You're so Vain by Carly Simon mystery man

[rosesfromangels]

I know she has ruled out one of my favs, Sir Mick, but there was lots of talk about the underworld when Brian Jones passed. Mick is such a peacock, he certainly suits the song despite the fact he sang backup. Lol.

This is almost as good as the abbey road mysteries perpetuated by John and Paul.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

IIRC, Carly Simon was friendly with Truman Capote. Could the song be about him? He would have worn an apricot scarf, Gavotted, flown a Lear jet...

 

[Ausgirl]

IIRC, Carly Simon was friendly with Truman Capote. Could the song be about him? He would have worn an apricot scarf, Gavotted, flown a Lear jet...

ooh, I did not know this! Capote is much more likely to do any of those things than Bob Dylan in that era.

He was pretty much openly gay... Could the song be less about a failed relationship, than the unrequited feelings of a woman in love with a gay man? Carly sings, "You gave away the *things* you loved, and one of them was me".. loved her as a woman? Or a just friend?

I'm not sure he was all that good looking circa 1970, though. Perhaps still "attractive"?

 

[Steely Dan]

Nancy Sinatra version-

[video=youtube;XgFtQPgHyek]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgFtQPgHyek[/video]

Put both of those videos in the James Bond theme thread. :happydance:

IIRC, Carly Simon was friendly with Truman Capote. Could the song be about him? He would have worn an apricot scarf, Gavotted, flown a Lear jet...

ooh, I did not know this! Capote is much more likely to do any of those things than Bob Dylan in that era.

He was pretty much openly gay... Could the song be less about a failed relationship, than the unrequited feelings of a woman in love with a gay man? Carly sings, "You gave away the *things* you loved, and one of them was me".. loved her as a woman? Or a just friend?

I'm not sure he was all that good looking circa 1970, though. Perhaps still "attractive"?

The song is about three people. Capote may be the third. :thinking:

 

[Ausgirl]

"You" flew "your" learjet....

In 1964, there were only 200 Learjets in existence. In 1973, there were 360. They must have been hideously expensive to hire, let alone own. So the guy obviously had a LOT of money.

What about Frank Sinatra? He fits the whole underworld spy thing, and was richer'n Croesus. And I'm pretty sure he owned a Learjet.

Can't say I can see him gavotting or wearing apricot scarves, though. That's more your Truman Capote/ flamboyant rock star territory.

 

[wfgodot]

Capote flew with the Stones on several legs of their '72 'Exile' tour, but if we're talking scarves, we're talking Jagger baby.

 

[STEADFAST]

All we need to do is figure out who'd watch himself in the mirror while doing this:
[video=youtube;zo1LfU67XJc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84359240&v=zo1LfU67XJc&feature=player_detailpag e&x-yt-ts=1421782837[/video]

 

[Ausgirl]

Sinatra might fit this verse..

Well I hear you went to Saratoga
And your horse, naturally, won -- 'naturally'? why 'naturally'?? reference to fixed races?
Then you flew your Learjet up to Nova Scotia -- Frank bought a learjet, at a cost of $495,000, sometime in the mid 60's
To see the total eclipse of the sun
Well, you're where you should be all the time -- like an alibi? sly reference to being 'helped' along by mafia links?
And when you're not, you're with some underworld spy -- mafia informants? or maybe Irene Tsu, whom he was seeing 1969-71, so the time fits, and she often played spy roles -- was Carly jealous of Irene, the 'real' girlfriend?
Or the wife of a close friend,
Wife of a close friend, -- Sinatra slept with several wives of good friends, including Lauren Becall and Marilyn Monroe

 

[wfgodot]

All we need to do is figure out who'd watch himself in the mirror while doing this

Answer (if I might be rhetorical): Mr Michael (Mick) Jagger.

 

[Ausgirl]

All we need to do is figure out who'd watch himself in the mirror while doing this:
[video=youtube;zo1LfU67XJc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84359240&v=zo1LfU67XJc&feature=player_detailpag e&x-yt-ts=1421782837[/video]

Not actually a contender for Mystery Man, but ...

 

[rosesfromangels]

Capote flew with the Stones on several legs of their '72 'Exile' tour, but if we're talking scarves, we're talking Jagger baby.

True, but Beatty was a big scarves guy too...and a serious dandy.

 

[wfgodot]

True, but Beatty was a big scarves guy too...and a serious dandy.

Hm....so, but not quite-so; and he didn't sing back-up on the song in question, as did Jagger, who had to be convinced in his own Mick-Jagger mind the song was about him, or he'd have never touched the track in the first place. Uh, I think.

 

[Steely Dan]

Sinatra might fit this verse..

Well I hear you went to Saratoga
And your horse, naturally, won -- 'naturally'? why 'naturally'?? reference to fixed races?
Then you flew your Learjet up to Nova Scotia -- Frank bought a learjet, at a cost of $495,000, sometime in the mid 60's
To see the total eclipse of the sun
Well, you're where you should be all the time -- like an alibi? sly reference to being 'helped' along by mafia links?
And when you're not, you're with some underworld spy -- mafia informants? or maybe Irene Tsu, whom he was seeing 1969-71, so the time fits, and she often played spy roles -- was Carly jealous of Irene, the 'real' girlfriend?
Or the wife of a close friend,
Wife of a close friend, -- Sinatra slept with several wives of good friends, including Lauren Becall and Marilyn Monroe

:thinking: Could be.

Hm....so, but not quite-so; and he didn't sing back-up on the song in question, as did Jagger, who had to be convinced in his own Mick-Jagger mind the song was about him, or he'd have never touched the track in the first place. Uh, I think.

Jagger's been ruled out by Carly anyway.

 

[Ausgirl]

some more notes on Sinatra and his 'underworld spy':

November 68 Frank Sinatra is reported escorting her and Quinn O'Hara
August 69 will star with Frank Sinatra in an espionage tale to be filmed in Hong Kong
December 69 columnist Marilyn Beck reports about Ava Gardner's upcoming visit to Hollywood: "You can bet Frank Sinatra has already been informed of the trip and that Irene Tsu would be just as happy if Ava remained in Europe..."
January 71 will co-star with James Mason in The Yin and the Yang. Columnist Marilyn Beck tells that so she won't be around to object to Hope Lange's friendship dates with Frank Sinatra. "Irene, you might know, has been Frank's semi-steady chick for close to a year."

 

[rosesfromangels]

Hm....so, but not quite-so; and he didn't sing back-up on the song in question, as did Jagger, who had to be convinced in his own Mick-Jagger mind the song was about him, or he'd have never touched the track in the first place. Uh, I think.

Very likely. That said, for some reason I don't see Sir Mick as a malicious heartbreaker. Heartbreaker, yes, but more the contrite heartbreaker type. Now Beatty, from what I've read and from quotes from his sister Shirley was a true S.O.B. when it came to moving through women. At least Sir Mick was gallant enough to leave them with parting gifts.....

Another thought is that Mick & Carly had a mutual dislike for someone, and Mick teamed up with her to rub it in. I even thought it could have been Brian Jones, but he had passed a few years before this song was written. He was a major dandy.

 

[Steely Dan]

some more notes on Sinatra and his 'underworld spy':

November 68 Frank Sinatra is reported escorting her and Quinn O'Hara
August 69 will star with Frank Sinatra in an espionage tale to be filmed in Hong Kong
December 69 columnist Marilyn Beck reports about Ava Gardner's upcoming visit to Hollywood: "You can bet Frank Sinatra has already been informed of the trip and that Irene Tsu would be just as happy if Ava remained in Europe..."
January 71 will co-star with James Mason in The Yin and the Yang. Columnist Marilyn Beck tells that so she won't be around to object to Hope Lange's friendship dates with Frank Sinatra. "Irene, you might know, has been Frank's semi-steady chick for close to a year."

Do you have a link and has she ever been linked to Sinatra?

 

[Steely Dan]

some more notes on Sinatra and his 'underworld spy':

November 68 Frank Sinatra is reported escorting her and Quinn O'Hara
August 69 will star with Frank Sinatra in an espionage tale to be filmed in Hong Kong
December 69 columnist Marilyn Beck reports about Ava Gardner's upcoming visit to Hollywood: "You can bet Frank Sinatra has already been informed of the trip and that Irene Tsu would be just as happy if Ava remained in Europe..."
January 71 will co-star with James Mason in The Yin and the Yang. Columnist Marilyn Beck tells that so she won't be around to object to Hope Lange's friendship dates with Frank Sinatra. "Irene, you might know, has been Frank's semi-steady chick for close to a year."

Carly is not on the list of Frank Sinatra girlfriends according to Wiki, but we all know how accurate that can be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_relationships_of_Frank_Sinatra

Also, the clues lead me to believe that the person was alive in 2009 and probably still is. So that would leave Sinatra out.

 

[wfgodot]

Sinatra? Um, yeah, a few minutes' marriage to Mia, same generation (and same age, both born in 1945). Not out of the question, but really -- can't see it (and don't wanna look!). Just totally not our Carly, thanks. Jagger, however -- was there anyone (begging the question) who was not attracted to a young Mick Jagger?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Sinatra? Um, yeah, a few minutes' marriage to Mia, same generation (and same age, both born in 1945). Not out of the question, but really -- can't see it (and don't wanna look!). Just totally not our Carly, thanks. Jagger, however -- was there anyone (begging the question) who was not attracted to a young Mick Jagger?

Blush......

 

[Ausgirl]

Sinatra dated - and bedded - quite a few much-younger women. Carly was 25 in '70. Frank was 55, and dating 28-yo Irene, whom he'd been seeing for 2 years already.

Link for Dan: http://www.glamourgirlsofthesilverscreen.com/show/517/Irene+Tsu/index.html

Some info on the song's creation which suggests the 'scarf' and 'gavotte' bit might not actually be about THE guy:

Carly came to see Richard at his Laurel Canyon house in May of 1972, bearing a song she had just written, the gentle, somewhat folkie Ballad Of A Vain Man (she'd loved Dylan's Ballad Of A Thin Man).

The song had come together in four separate parts. First, she'd sketched out in her journal the beginning of a song called Bless You, Ben (using the same melody as You're So Vain). Then, on a flight from L.A. to Palm Springs, she'd added another, totally unrelated line to her journal when her seat mate, musician Billy Mernit, looked into the cup on his tray and said, "Doesn't that shape look like clouds in my coffee?" Thirdly, at one point when she was feeling vengeful about the men who'd emotionally laid her low, she'd scribbled another: "you're so vain, I bet you think this song is about you." Finally, everything came together at a party in L.A. A man she knew walked in, with a certain attitude, "and I said to myself, This is exactly the person that you're so vain is about.

The song reflected her belle-of-the-ball year and a half, which had negatively affected her self-esteem more than it seemed on the surface. Carly had belt-notched all those coveted hotties - Cat Stevens, Kris Kristofferson, Warren Beatty, Jack Nicholson, Mick Jagger, not to mention the unfamous ones (and her truly loved James Taylor) - and with her "extreme intelligence and worldy wit," Ellen observed, she had enjoyed the party. Yet, Ellen adds, "I don't think she knew how to do it from her heart." Jake agrees, "Those were all wrenching emotional affairs for her." Sexual revolution or not, she'd felt used.

http://www.girlslikeusthemusic.com/2010/08/chapter-12.html