Zellner Tweets

[BigCityAccountant]

Any blood spatter experts among them by any chance?

Perhaps....you'll just have to wait and see.

 

[dexter75]

:loveyou: Exactly!

Thanks❤

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[dexter75]

I'm not sure... but I think so? Stahlke testified about the blood in the RAV4, including the spatter on the back door. I went back to read his qualifications, in the testimony, he was referred to as a blood stain expert (nothing about spatter, but he testifies about it). I continued to read for a bit... the wording is interesting... the bloodstains are described as the transfer of blood from a bloody object, or bloody item, or blood source, onto an unstained surface He is asked if it could have come from SA's cut... which it could have.... but of course, it's direct testimony. I haven't read his cross examination recently, but I'm pretty sure it was also pointed out that it "could have" come from other sources too. Also.... the "quantity" still makes me question the stains as well.

Sometimes I read this stuff and I just cannot believe that a jury convicted, although, I also have the benefit of going over the testimony more than once, having documents they didn't have, having the photo's to look at whenever I want. JMO

I too, can't fathom how " reasonable doubt " wasn't smack dab in the face of each and every juror.
Although it's easy to feel threatened in a town such as this one IMO
And it might have been intimidating to know a fellow juror was related to a Manitowoc County Sheriff.
JMHO

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[Limaes]

There are points that are being missed...

The FBI had done the test before, for the OJ trial, which was later found to maybe not be so reliable, after being reviewed IIRC And again, the FBI lab is not available to defendants. I think there was another lab that was doing similar tests, but also not very reliable. So what was Buting and Strang supposed to do? Pull a scientist out of thin air and pay that scientist in monopoly money to do a test that they had never done before? All I can say to that is ... whatever LOL

I recall seeing the video where both sides, State and Defense, and I believe Wiegert opened the box and found the blood vial in it. The defense, even if they knew about the box, didn't know what was in it (if anything) until it was opened, I thought they had to get permission to open it from the courts? But again... the point is being missed.... in early 2006, there is an email acknowledging the "blood", if for whatever reason Wiegert didn't find that vial of blood, it's just further evidence of his poor investigation skills I guess.

One of the only smart things the judge did was ordering that the blood vial and swabs, etc. were to be preserved for testing at a later date if/when testing was to be done by the defense. Whether all those items have been preserved is yet to be known. JMO

I will say the above is JMO because I really don't have the time to look for links at the moment.

No, there is nothing missing. You have just not read it. I provided sources with all the info which not only included information about the OJ test, the review of that test, results of that review, changes in instruments and procedures as a result of that review, peer reviews stating it is a credible test to be used in Court and the Court Judge allowing the test.

So what was Buting and Strang supposed to do?

Haha, its quiet simple,

1. Disclose their intention to use the blood vial as evidence of planting much sooner than they did so the State would pay for the test with scientists the defense doesn't have access to.

2. When the State requests to do the test, don't try and block it

You probably recall seeing the video from MaM. The one were they edited Buting's "red letter day" rhetoric over the footage so we couldn't hear what Weigert and Gahn were saying.

Bottom line is, the defense did not attempt, or want, that blood vial and smears tested to make a comparison. What great lawyers they are. They were prepared to sit on evidence that could have been exculpatory to their own client. What makes it worse, is that it was the same evidence they were claiming points to his innocence. Oh boy! LOL

 

[Karinna]

No, there is nothing missing. You have just not read it. I provided sources with all the info which not only included information about the OJ test, the review of that test, results of that review, changes in instruments and procedures as a result of that review, peer reviews stating it is a credible test to be used in Court and the Court Judge allowing the test.

So what was Buting and Strang supposed to do?

Haha, its quiet simple,

1. Disclose their intention to use the blood vial as evidence of planting much sooner than they did so the State would pay for the test with scientists the defense doesn't have access to.

2. When the State requests to do the test, don't try and block it

You probably recall seeing the video from MaM. The one were they edited Buting's "red letter day" rhetoric over the footage so we couldn't hear what Weigert and Gahn were saying.

Bottom line is, the defense did not attempt, or want, that blood vial and smears tested to make a comparison. What great lawyers they are. They were prepared to sit on evidence that could have been exculpatory to their own client. What makes it worse, is that it was the same evidence they were claiming points to his innocence. Oh boy! LOL

How would you know what the defense were doing or had in mind?

 

[missy1974]

How would you know what the defense were doing or had in mind?

No one does. But if the State and LE had done their job, they would have found the vial of blood long before the defense did. oh wait.... they maintain that Steven knew about the blood... Okay then LOL SA knew he had blood drawn, more than once, I guess we should just ask SA where all that other blood is being kept, because he must know?

Limaes ~ the links you provided do not show me that the test that was conducted in February 2007 were peer reviewed. They are motions from before the test was even conducted. OJ's EDTA test being peer reviewed in the 90's has no relevance because they didn't do the test the same way. JMO

Off to work... have a great day websleuthers!

 

[dexter75]

No one does. But if the State and LE had done their job, they would have found the vial of blood long before the defense did. oh wait.... they maintain that Steven knew about the blood... Okay then LOL SA knew he had blood drawn, more than once, I guess we should just ask SA where all that other blood is being kept, because he must know?

Limaes ~ the links you provided do not show me that the test that was conducted in February 2007 were peer reviewed. They are motions from before the test was even conducted. OJ's EDTA test being peer reviewed in the 90's has no relevance because they didn't do the test the same way. JMO

Off to work... have a great day websleuthers!

Excellent and extremely valid points here, Missy!😉
What always got me..and I'm not BIG on everything I've seen in the documentary ( like you, I just rather read transcripts and police reports) is the fact that the SEAL ON THE CONTAINER ( which held the blood vial ) HAD OBVIOUSLY BEEN BROKEN.
That bothered me. The way Manitowoc stores evidence BOTHERS ME.
Another thing that gets to me..and we have had this conversation before.. is the folks who are SO AGAINST THIS CASE BEING LOOKED INTO.
COOLJ stated a while back to someone ( think it was CoolJ) that what is the harm in making sure Avery wasn't SET UP..AGAIN?!
Where's the harm in this?
Unless you are Teresa's closest friends or family and reliving this nightmare ( which is terribly sad for them on one hand..on the other though, wouldn't they want absolute truth? ) ...WHY DO PEOPLE GET SO CRAZY OVER THE INVESTIGATION?!
If I thought Avery GUILTY, I would STILL SAY " please, by all means, INVESTIGATE " Why? Because it is absolutely, blatantly obvious that the investigation conducted the first time around, was EXTREMELY FLAWED.
EVERYONE who has actually taken the time to read the transcripts and police reports agrees ( here) that YES, certain details of the investigation make ya go hmmmm. ( even if it is something as " innocent " as Manitowoc being a part of the investigation when clearly they were not supposed to be )
Ya know, if I thought Avery was 100% GUILTY ..AND LE planted a couple of things to help secure the conviction..I would STILL SAY " INVESTIGATE "
Why?
Because I have nothing to lose/gain either way.
Because I believe TERESA will get actual JUSTICE ( as long as everything is on the " up & up " this time around according to the LAW)
Ya know what else? If Avery is indeed proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he murdered Teresa, ( after the initial shock where's off..because I will be totally blown away by this ) I will gladly come on WS to say " WOW! Didn't see that coming! All of you GUILTY folks were right all along " and will happily & very willingly discuss the details😉
( Having learned a lot for sure! Especially the fact that more people than I ever thought possible are extremely bias..)

In closing I just wanted to add, I have had more than one CLOSE friend MURDERED.
IMO, if there were the same issues, or even a legit reason to believe that any one of the investigations into their deaths were questionable, or the wrong person was jailed for the crime...
I'd be the first person to say " hey, this needs looking into"
Not a chance in hell that I would even question a second investigation if it confirms all along what LE originally said happened.
JMO
You have a great day too, my friend😉
Same to everyone else!


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[missy1974]

Excellent and extremely valid points here, Missy!��
What always got me..and I'm not BIG on everything I've seen in the documentary ( like you, I just rather read transcripts and police reports) is the fact that the SEAL ON THE CONTAINER ( which held the blood vial ) HAD OBVIOUSLY BEEN BROKEN.
That bothered me. The way Manitowoc stores evidence BOTHERS ME.
Another thing that gets to me..and we have had this conversation before.. is the folks who are SO AGAINST THIS CASE BEING LOOKED INTO.
COOLJ stated a while back to someone ( think it was CoolJ) that what is the harm in making sure Avery wasn't SET UP..AGAIN?!
Where's the harm in this?
Unless you are Teresa's closest friends or family and reliving this nightmare ( which is terribly sad for them on one hand..on the other though, wouldn't they want absolute truth? ) ...WHY DO PEOPLE GET SO CRAZY OVER THE INVESTIGATION?!
If I thought Avery GUILTY, I would STILL SAY " please, by all means, INVESTIGATE " Why? Because it is absolutely, blatantly obvious that the investigation conducted the first time around, was EXTREMELY FLAWED.
EVERYONE who has actually taken the time to read the transcripts and police reports agrees ( here) that YES, certain details of the investigation make ya go hmmmm. ( even if it is something as " innocent " as Manitowoc being a part of the investigation when clearly they were not supposed to be )
Ya know, if I thought Avery was 100% GUILTY ..AND LE planted a couple of things to help secure the conviction..I would STILL SAY " INVESTIGATE "
Why?
Because I have nothing to lose/gain either way.
Because I believe TERESA will get actual JUSTICE ( as long as everything is on the " up & up " this time around according to the LAW)
Ya know what else? If Avery is indeed proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he murdered Teresa, ( after the initial shock where's off..because I will be totally blown away by this ) I will gladly come on WS to say " WOW! Didn't see that coming! All of you GUILTY folks were right all along " and will happily & very willingly discuss the details��
( Having learned a lot for sure! Especially the fact that more people than I ever thought possible are extremely bias..)

In closing I just wanted to add, I have had more than one CLOSE friend MURDERED.
IMO, if there were the same issues, or even a legit reason to believe that any one of the investigations into their deaths were questionable, or the wrong person was jailed for the crime...
I'd be the first person to say " hey, this needs looking into"
Not a chance in hell that I would even question a second investigation if it confirms all along what LE originally said happened.
JMO
You have a great day too, my friend��
Same to everyone else!


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So either you are having a good day or you typed all of that with your nose!!! LOL

I totally agree with you dexter and anyone else that has said it... what is the harm? We really do have nothing to gain or lose over SA's case. I do think BD's case is different though, I think there is something to gain or lose there.... I think if his case goes further that it may have some impact on how interrogations involving youth are handled in the future, and that should mean something to anyone living in the States.

At this point, to be honest, I just want to know what happened, whether it was SA or someone else. I have looked for and asked others for plausible scenario's, and none of them involving something happening at the Salvage Yard make sense to me with the totality of the information we have been given ( who was around that day, in and out, fire vs. no fire vs. how hot a fire would have to be, etc.). And you know how I feel about the narrative that was given to Teresa's family, using Brendan's "confession" with no physical evidence to back it up... terrible IMO

 

[dexter75]

So either you are having a good day or you typed all of that with your nose!!! LOL

I totally agree with you dexter and anyone else that has said it... what is the harm? We really do have nothing to gain or lose over SA's case. I do think BD's case is different though, I think there is something to gain or lose there.... I think if his case goes further that it may have some impact on how interrogations involving youth are handled in the future, and that should mean something to anyone living in the States.

At this point, to be honest, I just want to know what happened, whether it was SA or someone else. I have looked for and asked others for plausible scenario's, and none of them involving something happening at the Salvage Yard make sense to me with the totality of the information we have been given ( who was around that day, in and out, fire vs. no fire vs. how hot a fire would have to be, etc.). And you know how I feel about the narrative that was given to Teresa's family, using Brendan's "confession" with no physical evidence to back it up... terrible IMO

Having a fabulous couple of days, thanks! ( my nose, lol! you're to much lol )
Agree, Brendans case is way different..IMO

 

[dexter75]

No one does. But if the State and LE had done their job, they would have found the vial of blood long before the defense did. oh wait.... they maintain that Steven knew about the blood... Okay then LOL SA knew he had blood drawn, more than once, I guess we should just ask SA where all that other blood is being kept, because he must know?

Limaes ~ the links you provided do not show me that the test that was conducted in February 2007 were peer reviewed. They are motions from before the test was even conducted. OJ's EDTA test being peer reviewed in the 90's has no relevance because they didn't do the test the same way. JMO

Off to work... have a great day websleuthers!

BBM

I read those links over and over and thought, huh?:waitasec: As far as the blood vial...:cheers:

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Having a fabulous couple of days, thanks! ( my nose, lol! you're to much lol )
Agree, Brendans case is way different..IMO

.
Well, at least she stayed awake long enough to type all that...:loveyou: Dex!

So, let me ask a question because ya know...I'm an accountant...LOL

Do killers usually leave the bodies on their properties or do they separate themselves from the crime and crime scene? Asking because I just don't know the answer.

As far as the blood testing....it was a Chess match between the defense and the prosecution...no one was going to show their cards before they had too.

 

[missy1974]

.
Well, at least she stayed awake long enough to type all that...:loveyou: Dex!

So, let me ask a question because ya know...I'm an accountant...LOL

Do killers usually leave the bodies on their properties or do they separate themselves from the crime and crime scene? Asking because I just don't know the answer.

As far as the blood testing....it was a Chess match between the defense and the prosecution...no one was going to show their cards before they had too.

The vial was a chess match for sure.

From the little research that I did, there was one other lab that had done testing with EDTA, other than the FBI, and what I read, the courts rejected reliability and the Doc that performed the test. So as a defense attorney, I don't know where they could go and get the test done by an "outside" source and have confidence in both the test and that it would be admissible?

Here is a link with some very basic information about another court case and the EDTA testing: http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/ev...verymaking-a-murderercase-a-lot-has-been.html

When I was looking to see if it was ever peer reviewed I had come across a motion from the State and it had said that they needed to find out more info, like who drew the blood, how much blood was drawn in the vial, chain of custody, etc. Arggggh I wish someone had answered the "how much blood was drawn" question!!!! That one has been in the back of my head for months! Along with.... was there other blood? And if there was other blood, was it preserved with something other than EDTA? I guess someone needs to ask Steve where it is :biggrin:

 

[missy1974]

Having a fabulous couple of days, thanks! ( my nose, lol! you're to much lol )
Agree, Brendans case is way different..IMO

Great to hear, I hope you have many more fabulous days!

Happy Thanksgiving to all American wesleuthers! :turkey: :turkey: :turkey:

 

[dexter75]

The vial was a chess match for sure.

From the little research that I did, there was one other lab that had done testing with EDTA, other than the FBI, and what I read, the courts rejected reliability and the Doc that performed the test. So as a defense attorney, I don't know where they could go and get the test done by an "outside" source and have confidence in both the test and that it would be admissible?

Here is a link with some very basic information about another court case and the EDTA testing: http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/ev...verymaking-a-murderercase-a-lot-has-been.html

When I was looking to see if it was ever peer reviewed I had come across a motion from the State and it had said that they needed to find out more info, like who drew the blood, how much blood was drawn in the vial, chain of custody, etc. Arggggh I wish someone had answered the "how much blood was drawn" question!!!! That one has been in the back of my head for months! Along with.... was there other blood? And if there was other blood, was it preserved with something other than EDTA? I guess someone needs to ask Steve where it is [emoji3]

Ask Steve..😁😁

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[dexter75]

.
Well, at least she stayed awake long enough to type all that...:loveyou: Dex!

So, let me ask a question because ya know...I'm an accountant...LOL

Do killers usually leave the bodies on their properties or do they separate themselves from the crime and crime scene? Asking because I just don't know the answer.

As far as the blood testing....it was a Chess match between the defense and the prosecution...no one was going to show their cards before they had too.

I did! Woke up nearly every hour on the hour last night so who knows what tonight will bring..hopefully sleep😉
As far as killers n bodies..I've seen both ways. Some have their " dumping spot " or disposal sight not on their property, while others ( TK in NC ) bury remains on their property, in their back yard and such.

Love you too girl❤
Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Hubby took today off to help me get things in order for 20 plus family members tomorrow😉 Family, food, and FOOTBALL!
THANKFUL FOR ALL THREE!
as well as the opportunity to be a member here of course!
Yep, thankful for Websleuths!❤

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[MyTinkieGirl]

Nooooo
A new poster came on with " what if "
As per the usual folks chime in with opinions..
You stated you don't care what the hub dub defense has to say..or along those lines. ( watching the Lion's game and don't care to go back)
My point is/was..this is his DEFENSE TWEET THREAD..which you have no problem commenting.
My point is it seems IMO there's no problem insulting/questioning Zellner or her logic,
just don't give explanations or scenarios..facts if you will, that actually show she's doing exactly what she knows she should be to defend her client.
Because, well, you don't care to hear it..

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First off, I'm not a "new" poster. Second, the name of this thread is titled "Zellner Tweets". Not "post ONLY if you agree with Zellner's tweets". Third, didn't know only certain people can post in this thread. If you took my post as an insult, well....
There DOES exist, in ALL cases discussed on WS (unless I'm mistaken), hypothetical questions, and dare I say, differing opinions. The posts aren't all facts. It's called a question regarding a "what IF" scenario. A "what if" regarding what Zellner would tweet. Plain and simple. If that's not an acceptable post for you, then, oh well, suck it up butter cup...roll and scroll...OR, use the ignore function for people, like me, who don't happen to subscribe to your POV.

 

[dexter75]

Omg..I ment new to the thread. No disrespect there... Geeze
What in the world are you even talking about??
Who was talking to YOU saying " don't post here..or saying anything like that?"
Why take a response to someone else SO personal when it wasn't intended to be personal at all?
Thanks for your input though😉 and happy sleuthing!

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[missy1974]

so back to the thread topic lol



testing is going to start!

 

[missy1974]

and a retweet of John Ferak's tweet linking his article.

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...scientific-testing-begin-avery-case/94353426/

These critical items of evidence will undergo testing as part of this week’s court order:

Blood flakes recovered from the floor near the center console of Halbach’s RAV4.

Bloodstain cutting from the driver’s seat.

Bloodstain cutting from passenger’s seat.

Swab of the RAV 4 ignition area where blood was found.

Swab of bloodstain taken from the rear passenger’s door.

Swab of bloodstain taken from a CD case found in vehicle.

Also:

The vial of blood.

The spare key found in SA's bedroom. (interesting it was described as spare key, not sure if that is John's wording or not)

The swab from the hood latch.

 

[dexter75]

View attachment 105057

and a retweet of John Ferak's tweet linking his article.

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...scientific-testing-begin-avery-case/94353426/

These critical items of evidence will undergo testing as part of this week’s court order:

Blood flakes recovered from the floor near the center console of Halbach’s RAV4.

Bloodstain cutting from the driver’s seat.

Bloodstain cutting from passenger’s seat.

Swab of the RAV 4 ignition area where blood was found.

Swab of bloodstain taken from the rear passenger’s door.

Swab of bloodstain taken from a CD case found in vehicle.

Also:

The vial of blood.

The spare key found in SA's bedroom. (interesting it was described as spare key, not sure if that is John's wording or not)

The swab from the hood latch.

This is fantastic!!
Thank you for posting this!😉

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