Zodiac Killer

[morf13]

Wanted to hear from people on their opinions regarding the Zodiac killer case,as far as theories,suspects,etc. Put this in the cold case thread,since after 40 years,there have been no arrests.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I will comment here at length as time permits, but I want to make two quick comments about recent developments:

*Jack Tarrance: promoted by his stepson Dennis Kaufman and a completely incompetent CBS13 TV in Sacramento. Absolutely NOT the Zodiac.

*Guy Ward Hendrickson: promoted by his stepdaughter Deborah Perez and a completely incompetent local media in San Francisco. Even less chance of being Zodiac than Tarrance.

It used to that people with "daddy issues" would merely spend a fortune with a shrink - now they accuse their poppa of being Zodiac and a slew of news- will gladly stroke their egos by providing them their fifteen minutes of fame.

 

[Mr. E]

Dr. D, I never thought Perez had a leg to stand on, either. Her story always seemed nutty.

But what about Tarrance? He's got the black hood and the photos. I know a lot of people find him suspicious, but on what grounds? I haven't kept up with his story...just what I've read in news reports. Doesn't he also have a bloody knife?

 

[morf13]

Dr. D, I never thought Perez had a leg to stand on, either. Her story always seemed nutty.

But what about Tarrance? He's got the black hood and the photos. I know a lot of people find him suspicious, but on what grounds? I haven't kept up with his story...just what I've read in news reports. Doesn't he also have a bloody knife?

There is no evidence that the stuff that Tarrance's stepson,Dennis, has produced "claiming" to be Jack's stuff,is really Jack's. Alot of people believe that this is all a ploy to make $$$ for Dennis Kauffman. Besides looking similar to one of the Zodiac sketches,Jack seems to be in no way Zodiac,there is no evidence to support it.


And as far as Deb. Perez,...wow...not sure if she just wants 15 minutes of fame,or to make some $$$,but definately no shot of her story being true

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Kaufman has a long history of trying to convince anybody and everybody that Tarrance was Zodiac dating back to around 2000. At one point, he claimed to have the bloody shirt of cabbie Paul Stine and offered to sell it to Tom Voigt for $50,000. To be fair to Dennis, this "offer" may have been just hyperbole designed to be farcical, but it is telling that Dennis later "found" another article of clothing (the hood) to "verify" his claims. Of course, the hood that DK found does not match Brian Hartnell's description (neither does the knife that Dennis also claims to have found).

The pictures that Dennis claims are of Zodijack's victims are patently ridiculous. The only one that may actually show a murder seems to have a tattooed dead man in the process of doing a pushup and supporting his weight by his outstretched arms. The other pictures either show unidentifiable blobs (one of which, one of Kaufman's experts claims is Rose Cole in the process of being mutilated - a name that should ring a bell for most here at WS) or seeming innocent pictures of a young boy and one of a hat (A HAT!!! That REALLY convinces me that JT was Zodiac! :doh

Dennis is a huckster trying to gain a combination of fame and fortune. When he found the hood, he first called his business partner before calling the police. He has a quickie DVD for sale (now discounted to $9.99 because no one was willing to buy at retail prices). Earlier, he had been selling a book about his theories, except no one beyond his inner circle ever saw the book and Dennis evidently never refunded the money that his gullible "customers" spent on pre-orders.

 

[morf13]

I think it is truly disturbing how people can accuse loved ones of such heinous crimes,when they know full well its false.

 

[JCM]

Over the past few years I have become severely obsessed with this case. Needless to say, little tidbits like the following pique my interest:

Voigt's best suspect is Richard Joseph Gaikowski, who died in 2004. He was in his 30s during the confirmed Zodiac killings.

You'll like this: Gaikowski was a newspaperman, editing a Bay Area underground sheet called "Good Times."

A tipster alerted Voigt to him, and Voigt liked what he saw. The term 'good times" is used in some of the letters Zodiac wrote to papers. He actually worked at the Vallejo paper at the time it was the recipient of Zodiac mail. Gaikowski looks like the composite sketch of Zodiac.

Voigt got a recording of Gaikowski's voice and played it for the police dispatcher Zodiac talked to. She told Voigt, "That's the voice."

You can read more about him on the Web site, but suffice to say, the real test will be whether Gaikowski's DNA is a match for the DNA that's been extracted from an envelop or stamp the Zodiac licked before he sent his letters to newspapers. A Virginia lab is testing it.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/zodiac-voigt-perez-2432402-gaikowski-claim

This was news to me, I know that Voigt has really focused on Gaikowski as the main suspect in this case for some time but I had no idea that it had gotten this far. I really wonder if that Virginia lab isn't an FBI lab testing Gaik's DNA against the extracted DNA from the letters.

There may be, finally, an end to all of this after all on the horizon, here's to hoping!

:clap:

 

[morf13]

Regarding Gykekowski or GYKE as some people call him,some people on his forum poined out flaws in making the case for GYKE being Zodiac. Those that did not agree,and pointed out flaws,or things that didnt add up to GYKE being Zodiac,had their posts edited,and their memberships banned(i know this personally from my own experience)If you speak your own mind on that forum,and disagree with Tom's ideas,you make enemies with him quickly,and run the risk of being banned.Censorship at its best(or worst)The guy has a great site,and has done some great research,but his people skills are lacking,as well as his open mind towards Zodiac. Dont wanna get off topic,or on a rant,so i will just say with all the "compelling" evidence against Gyke,where is all the police investigation on him? Why isnt it ongoing? Even Kauffman seems to have peeked more of an interest from the police.

 

[morf13]

Zobsessed,great to see another Zodiac "obsessed" person on here. I am as well. Spend alot of time chasing clues,thru old newspapers, online articles ,etc,and unfortunately,alot of dead ends.But i have had the great pleasure of talking to some really great and well known Zodiac researchers,and even a detective that has worked on the Zodiac case. I have dug up some pretty interesting stuff here and there.Wouldnt mind sharing with you.Drop me a line.

 

[morf13]

Judy Lichti Murdered- Zodiac Connection?
Juddy Lichti was murdered on July 4th,1969 at aprox. 11-11:30 PM. She was shot when a car pulled up along side her car and opened fire,also wounding her husband.There was no motive in the attack,and 40 years later,the case is unsolved.

How is this related to the Zodiac killer? It may not be,BUT,it's VERY similar to the confirmed Zodiac attack of Darlene Ferrin,and Mike Mageau,who were attacked aprox. 30-45 minutes later. The only problem is that Lichti was attacked in the Fresno/Barton,Calif. area,and Mageau/Ferrin were attacked 30-45 minutes later in Vallejo. These two towns are 2-3 hours apart,so theres no way that the same person pulled the trigger at both crime scenes,BUT,when i posted this on another forum,a person that believes that Zodiac was not a single man,but rather a team,pointed out that as a Zodiac team,they could have committed both murders,in 2 different areas. I am not personally into the idea that there was a Zodiac "team",but anything is possible i guess,and it actually could explain the differences of appearance in the zodiac sketches.

Still,Zodiac victim or not,the murder of Lichti needs to be solved.After 40 years,her family deserves answers. Heres a news article on her story:

Independent Press-Telegram July 6,1969
Bullets Shot in 'Senseless' Car Attack Kill Wife, 29
FRESNO </Pt &#8212; A
young Fresno mother was
shot to death Friday night
as she and her husband
and small son drove home
from a Fourth of July
show at a speedway.
The sheriff's department
said Mrs. Judy Lichti,
29, was killed, apparently
without provocation
by shots fired from a car
which pulled alongside
their car about 11:15 p.m.
Mrs. Lichti. who was
driving, was hit in the
head. She died later in a
hospital. Her husband,
John, 29, who managed to
steer the car to a slop,
was treated for a gunshot

 

[morf13]

Trying to get this thread off the ground,so here goes...Gonna try to add some more possible victims/cases that may be attributed to the Zodiac.

Murdered Woman Is Identified 4-25-67
CARSON CITY, Nev. (UPI)-The body of a woman found in
the hills one week ago has been identified as Anna J. Anderson,
48, of Oakland, Calif., a nurse at the Richmond, Calif., General
Hospital. Sheriff Robert Humphrey said the case was definitely
a homicide.
She worked in Calif. as a nurse,like Donna Lass,who many people think was a Zodiac victim.

 

[JCM]

Dont wanna get off topic,or on a rant,so i will just say with all the "compelling" evidence against Gyke,where is all the police investigation on him? Why isnt it ongoing? Even Kauffman seems to have peeked more of an interest from the police.

Which is scary. Because I don't believe that Tarrance was in any way Zodiac. It's so sad, in a way, that his step son wants him to be... Don't get me started on Deborah Perez.

I think with Gaikowski, it's possible. I'm anxiously awaiting these DNA results. Voigt responded to me over on his forum (when I started a thread about the OC story from May 28th) and he said he didn't want to make a big thing out of the testing, which I completely understand. Some of the links for Gyke are interesting and the fact that the FBI did look at him, even if briefly, makes him more compelling. However, the fact that he lived in San Francisco lead's me to believe it wasn't him... which lead's me to my next topic....

 

[JCM]

First, let me firmly state up front that I am a novice on Z. I know what I know, but that's all I know. I got into this case after the Cold Case Files episode aired some years ago and after Fincher's film (which I consider to be a masterpiece) came out, I was hooked. I then read Graysmith's book which I subsequently have found to be not very well respected amongst the Z sleuths. I actually like that book quite a bit and gleaned many of my opinions about this case from it.

On the topic of that book, I do not believe ALA was Z, nor do I believe he was invovled in any way. I do think he liked the attention he got from this case though and he enjoyed screwing with the police. A better candidate from Graysmith's book is "Andrew Walker". Although, as I understand it, he had a thick northeastern accent which Nancy Slove (and others) could attest to Z not having.

The most frustrating thing about this case is that everyone (web admin, filmmaker, writer, et al) has a suspect. This tends to cause splintered opinions and ideas. The kind of thing that has consistently kept this case from being solved. There were a number of great detectives on this case, Toschi, Armstrong, Narlow.. and they all had their notable suspects.

Arthur Leigh Allen - DNA didn't match, finger print doesn't match, handwriting doesn't match, case closed on ALA.

Rick Marshall - SFPD officially ruled him out as a suspect, prior to his death, last fall. This according to Tom Voigt. Case closed on him, too.

Okay, with those two out of the way that leaves about 4,498 more.

Having fast forwarded to this point in the discussion, ruling out those two. I would like to hear your opinion morf13. I'm always very interested in hearing theories and opinions. I do have some questions for you, if you don't mind humoring me...

1) What do you think of Gareth Penn as a suspect?
2) How about: Lawrence Kane, Mr. X (who's name I recently found!), Robert Hansen, David Carpenter?
3) Do you there was more than one person involved in the killings?
4) Do you think Z killed Cheri Jo Bates?
5) Do you think Z actually killed 37 (or more than the 5 confirmed)?

I'll start with those questions... I have others. I have just recently read Michael D. Kelleher's book "This is the Zodiac Speaking" and I consider it to be a headier read than YB. I also tend to agree with many of the opinions in the book, not all, but many. There's also a great supplementary video to the 2-disc Director's Cut of Fincher's film on the Zodiac Movie website. I recently discovered that as well. The Behavioral Profiling snippet with Sharon Hagan has really helped me form my opinions (along with Kelleher's book).

Look forward to hearing from you.

 

[miles_draken]

It seems to me that many of those obsessed with the Zodiac case don't really want it to be solved. They crucify anyone who seems to come forward with a suspect, or perhaps it is just that every expert has their own favorite suspect.

Almost everything I read from Zodiac community discounts Robert Graysmiths theory about ALA, even though he seems to have a lot of circumstantial evidence.

Most people don't believe Perez.

Most think Dennis Kauffman is after money and has no evidence.

At least the authorities seem to put enough stock in the theories to check them out.

I think the Zodiac case is just a web of dead ends and false hopes. Everyones favorite suspect has that one compelling thing that seems to keep them from being the guy. Somewhere out there is a perfect fit, the real Zodiac killer, but it may be someone nobody suspected.

I don't go for the "team" theory, ever try to get a group of people to keep a secret??

Tom Voight does have an interesting site, but I lost respect for him when he was offering BTK some pictures of people he'd killed. I'm sure it was a hoax, but it wasn't in very good taste.

And regarding Voights favorite Gradowski or however it's spelled, much of this is based on the dispatcher remembering his voice after nearly four decades?? Seems like a stretch.

I hope it's solved. I think every suspect needs to be looked at. Instead of the quick discount of all these people coming forward with wild claims, prove with facts that it wasn't them. It appears that in the Zodiac community suspects are considered fraudulent until proven guilty.

 

[JCM]

It seems to me that many of those obsessed with the Zodiac case don't really want it to be solved. They crucify anyone who seems to come forward with a suspect, or perhaps it is just that every expert has their own favorite suspect.

It sure does seem that way, doesn't it? There needs to be an end to this though. Like with most great true crime shows (Cold Case Files, American Justice, et al) there is closure. This is just one of those cases that seems to have no resolution. That itself lends itself to the obsessed (me) and the opportunists (you know them). It's also dissimilar to the cases featured nightly on cable news. Those are typically single murders of local interest that are boosted to the national level because yenta's like to watch that crap. It's the kind of case that requires a lot of patience, not conducive to a 15 minute segment.

Almost everything I read from Zodiac community discounts Robert Graysmiths theory about ALA, even though he seems to have a lot of circumstantial evidence.

I agree. I like Graysmith, quite a bit actually. ALA seems to be the perfect fit except for the fact that his DNA doesn't match the profile from the stamp(s), fingerprint doesn't match..nor does the handwriting. It's at that point that you have to let go of that suspect as viable, IMO.

I don't go for the "team" theory, ever try to get a group of people to keep a secret??

Agreed. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist. In order for conspiracies to work it means multiple parties must keep secrets. And, as you said.. the quickest way for something to not be a secret is to tell someone else. I don't think Z ever told a soul...

I hope it's solved. I think every suspect needs to be looked at. Instead of the quick discount of all these people coming forward with wild claims, prove with facts that it wasn't them. It appears that in the Zodiac community suspects are considered fraudulent until proven guilty.

There are camps. As an outsider looking in..it's a bit odd. If the end goal is the same then there should be cooperation and bridge building. Not derision and fence building. I've kind of gone down every road on this case since I've been interested in it. I tend to stop at the point where the suspect is proven to not be Z. With ALA (DNA) with Rick Marshall (police dismiss him) and on and on... Once the physical evidence says "no" then you have to start over, IMO.

 

[morf13]

First, let me firmly state up front that I am a novice on Z. I know what I know, but that's all I know. I got into this case after the Cold Case Files episode aired some years ago and after Fincher's film (which I consider to be a masterpiece) came out, I was hooked. I then read Graysmith's book which I subsequently have found to be not very well respected amongst the Z sleuths. I actually like that book quite a bit and gleaned many of my opinions about this case from it.

On the topic of that book, I do not believe ALA was Z, nor do I believe he was invovled in any way. I do think he liked the attention he got from this case though and he enjoyed screwing with the police. A better candidate from Graysmith's book is "Andrew Walker". Although, as I understand it, he had a thick northeastern accent which Nancy Slove (and others) could attest to Z not having.

The most frustrating thing about this case is that everyone (web admin, filmmaker, writer, et al) has a suspect. This tends to cause splintered opinions and ideas. The kind of thing that has consistently kept this case from being solved. There were a number of great detectives on this case, Toschi, Armstrong, Narlow.. and they all had their notable suspects.

Arthur Leigh Allen - DNA didn't match, finger print doesn't match, handwriting doesn't match, case closed on ALA.

Rick Marshall - SFPD officially ruled him out as a suspect, prior to his death, last fall. This according to Tom Voigt. Case closed on him, too.

Okay, with those two out of the way that leaves about 4,498 more.

Having fast forwarded to this point in the discussion, ruling out those two. I would like to hear your opinion morf13. I'm always very interested in hearing theories and opinions. I do have some questions for you, if you don't mind humoring me...

1) What do you think of Gareth Penn as a suspect?
2) How about: Lawrence Kane, Mr. X (who's name I recently found!), Robert Hansen, David Carpenter?
3) Do you there was more than one person involved in the killings?
4) Do you think Z killed Cheri Jo Bates?
5) Do you think Z actually killed 37 (or more than the 5 confirmed)?

I'll start with those questions... I have others. I have just recently read Michael D. Kelleher's book "This is the Zodiac Speaking" and I consider it to be a headier read than YB. I also tend to agree with many of the opinions in the book, not all, but many. There's also a great supplementary video to the 2-disc Director's Cut of Fincher's film on the Zodiac Movie website. I recently discovered that as well. The Behavioral Profiling snippet with Sharon Hagan has really helped me form my opinions (along with Kelleher's book).

Look forward to hearing from you.

To Zobsessed,my new,fellow Zodiac Obsessed friend, I share some of the same thoughts as you.I am no expert on the case,and believe that there is still alot to learn,so i enjoy when i am able to talk with some of the great researchers and investigators regarding the case.I have read about the case for a long time,watched the documentaries,and loved the movie Zodiac,and dont understand why it wasnt honored with any Oscar nominations. The movie IS basically based on Robert Greysmith's book. There is quite a backlash against Greysmith from the Zodiac sleuth community. Some things were changed,added,etc by the author(according to these people that dont support him) I dont know if he flat out lied,or as an inexperienced investigative writer,made errors,didnt fully checkout witness reports,etc. I think he got caught up in the thought that ALA was Zodiac,and when you lose your objectivity as a writer,you taint your own writing from thereon out. I would strongly recommend that anyone that wants to find the true facts on this case visit Michael Butterfield's site, www.zodiackillerfacts.com Michael is well known in the Zodiac community,and has participated in many documentaries on the case.He has a bunch of videos on youtube that are invaluable and show the discrepancies on the books by Greysmith.(just go to youtube and search the name MICHAEL BUTTERFIELD and you will find his great videos)

Anyone who thinks ALA was Zodiac is entitled to their own opinion,but, there is NO EVIDENCE that supports this.

Regarding Cheri Jo Bates,i started a thread about her here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84644"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84644[/ame]
You will see that i posted about a girl in a red dress was found dead(the writer of the desktop poem found in the RCC storage,mentioned a girl in a RED dress) I think its interesting and possible that Zodiac killed her,and the letters written were certainly similar,BUT,there is no direct evidence of Zodiac killing her,and he only took credit for it AFTER the news broke that Bates was a possile Z victim.

Gareth Penn-I will start by saying that i do not want to insinuate that Penn was Zodiac,nor do i want to soil his reputation,but here are some "coincidences" i discovered about Penn(sorry for the great length of this post):
Penn was a fan of writing to editors(like Zodiac)and getting his point across. In 1994,Penn wrote to Time magazine about a new production of "The Mikado" in which the reviewer mistakenly attributed the lyrics to Sullivan and the music to Gilbert.

He wrote "Let's see, now. Sullivan wrote the words, and Gilbert wrote the music. Holmes is the doctor, and Watson the detective. Harpo had the cigar, and Groucho tooted the auto horn. Thanks for setting the record straight.
Gareth Penn San Rafael, California "
As you probably know,Zodiac was a big fan of the Mikado and Gilbert & Sullivan and even used their work in his letters.
Penn also wrote a series of letters to a magazine/writers club, called "The Ecphorizer" One of the letters was called

"Gone With The 25¢ Potroast"​

Here's an excerpt-&#8220;One day last winter, I was in a quiet neighborhood of Vallejo near Interstate 80. About 500 feet west of the freeway there was a little park, about a half&#8221;
(This ties Penn to Vallejo where some of the attacks happened)​

Another letter was called
"Where Were You?"
Here's an excerpt- "Frank Jr. was FIDDLING with a battery-powered radio to find out what was going on.&#8221;​

ZODIAC said in a letter &#8220;the longer they FIDDLE and fart around the more slaves I will collect for my afterlife" ​

Another letter was called​

​

​

"Creative Reading"
Heres an excerpt-"One of the oldest means of creating a trademark is to encode a message in it by writing it backwards. Those over 35 may remember Serutan, the natural laxative for those over 35. As you can readily see, the trademark is "Nature's" spelled backwards. Just so you don't think this is over-interpretation on my part, let me point out that the Serutan commercials used to bring out that fact a dozen times every day over the nation's airwaves.&#8221;​

This shows that Penn definately had knowledge of Codes/ciphers​

Another paper was called
"Thirty-Eight"
Here are some excerpts-&#8220;His passenger was fumbling inside his jacket as if for his wallet.&#8221;
&#8220;The SFPD officers left the spot with tires screeching&#8221;
&#8220;In response to this letter, the SFPD held a press conference in which the Zodiac's story about the encounter with the two police officers was stoutly denied. To this day, the SFPD has never admitted that the Zodiac was telling the truth. They were lying.&#8221;​

&#8220;Late in June, 1970, the Zodiac sent the Chronicle a letter in which, among other things, he claimed to have "shot a man sitting in a parked car with a 38." The police gave out that they had searched the records of every law-enforcement agency west of the Rockies without turning up a shooting victim who fit the description. The Zodiac's claim was dismissed as an idle boast. They were lying again. There was a recent shooting victim who had been shot with a .38 in a parked car, and his car had been parked in San Francisco at the time: Paul Stine. SFPD ballistics experts had typed the murder weapon as a .38-caliber revolver, but it was identified for public consumption as a 9mm automatic in order to fabricate one of those shared secrets that the police reason will enable them to separate the real criminal from compulsive confessors.&#8221;
&#8220;For similar reasons, the authorities hushed up the facts about the trip book even though the Zodiac's version, Maple and Washington, had been published in the Chronicle for all to see&#8221;​

Here's my take on the above excerpts, "His passenger was fumbling inside his jacket as if for his wallet.&#8221; (talking about the Paul Stine murder) How does Penn know this? Either he is just writing creatively,or he was there.​

" They were lying" / "They were lying again"
Sounds like Penn taking the police lying a little too seriously,awfully defensive,huh?​

"for all to see" The writer of the Cheri Jo Bates "confession" letter from 11/29/66 said "THIS LETTER SHOULD BE PUBLISHED FOR ALL TO READ IT"​

Of course these letters/writings are circumstancial. But so is the following: (some is borrowed from another site)​

Police profilers considered the Zodiac killer an "extremely shrewd, methodical planner" who would have had knowledge of cryptography, guns, map reading, meteorology, astronomy, drafting, and a probable military background. [32] ​

Self described as the son of an Army cryptographer and former employee of the California Attorney General&#8217;s office, Penn has written that he had a "checkered career" as a &#8220;medievalist, artillery surveyor, free lance writer, economic researcher, reference librarian, and receptionist in a robot factory.&#8221; [33] ​

In Times 17 Penn writes that he received artillery training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma during the mid-1960's. A U.S. Army artillery surveyor performs astronomical observations; measures azimuths, grid coordinates, and angles on maps; and operates/maintains vehicles, radios, weapons, and other survey equipment in support of artillery operations. [34] ​

Amateur investigators have noted that in Times 17, Penn audaciouly lays out a scenario whereby, as duty person in charge of daily roll call, he could have falsified an entry and left Fort Sill in October, 1966, taken a military hop to March AFB, and killed Cheri Jo Bates in nearby Riverside. [35] [36] ​

Based on his dates of service, Penn would have served during the Vietnam War.[37]
Writing style
A prolific letter-to-the-editor writer, Zodiac used British phrasing that incorporated numerous references to theatrical, literary, or linguistic works. ​

Recurring Zodiac themes included Gilbert and Sullivan&#8217;s Mikado; Old Norse limericks and poetry; epigrams, acrostics, and cryptograms; and high-handed word play intended to baffle and belittle the authorities. ​

Gareth Penn&#8217;s proclivity toward astute, officious, and often biting letters to the editors of the world&#8217;s top intellectual periodicals -- such as Scientific American, Nature, The Economist, and at least 15 letters over the years to National Public Radio -- has tantalized amateur sleuths as another similarity between Penn and Zodiac ​

In an Ecphorizer article entitled Lima Riki, Penn notes that "in a previous incarnation," he used to write limericks "in Old Norse." A Zodiac letter mentions Old Norse writing, an issue Penn subsequently addressed​

Another big COINCIDENCE i found was that Penn retired from the Marine fishery Svcs Library. I found a biologist named DR ROBERT EMMETT who also worked for the Marine fisheries svc,although i dont know if they knew each other,or worked together. Do you remember the name ROBERT EMMETT? Some people think that the name "Robert Emmett the hippie",was the solution at the bottom of the 1st Zodiac cipher,but many assume that the name ROBERT EMMETT was the name of a schoolmate of Arthur Leigh Allen,RobertEmmett Rodifer.Maybe,Maybe not?​

One last coincidence- Found this newspaper report(same one i mentioned in the thread about Cheri Jo Bates)
Headline from 12/19/66 Modesto Bee
"Woman's Body Is Found On Cliff
TIBURON (UPI)&#8212;The badly decomposed body of a woman
was found Sunday on a cliff by a young hunter. Authorities said
the body had lain in the underbrush for several months about 20
feet below Paradise Drive. An autopsy will be conducted to determine
cause of death. She was wearing a red dress.They found no Identification on the
body. Deputies said they have no report of a missing woman
matching the description of the body."​

This body was discovered VERY CLOSE,within 1-2 miles i believe,of where Penn worked as a librarian(although i cant say the body was found while he was working there)​

Penn's background,knowledge,reputation,etc makes him a "person of interest" to me,although once again i am not saying he is Zodiac or trying to ruin his name.As far as the site that has a huge report on Penn being Zodiac,and touches on all kinds of geometry,radions.etc,i got lost after reading it for 5 minutes(geometry & math are my worst subjects)​

As far as some of the people Lawrence kane,Mr.X(took me a long time to find his identity)Robert Hansen,Robert Hunter,and all the other suspects.Some things seem to fit and some things dont.But i do respect the researchers and investigators opinions about these people. There were a LOT of murders going on,of all types in Calif. in the 60's,so even if some of these people are NOT zodiac,it doesnt mean they were not responsible for other attacks. That's what makes it hard to know how many people were really killed by Zodiac.​

RE: Tom Voight and his site- Kudos to a great site filled with lots of info,and great members there.His Zodiac research is awesome,BUT,his people skills are terrible(just my opinion,and one shared by countless others banned from his site for not agreeing with his every word as if he's GOD) If you have a difference of opinion with him,or have other ideas,you will see your posts edited,and your membership cancelled.One of the big mistakes i made was to criticise his big suspect GYKE(i and a few others mentioned something to him that seemed to make GYKE not plausible as Zodiac)(I do think it's neat how the word GYKE appears clear as day in the original cipher).I wont show you the nasty emails he sent me.It's funny, i think i get along with just about anybody,and respect people's opinions,even if i dont happen to share them,but...whatever​

Anyway,I am really happy to be here with like minded people and hope to learn alot,and hear some opinions and ideas.​

 

[morf13]

It seems to me that many of those obsessed with the Zodiac case don't really want it to be solved. They crucify anyone who seems to come forward with a suspect, or perhaps it is just that every expert has their own favorite suspect.

Almost everything I read from Zodiac community discounts Robert Graysmiths theory about ALA, even though he seems to have a lot of circumstantial evidence.

Most people don't believe Perez.

Most think Dennis Kauffman is after money and has no evidence.

At least the authorities seem to put enough stock in the theories to check them out.

I think the Zodiac case is just a web of dead ends and false hopes. Everyones favorite suspect has that one compelling thing that seems to keep them from being the guy. Somewhere out there is a perfect fit, the real Zodiac killer, but it may be someone nobody suspected.

I don't go for the "team" theory, ever try to get a group of people to keep a secret??

Tom Voight does have an interesting site, but I lost respect for him when he was offering BTK some pictures of people he'd killed. I'm sure it was a hoax, but it wasn't in very good taste.

And regarding Voights favorite Gradowski or however it's spelled, much of this is based on the dispatcher remembering his voice after nearly four decades?? Seems like a stretch.

I hope it's solved. I think every suspect needs to be looked at. Instead of the quick discount of all these people coming forward with wild claims, prove with facts that it wasn't them. It appears that in the Zodiac community suspects are considered fraudulent until proven guilty.

Gotta agree,i think alot of Zodiac obsessed people will be really bored if the identity of Zodiac is revealed(myself included) But he is a criminal and if he's not dead,deserves to be punished to give the families of his victims closure.

There are so many differing thoughts,opinions,points of view,etc,on the Zodiac case,and that's why people sometimes argue or do not take other people seriously.I think EVERYBODY's thoughts and ideas are important tools,and i love hearing what everyone has to say on the subject. The more people work together and share info,the more likely it is that the case will get solved! Afterall,it's been 40 years,ad no arrests,so maybe we should all start from scratch and look at new and fresh ideas and suspects,afterall, we dont have all the answers,and there have been no arrests,so perhaps Zodiac was someone who's name was never even mentioned.

 

[justthinkin]

Hi, just dropped in, and gotta question maybe someone can answer. I googled for images of RJ Gaikowski, and found a picture of him on a book. I clicked on the book image which led me to a page that flashes 2 facial sketches of the Zodiac. Have any idea when the two suspect sketches were done?

The reason I'm asking is if Gaikowski would be the right age for those two images of a suspect who looks to be 45-50 yrs. old or would Gaikowski have been a little bit too young?

Thanks!

 

[morf13]

Hi, just dropped in, and gotta question maybe someone can answer. I googled for images of RJ Gaikowski, and found a picture of him on a book. I clicked on the book image which led me to a page that flashes 2 facial sketches of the Zodiac. Have any idea when the two suspect sketches were done?

The reason I'm asking is if Gaikowski would be the right age for those two images of a suspect who looks to be 45-50 yrs. old or would Gaikowski have been a little bit too young?

Thanks!

Born 3/14/36 so he would have been aprox. 33 at the time of the murders.I personally dont think Gyke was Zodiac. The sketches are based on sightings by kids that saw the Stine murder happen,and by the police who gave their account of the man they saw walking.They said that the person in the sketch appeared between 35 & 45 years old if i remember correctly

 

[morf13]

Just updated the possible Zodiac victim,Cheri Jo Bates thread here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3817885#post3817885"]Cheri Jo Bates...Zodiac Victim or not? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]