the same ones we've seen some folks post here over and over again. She was crazy, she was unstable, etc...

It's the same old "Cell Block Tango" defense.

"She had it coming
You should have been there
She only had herself to blame
I've you'd have been there
If you'd have heard it
I bet you would have done the same.."

It’s not disparaging to have testimony about a crime committed against RZ. I don’t understand why there seems to be a hesitancy to discuss this kidnapping.

I know everyone of you wa to justice for RZ and her family. But convicting the wrong man is not justice. If this former boyfriend kidnapped her, was there violence?

I know so many have posted about how incomplete the investigation was. Was this EX investigated? Where was he that night? Did RZ fear him? Was he the one on the stand? If the doors were open and he was unhinged enough to kidnap her in the past, shouldn’t he be a prime suspect?

Is that why the defense brought this up? Kidnapping is not exactly purse snatching. Where was RZ living...was she living with this man?

 

[Betty P]

Does anybody here have the seized evidence list from SDSO search warrant? I've seen it before, but can't find a link at this time.

Here it is:

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41227.pdf

 

[Betty P]

It’s not disparaging to have testimony about a crime committed against RZ. I don’t understand why there seems to be a hesitancy to discuss this kidnapping.

I know everyone of you wa to justice for RZ and her family. But convicting the wrong man is not justice. If this former boyfriend kidnapped her, was there violence?

I know so many have posted about how incomplete the investigation was. Was this EX investigated? Where was he that night? Did RZ fear him? Was he the one on the stand? If the doors were open and he was unhinged enough to kidnap her in the past, shouldn’t he be a prime suspect?

Is that why the defense brought this up? Kidnapping is not exactly purse snatching. Where was RZ living...was she living with this man?

I didn't hear that in the podcast. Do you have a quote from it? TIA JMO, it sounds like another red herring. Defense knows that the jury believes RZ was murdered so they have to find some mystery person to throw into the mix. They tried very hard, for a long time, to accuse her ex husband, but he was hundreds of miles away when she was killed. Same old stuff.

And yes, it is disparaging for them to keep bringing up her past shoplifting incident and other slurs that imply she was emotionally unstable.

 

[Imp]

Yes, it was disappointing to hear they resurrected the same disparaging allegations about RZ, the same ones we've seen some folks post here over and over again. She was crazy, she was unstable, etc...

It's the same old "Cell Block Tango" defense.

"She had it coming
You should have been there
She only had herself to blame
I've you'd have been there
If you'd have heard it
I bet you would have done the same.."

I guess we should take heart if that's all they've really got. I can't imagine a jury will look too kindly on a defense team who vilifies the dead victim, especially by trying to imply she was nuts, and especially in light of the fact that her death investigation had all kinds of gaping holes in it, thus the reason we're all here today. The victim was treated horribly during her last hours on this earth and for many hours after her death, and now the defense wants to convince the jury "she had it coming."

Good luck with that, I say.

 

[Seattle1]

I didn't hear anything about a kidnapping in the podcast. Can you grab a quote for us? TIA.

I just listened to Trish-Rother podcast of 3/23, and I also did not get that there was ever testimony given in this trial that RZ was kidnapped.

Take note that these podcasts are "conversational" between Trish and Caitlyn, and include heresay which should not be confused with evidence of testimony. Rother also makes reference to her surprise at JS court voice/demeanor after prior assault allegations (but not because these allegations were heard in this court).

 

[stmarysmead]

“She was nuts.”

Yet, it was the Ex who kidnapped her? And that “disparages” her?

Hmmmm....odd conversation. Well, there’s always the Internet and eventually, maybe a book or trial transcripts.

 

[minorone]

Is that why the defense brought this up? Kidnapping is not exactly purse snatching. Where was RZ living...was she living with this man?

The alibi of the NN was checked and he was cleared. There is no way he could have done the murder.

You may want to take the time to listen to all the updates TG has done in regard to this case.

 

[Imp]

I just listened to Trish-Rother podcast of 3/23, and I also did not get that there was ever testimony given in this trial that RZ was kidnapped.

Take note that these podcasts are "conversational" between Trish and Caitlyn, and include heresay which should not be confused with evidence of testimony. Rother also makes reference to her surprise at JS court voice/demeanor after prior assault allegations but not because these allegations were heard in this court.

Thanks. Also important to note Rother is contemplating writing a book on the case, which would require a certain amount of "coloring" of the characters that isn't necessarily indicative of anything going on in the courtroom.

 

[Verboten]

By learning more about Rebecca’s former romantic relationships, what do you think is the impact of the jury in deciding suicide or murder?

If she had some bad relationships, do you think the jury would feel she would be more likely to commit suicide? Would the jury think she was more deserving of being murdered?
<snipped>

Absolutely. What relevance does any story by any ex-boyfriend about what they *say* happened within a relationship, the dynamics of which are unknown, have on whether Rebecca was murdered? Or even whether she committed suicide (which is an absurdity)? As this, along with shoplifting and affairs has been incessantly drummed on by people trying to smear Rebecca AND as it is clearly, as stated by others, being used "by the defense, for the defense," I am not going to give my attention to it here.

Yes, it was disappointing to hear they resurrected the same disparaging allegations about RZ, the same ones we've seen some folks post here over and over again. She was crazy, she was unstable, etc...

It's the same old "Cell Block Tango" defense.

"She had it coming
You should have been there
She only had herself to blame
I've you'd have been there
If you'd have heard it
I bet you would have done the same.."

Exactly. These are all things that have been used for years to try to paint Rebecca as crazy, unstable and not a good person. While, in reality, Jonah, without even meaning to, really shows her to be almost the perfect girlfriend, a wonderful human being. Probably why there&#8217;s been so much animosity toward her. She, most certainly, is no more flawed than him in any of the respects that are being used to smear her (affairs, weird stories from ex-partners, and legal problems (see Medicis suit I&#8217;ve posted previously)).

Speaking of legal problems--why was Adam, the person on trial for murder (or technically, responsibility for RZs death), ARRESTED? Why did he and the defense refuse to state what crime he was charged with? Who &#8220;took care of it&#8221; (his words) for him? Isn&#8217;t this a shocking new revelation that would warrant people&#8217;s curious questioning more so than what an ex-boyfriend says about the victim?

 

[Betty P]

&#8220;She was nuts.&#8221;

Yet, it was the Ex who kidnapped her? And that &#8220;disparages&#8221; her?

Hmmmm....odd conversation. Well, there&#8217;s always the Internet and eventually, maybe a book or trial transcripts.

Her ex husband was cleared. He wasn't even in the same state, so what does this have to do with her murder?

The sly implication is that she was "unstable" for marrying someone who may or may not have even done that. I find no evidence he did. I'm not going to ask you for a link because it's irrelevant to this case.

Rebecca was not an unstable person. She was healthy and normal woman, living a positive, productive life until someone cruelly and heinously snuffed it out. Then tried to blame her for it. Cell Block Tango defense.

 

[Verboten]

Thanks. Also important to note Rother is contemplating writing a book on the case, which would require a certain among of "coloring" of the characters that isn't necessarily indicative of anything going on in the courtroom.

Agree. Thanks so much for pointing this out, Imp. In a book, backstories are fascinating glimpses at personalities (characters), while not necessarily relevant in terms of this particular civil trial. Rother is definitely drawn to the stories and backstories (whether true or made up), as any writer would be. And, imo, some of them, while interesting, are irrelevant for purpose of this case.

 

[justice be served]

I listened to Tricia’s/Rother interview and my response if I were a juror:

- Rebecca’s clothes she was last seen in were not missing. Sounds more like the Zahau family was trying to get them released by SDSO. Okay got it – a detail Plaintiff had wrong perhaps. And SDSO were VERY uncooperative with the family but admitted speaking with JS 9 times. Why is that?
.
- Expert witness paid $10,000 to say one cannot compare a painted message on a door to a hand-written paper example. This expert supposedly “wrote the book” on this science but has the science never been improved upon since the book he wrote? Not convincing.

- Expert witness said knife blood came from Rebecca’s finger injury and not from vaginal insertion. Don’t buy that one at all based on the finger injury description.

- Defense testimony from those who tried to impugn her character. Rebecca, and only Rebecca, can give her true life story. Very prejudicial to not have a dead woman give her own story about ex-relationships, etc. Don’t buy any of it and that goes for the religious aspect as well.

What remains compelling evidence of murder if I were a juror and including the judge’s response to the Motion for Non-Suit:

- How would Rebecca have hog-tied herself? And how would she have gone over the railing by herself? I can’t get past this fact.

- Why was Rebecca’s body rigor not evidencing a hanging with legs straight instead of bent? This is the major fact I believe it was murder not to mention the throat injuries Dr. Wecht testified to.

- Adam said “I got a girl – hung herself in the guest house”. The guest house? The same guest house that was not secured until 3 hours later? The same guest house with unprocessed evidence? Didn’t SDSO listen to Adam’s 911 call and then collect evidence in accordance with his 911 call?

- Eyewitness testimony connects Adam to the scene. Period.

- Adam’s nephew was fatally (it turns out) injured under Rebecca’s watch. Motive.

- Adam’s absence of DNA/fingerprints is the “science doesn’t lie” proof per SDSO of his innocence. Adam also had no DNA/fingerprints on Rebecca or the accoutrements that he used to cut her down and give her supposed CPR. SDSO: You can’t have it both ways.

- Adam loosened Rebecca’s knots to check for pulse. If the knots were that tight then the SDSO re-enactment showing that loose knots were tied in front of her and then moved her arms to her back to insert her arm can’t be true. SDSO: You can’t have it both ways. And when has SDSO ever done a re-enactment of this magnitude?

- Confirmation bias is absolutely proven in the SDSO investigation. I think Greer should make this a specific element to be focused upon.

- From the outset of this terrible day that Rebecca was found, it appears that anyone involved with the investigation thought Rebecca should be shamed and disrespected by not being tented or attended to in a timely manner by the ME. Evidence was degraded which goes back to the confirmation bias of all the officials involved in the investigation. I will never get past this awful fact and it sets up the injustices that were to follow and continue to this day.

And these are just off the top of my head.

 

[Imp]

@justice be served: ^^^Excellent post!

 

[Imp]

&#8220;She was nuts.&#8221;

Yet, it was the Ex who kidnapped her? And that &#8220;disparages&#8221; her?

Hmmmm....odd conversation. Well, there&#8217;s always the Internet and eventually, maybe a book or trial transcripts.

Looks like you're the only one who heard the kidnapping thing in the latest Tricia-Rother interview. You might want to re-listen and bring the actual quoted words back here, or at a minimum give us the time within the 57 minute interview you heard it discussed. Otherwise, it doesn't seem it even happened.

 

[Seattle1]

IMO...
One of the first witnesses for RZ was the handwriting analyst. Defense pushed hard to prevent his testimony at which Judge also wanted to know if possible to analyze a "painted" message compared to other print form but eventually allowed expert to testify. It's believed that the expert that testified on Friday for defense (intentionally) limited his testimony to answer the Judge's question that it was not possible for him to perform CREDIBLE ANALYSIS without another like kind or "painted" sample.

Regarding knife handle and sexual assault, DNA analyst testified RZ oral swab was 600 nanograms, and knife result 35 where expectation for vaginal blood on knife would be higher. In rebuttal, Greer requested the steak knife (still in the custody of SDSO) delivered to court where the residue currently on this knife showed how "super glue" used by SDSO lab could explain test sample degraded. (I was personally grateful for this info per my earlier post).

There will be no court on Thursday and Friday of this week (Easter/Passover).

 

[Verboten]

@justice be served: ^^^Excellent post!

Yes! Justice Be Served, excellent, excellent, excellent! Standing ovation for that post!!!