You're so Vain by Carly Simon mystery man

[Steely Dan]

I'm tempted to more believe the composite of several people theory, because if it was about just one person, I don't think it would still be a mystery. 3 verses/sections of the song divided by the chorus could be for 3 different guys? I'm thinking Howard Stern was probably right when he said the composite thing.

My belief is that she took one guy and then added the qualities of two others who are minor players. IIRC, she's said it's a little about WB.

1 I think it was WRITTEN about one guy. Maybe she's seen ways it can apply to others too, but ...

She sold the secret name to Ebersol in an auction in 2003. That implied a name, a single answer, not a vague list of kinda's. But I think she likes the tease, and fuzzying up the answer over the years.

2 I want to believe the answer is Warren Beatty. There are others she has denied. With Beatty, she always hints at how ludicrous it is, but then dances away without ever truly answering the question. Over and over.

But objectively, I think she's teasing, and maybe thinking it fit him well, thought she didn't actually write it about him.

He was a huge star in the late 60s, with Bonnie and Clyde (1967) being a huge box-office and critical triumph for him (he was the producer as well as the star) opposite Faye Dunaway. That (1967) was at age 30 for him, and CS would have been 22. She was a rich kid playing in bands and not yet a music star, so I'm left to wonder if they could have possibly crossed paths that early. I don't think so. One site says their relationship was in 1972-73, but I'm not sure that's right either.

If they met and dated somewhere in 66-67-68-69 years, I can see it. But I don't know if that happened.

I also wonder if WB had a history of sleeping with anyone, ie a close friend's wife. My impression has been that he's been a serial monogamist over the years, rather than a lout, but that's just an impression.

So with WB, I think she wrote the song about someone else, then as the song came out and she was in the same orbit, she thinks, "Well, you're so vain it could fit you as well."

3 I truly wonder if the name isn't really a person we would notice. Someone mega-rich, jet-setting, super sociable in certain circles (esp NY or LA), perhaps the child of big money like she is (and a spoiled brat), but not necessarily a celebrity known by all. If that's true, revealing the name becomes a letdown, and offers more rationale for why she's keeping it close to the vest.

She doesn't strike me as a spoiled brat at all. If she was I don't think she would have worked as hard as she has to make it. JMO

ETA: I think I misread that. You weren't calling her a spoiled brat. You were calling the subject of the song a spoiled brat. :doh:

 

[Ausgirl]

So with WB, I think she wrote the song about someone else, then as the song came out and she was in the same orbit, she thinks, "Well, you're so vain it could fit you as well."

3 I truly wonder if the name isn't really a person we would notice. Someone mega-rich, jet-setting, super sociable in certain circles (esp NY or LA), perhaps the child of big money like she is (and a spoiled brat), but not necessarily a celebrity known by all. If that's true, revealing the name becomes a letdown, and offers more rationale for why she's keeping it close to the vest.

I like this line of reasoning.

 

[SteveS]

I was guessing HE was a spoiled brat. Thus, the song and the actions it describes. I merely noted that maybe he came from money as she did, explaining how they might have crossed paths.

 

[Tracie5]

Hugh Hefner had a Learjet and ties to Nova Scotia.

 

[Steely Dan]

I was guessing HE was a spoiled brat. Thus, the song and the actions it describes. I merely noted that maybe he came from money as she did, explaining how they might have crossed paths.

Yeah, I just figured that out and added an ETA to my post. Sorry. :facepalm:

Hugh Hefner had a Learjet and ties to Nova Scotia.

Interesting thought. Are there any ties there? If I were Hef I'd never leave the mansion to go to Nova Scotia, but that's just me. :angel2:

 

[Ausgirl]

Interesting comment:

I don't know why more people aren't mentioning Carly's cocky, handsome, "too cool" guitarist lover, Daniel Armstrong. Carly was head over heels for him in the late 60's early 70's, and even kept trying to get back with him for years after they broke up. He was all three letters that Carly says are in the name, He dated her for two years, he was her main squeeze right before she wrote the song, and during the total eclipse of the sun.
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=536

 

[Steely Dan]

Interesting comment:

I don't know why more people aren't mentioning Carly's cocky, handsome, "too cool" guitarist lover, Daniel Armstrong. Carly was head over heels for him in the late 60's early 70's, and even kept trying to get back with him for years after they broke up. He was all three letters that Carly says are in the name, He dated her for two years, he was her main squeeze right before she wrote the song, and during the total eclipse of the sun.
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=536

I ruled him out because he died in 2004. In 2009 Stern said He's not that vain. Instead of He wasn't that vain.

 

[Tracie5]

I know I found a Hugh Hefner/Nova Scotia tie the other day. Now I can't find it!!!:gaah:

 

[Ausgirl]

Ooh -- what about one of the Beatles??!!

WITH SGT. PEPPER FINISHED, PAUL DECIDED TOPAY A SURPRISE VISIT to Jane on her twenty-first birthday on 5 April. She was touring the USA with the Bristol Old Vic playing Romeo and Juliet. On 3 April 1967, two Air France officials arrived at Cavendish Avenue to pick up Paul and Mal Evans, and not long afterwards they touched down at Orly Airport, Paris. From there they took a direct flight to Los Angeles. Paul had intended to bring a copy of the photograph for the sleeve of Sgt. Pepper to show Jane but he forgot. He also forgot to check if his American visa was still valid so it took a half-hour to get him through immigration in Los Angeles. Travelling in style, they hired Frank Sinatra's private Lear jet to fly to San Francisco, which was experiencing its first snow in forty-two years. Here they showed up unannounced at the Fillmore Auditorium, where the Jefferson Airplane happened to be rehearsing. Paul accompanied Marty Balin and Jack Casady to the apartment on Oak Street they shared with their road manager Bill Thompson. Paul played them the acetate of Sgt. Pepper he was bringing for Jane and told them about a wonderful new guitarist called Jimi Hendrix. They attempted a jam session, but Paul, being left-handed, found it hard to play Casady's bass upside down. The members of the Airplane toked up on DMT mixed with pot, which Paul decided to forgo. Jack Casady drove them back to their hotel and next day Paul and Mal flew on to Denver.

http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=11572.410;wap2

There's Frank's Learjet!!!! lol..

George Harrison can be seen in the crowd of one of her early concerts - the one when she first met Cat Stevens, and she's in that short red dress with the splits.

Howard Stern said he didn't think the person was very vain - none of the Beatles come across vain like Jagger or Bowie, but they were still monumentally famous rock stars.

"Learjet" could also pertain to the 8-tracks the Beatles used: http://www.friktech.com/btls/tapes/8tks.pdf

In 1974, George Harrison was swanning about in a private Learjet, though I dunno if it's his own, leased, or .. Frank's, hehe.

Apparently the bass player on "You're So Vain" was a long time friend of the Beatles.

The Beatles split up in 1970: http://www.upi.com/Archives/Audio/Events-of-1970/Eclipse-and-the-Beatles-Split/

And (now it's getting kinda spooky, folks) "Metamorphosis" is about man who turns into a --- BEETLE!

 

[Steely Dan]

Ooh -- what about one of the Beatles??!!

WITH SGT. PEPPER FINISHED, PAUL DECIDED TOPAY A SURPRISE VISIT to Jane on her twenty-first birthday on 5 April. She was touring the USA with the Bristol Old Vic playing Romeo and Juliet. On 3 April 1967, two Air France officials arrived at Cavendish Avenue to pick up Paul and Mal Evans, and not long afterwards they touched down at Orly Airport, Paris. From there they took a direct flight to Los Angeles. Paul had intended to bring a copy of the photograph for the sleeve of Sgt. Pepper to show Jane but he forgot. He also forgot to check if his American visa was still valid so it took a half-hour to get him through immigration in Los Angeles. Travelling in style, they hired Frank Sinatra's private Lear jet to fly to San Francisco, which was experiencing its first snow in forty-two years. Here they showed up unannounced at the Fillmore Auditorium, where the Jefferson Airplane happened to be rehearsing. Paul accompanied Marty Balin and Jack Casady to the apartment on Oak Street they shared with their road manager Bill Thompson. Paul played them the acetate of Sgt. Pepper he was bringing for Jane and told them about a wonderful new guitarist called Jimi Hendrix. They attempted a jam session, but Paul, being left-handed, found it hard to play Casady's bass upside down. The members of the Airplane toked up on DMT mixed with pot, which Paul decided to forgo. Jack Casady drove them back to their hotel and next day Paul and Mal flew on to Denver.

http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=11572.410;wap2

There's Frank's Learjet!!!! lol..

George Harrison can be seen in the crowd of one of her early concerts - the one when she first met Cat Stevens, and she's in that short red dress with the splits.

Howard Stern said he didn't think the person was very vain - none of the Beatles come across vain like Jagger or Bowie, but they were still monumentally famous rock stars.

"Learjet" could also pertain to the 8-tracks the Beatles used: http://www.friktech.com/btls/tapes/8tks.pdf

In 1974, George Harrison was swanning about in a private Learjet, though I dunno if it's his own, leased, or .. Frank's, hehe.

Apparently the bass player on "You're So Vain" was a long time friend of the Beatles.

And (now it's getting kinda spooky, folks) "Metamorphosis" is about man who turns into a --- BEETLE!

Very good sleuthing, but Paul was dating Jane Asher and I don't recall any allegations of cheating coming from them. Mal Evans is dead and so is Sinatra. Stern said: "He's not that vain." so, IMO the subject is still alive.

 

[Wing Ding]

OK, who is this song ("You're So Vain") about?

Is this supposed to be a guessing game just for fun or a serious question?

Because if it's a serious question, I have the serious answer.

 

[Ausgirl]

Is this supposed to be a guessing game just for fun or a serious question?

Because if it's a serious question, I have the serious answer.

:hanging:

 

[Wing Ding]

I'm reading all the posts in this thread before I post my answer. In the meantime I'll post my fav Carly song for all to enjoy.

Honestly... she could sing the phone book to me and I'd never get tired of listening to her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJW3oWNri-o

 

[Wing Ding]

The rumored answer I recall from back in the day was then (and now) Gov. Jerry Brown (Edmund Gerald Brown, Jr).

Brown wasn't Gov. of CA. until 1975. Two years after the song was recorded. He was, however, romantically linked with Linda Ronstadt. Not a rumor.

 

[Wing Ding]

Is everyone assuming that the clue she's given (the letters A, E, R) is even true, and not a Red Herring?

I mean just to keep everyone guessing, she could say whatever letters she wanted to, right?

Even the two main suspects she's ruled out... Jagger and Beatty... it could still be one of them for all we know.

 

[Wing Ding]

It's "You're so Vain" not "You're so Stoned" :giggle:



:laughcry:

That reminds me of Van Halen's remake of Nicolette Larsen's version of a Neil Young song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsxPxGmeL7Y

 

[wfgodot]

Surprisingly good stuff.

[video=youtu;TlO2FDcAHM8]http://youtu.be/TlO2FDcAHM8[/video]

 

[Steely Dan]

Is this supposed to be a guessing game just for fun or a serious question?

Because if it's a serious question, I have the serious answer.

Yes, it is a serious question. Some of us are taking it more seriously than others. By that I mean that some are trawling the web deeper to find clues, than others. It appears that everyone who's posted is interested in finding out the answer.

 

[JohnTate90210]

This reminds me of the long-running mystery of who's the father of the child of Mama Cass.

 

[wfgodot]

This reminds me of the long-running mystery of who's the father of the child of Mama Cass.

Yes.

For a very good read about the Mamas and Papas, Vanity Fair's lengthy piece from 2007 discusses, among many other matters, not only this (see below) but also Michelle Phillips's Black Dahlia connection. Decadent stuff.

Michelle’s next project was less fraught. At some point in the mid-80s, when Owen Elliot was in her late teens, she called Michelle and said, “You have to help me find my father!” Michelle spent a year running down leads through musician friends. Once she had pried loose the name Cass had kept so close to her vest, she placed an ad in a musicians’ publication, urging the man to call an “accountant” (hers), implying a royalty windfall. Like clockwork, Cass’s long-ago secret lover took the bait. When Michelle phoned him, she recalls, “he wasn’t all that shocked,” and, the next day, Owen says, “Michelle . me a plane ticket and said, ‘Go meet him.’ ” (Owen and Michelle will not reveal the name. Owen says only, “I had envisioned this Norwegian prince.&#8221 The meeting “answered a lot of questions,” says Owen.

California Dreamgirl (VF)

Hm. What music-type might that have been?