WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #1

[Shadow205]

On The Trail, I do not understand why you feel as though you have been "spanked". It was merely pointed out that Stacy Horn has made her intentions known since joing WS's. As a fairly new member perhaps you were not aware of that. Your post came accross as though you thought that she was being sneaky or something. I think that what Stacy is doing is great, who knows maybe it will help bring some closeure to the family or maybe even reunite the siblings after all of these years.

 

[shadowangel]

Before we ALL get spanked by the mods, let's take any continuance of this discussion to the Parking Lot. It only detracts from the discussion at hand, and though may be the norm for other forums has no place down here in Cold Cases.

 

[LButler]

on the trail ... you haven't been spanked, but read the thread before you post. I've made the same mistake. All's well, hang around and add your thoughts.

Stacy ... on your worries of adding to the pain of a loss... I, personally, don't think there could be any greater pain than NOT KNOWING. In this case, the family doesn't know if these kids survived the night, are they out there, could Sylvia meet part or all of her missing siblings before it's too late? That is pain. When a murder goes unsolved and you can't get answers as to why a child was killed or an innocent person was taken from you - that's pain.

No, I haven't been faced with such a situation personally, but heck, some of us are so wrapped up in this story that we feel we are involved (I know I do). Sylvia wants answers. And, answers involve dredging up the pain again and again, but hopefully it will be worth it in the end. Even if we don't find the answers, it may give her a sense of peace that she did all she could to find out. It would be such a relief to me that someone stilled cared about 5 kids being abducted on Christmas Eve 1945.

 

[shadowangel]

on the trail ... you haven't been spanked, but read the thread before you post. I've made the same mistake. All's well, hang around and add your thoughts.

Stacy ... on your worries of adding to the pain of a loss... I, personally, don't think there could be any greater pain than NOT KNOWING. In this case, the family doesn't know if these kids survived the night, are they out there, could Sylvia meet part or all of her missing siblings before it's too late? That is pain. When a murder goes unsolved and you can't get answers as to why a child was killed or an innocent person was taken from you - that's pain.

No, I haven't been faced with such a situation personally, but heck, some of us are so wrapped up in this story that we feel we are involved (I know I do). Sylvia wants answers. And, answers involve dredging up the pain again and again, but hopefully it will be worth it in the end. Even if we don't find the answers, it may give her a sense of peace that she did all she could to find out. It would be such a relief to me that someone stilled cared about 5 kids being abducted on Christmas Eve 1945.

:clap: :clap: (Even if you ARE mean to me!) :blowkiss:
I think there is a level of frustration that comes with this particular case...We all scratch our heads and ask the same question...How do five kids disappear? And, above and beyond that...Why did this case lay seemingly dormant (except for the family) for SIXTY years?
I still hope its more than coincidence that we've all come together at this particular time, maybe the children are ready to have the truth revealed...

 

[LButler]

:clap: :clap: (Even if you ARE mean to me!) :blowkiss:

It's for your own good!!:razz:

I do think it's odd that we all seemed to start thinking about this at similar times. I know I was shocked to google the story and see 2 very active threads about it - just recently started.

Oh, I hope it's a sign from a higher power that IT'S TIME!! Unlike alot of cases I look at and say, "That will never be solved," this one just feels different - it feels "solveable."

 

[Stacy Horn]

For the record, I didn't think On the Trail was accusing me of anything. The discussion just brought up how hard it was for me when I was writing my last book, interviewing family members. I'm not even sure how I made the connection, but that's why I posted what I did. I think because once again, I hope I don't say something insensitive to someone in the Sodder family.

 

[mysteriew]

now that i was spanked by the good detectives , for a statement against ms horn, which by the way was more of a :laugh: . so lighten up :snooty: :clap: :clap: :razz: :razz:

LOL, I don't think we were trying to spank you. We see so many cases that seem to be forgotten. The families feel it is hopeless, the LE too busy to keep trying to investigate or all leads have dried up and they have no where else to go. So when someone does try to stir things up with some media attention, a book or public discussion of the case- we don't see it as a bad thing.
And may be are a little oversensitive or overprotective of those who are able to do so. Because every time they speak, some guilty person or witness gets a pinprick reminding them that it isn't totally forgotten. Someone is still looking for them. So we want to encourage them to speak as much as possible right?
As a matter of fact, I have a case in mind that is cold, very interesting, horrific, and still affecting people in my area today. Just in case she is looking for another subject for a book or article.

 

[on the trail]

now that we have all let off some steam let's get back to case . we are heading in the right direction . stacy good luck to you . when you go to vist.

 

[shadowangel]

As a matter of fact, I have a case in mind that is cold, very interesting, horrific, and still affecting people in my area today. Just in case she is looking for another subject for a book or article.

Share!

 

[on the trail]

let's review some of the statements from the other forum , one was stated on the family ties to smithers area, smithers was a small town with the railroadtracks that ran thru it , was stated that the storewindows and inside of store were dirty couldn't see in . as most who ever grew up there know with the alloy plant and coal mining some days the dust was so bad it would block out the sun. do we know what church mr ciprianis funeral was at there are 2 catholic churches one in boomer the other in montgomery was there a church in smithers at the time . another question was rasied how often did the sodders vist with there grandfather and aunts and uncle . who was the fire chief of fayetteville's fire dept when the fire happend ? was there any other things going on in the area that may be tied into this that no one has looked at.

 

[on the trail]

in checking the other forum, wish lab could get on this page , but here you go , did your family live on front or back street, reason i ask when you type in address shows two locations about a block apart.michigan ave is front street, kanawha ave is backstreet as us kids used to call it did they live in a fancy house brick/stone or wood (coal camp house) . as a kid i only know of 2 grocery stores in smithers i think at one time they had a theatre and bowling alley . the one store was up by the old oakland school the other was down the other end of town . the stores had differant names both starting with c but i can't remember the names .

 

[shadowangel]

As I know some others are, I've been checking manifests for ships coming into and leaving the country. I've been trying to check inbound ships for the names CIPriani (proud of me, LButler? ) and Soddu...Are there any other family names that have come up in anyone's research?

There is much more info on incoming ships than outgoing (genealogy research, I assume). However, somoeone travelling with five children to post-war Europe should stand out! Would travel to Europe have been restricted in any way, as this was only months after the end of WWII?

 

[LButler]

I've been doing a little research myself. First, Cipriani is a very common name originating from several places. In a Cipriani forum on roostweb, I think I found our "branch" of Cipriani's. It mentioned Maria Mateuca Ligueri (b 1873) marrying Guiseppe Cipriani (b 1870) in 1890. Their son, Frank Paul, went to Smithers, WV, and then on to FL. As of the 1930 census, Frank and Joe (probably brothers) Cipriani were both living in Smithers. I believe that Joe is our man because Frank was said to have moved on to FL.

Joe (b 1874) married to Mary (b 1876) children are:

Mary (b 1910)
James (b 1911)
Alma (b 1915)
Edna (b 1918)

Jenny was the oldest being born in 1903, but as of the 1930 census, she is married and in the household of George Sodder.

I don't know when Joe and Frank may have arrived in America.

There's reference to a rumor that the 5 kids were living in Fl with a member of her family, but all the kids in the household were proven to belong to the family. Could that have been Frank and Louise? (it appears from the 1930 census that Frank and Louise have 2 sons, Edward (1922) and Joseph (1925). If I'm correct in Frank and Joe being brothers, Frank and Louise would be Jenny's aunt and uncle.

 

[LButler]

I think there is a very good chance that the kids were not shipped back immediately upon their abduction. I'm completely ignorant of weather on the high sea and in Italy, but is there a chance that they would have waited until warmer weather to make the trip?

Something that has always stuck in my mind is one of the letters that LE supposedly received concerning the case. the person writing is very bad with english but he mentions a burial at sea and that the man was one of the Sodders sons. By him calling him a man, I assume this would be Maurice - an 8 year old is not likely to be called a man. It is a very interesting letter and I have tried to decipher it many times.

on the trail... fire chief's name at the time of the fire was J.F. Morris (I believe he went by the name of Forrest). I find it odd that the Braggs don't mention his name in the Unsolved book, but news articles freely name him. Anybody find it odd that the fire chief can't drive the fire truck? PUUU LEASE!!

shadowangel....very good. Now get us something we can work with here!!!:slap:

 

[Richard]

.... I find it odd that the Braggs don't mention his name in the Unsolved book, but news articles freely name him. Anybody find it odd that the fire chief can't drive the fire truck? PUUU LEASE!!...

There could be a number of reasons for not naming someone in a book, such as a court injunction or threat of a law suit.

A fire chief not knowing how to drive the fire truck? Sounds odd, but it reminds me of a story:

A man from Abraham Lincoln's home state had worked on his Presidential campaign, and (as was the custom at the time) he went to the White House to ask the new President for a political appointment as Postmaster of his home town. Lincoln greeted the man and heard him out. Then he said, "But Jim, why would you want such a job when you can't even read." The man replied, "I don't think you heard me right, Mr. President. I am asking for the job of Postmaster, not Assistant Postmaster."

 

[Stacy Horn]

I just want remind everyone again that the Sodder family is reading this thread. I don't want to silence anyone, and I'm not accusing anyone, but before you hit the "submit reply" button look over your post. Imagine how what you say will be taken by a member of the family. (I'm sure I'm the one who has said something stupid and insensitive, anyway!)

 

[mysteriew]

Stacy now might be a good time to mention that on these threads, we do a lot of conjecture, theorizing, and downright old fashioned guessing. We do pull up a lot of info from the web, it is as correct as the source we get it from. But at no time, should any of our guesses be taken as gospel- unless it is confirmed by LE. On any case I have ever seen worked on here, if any new leads or new info was developed- a call is always made to LE.
At any time we welcome family to post what they know, ask questions, submit their own theories, or tell local rumors. We do ask that they identify thier source. In other words if it is a rumor- please state so. If it is from media or a website info, please post a link. If it is theory, please say so. And the same if it is personal memories. We take a lot of our info from media articles and other sources on the web. It makes for better understandings when we do it that way. That is not to say that all of the info we have so far is correct. We do find this info from other sources and we can only be as correct as our source was.
If you find something that you feel is incorrect, please tell us. We know that media articles are not always 100% correct.
But above all, we do welcome you. Please feel free to join in. We all came here not knowing anybody at one time also. Don't be afraid to ask questions or too shy to join in. This is how we all got to know each other too.

 

[on the trail]

i agree with mysteryview , we encourage everyone to share what they have . i am glad that the folks are reading. it's to bad we didn't have the technolgy then that we do now . the info would have gotten out in hours not days . :twocents:

 

[shadowangel]

With a case that has lain dormant for 60 years, conjecture, theory, and wild speculation are all we have until facts are uncovered. Only by asking these questions WILL the truth be uncovered. Until we began really digging at this case, there was no discussion that I can find. (I googled up a few references to alien abduction)... I am certainly sympathetic to the family--but there are difficult questions that will have to be considered. At this point I have to applaud the courage shown by Upallnite-for anyone who has not read the thread "Mary G, Found Sun...", Upallnite's sister died under very suspicious circumstances. Several of us-Shadow205 and Mysteriew to mention only a couple-really took that case to heart. We have, and continue, to ask questions that we don't feel comfortable asking (the lengthy discussion of the autopsy report, for instance)...But is only through these questions, in the light of no apparent law enforcement interest, will the truth ever see the light of day. I think most of us rarely lose sight of the fact that we are discussing real people and real lives here.
I personally am not willing to walk any lighter simply because police now show an interest, when the facts of the Sodder children have been out there, somewhere, for more than half a century. If a member of the family is uncomfortable, however, please ask them to let us know and I will respect their wishes.
It should not have been up to the vague boyhood memory of middle-aged me to get this rolling again...
(Sorry, I've been at work since yesterday morning and am a little grumpy!!! :blowkiss: )

 

[on the trail]

other questions , what other type of work did mr morris do besides run the fire dept ,it was a vol fire dept , who else ruled on the cause of the fire. was it just local folks or others . was there a jewish-italian spat in the area at the time.