General Discussion Thread #5

[Mountain Misst]

Is South Africa's legal system reliable?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-21535387

Hi Estelle :loveyou: Long time no see, but I'm back poking around the entrails in time for the trial.

 

[jilly]

This will be interesting. I have read several statements about what she was wearing and have seen no confirmation of any of them.

When the story first broke, the first day or so, it was stated that she was in her night gown. The next I read was that she was wearing her own shorts and top. Just recently I read in a recent link (sorry I don't remember which one) that she was wearing Oscar's shorts and tee shirt!

The one that has been most believable to me was that she was in her own shorts and tank top, the same one she was wearing in the video when she was going through the gates to OP's house. If she was wearing this, it most certainly shows that she never was in bed, and shows that OP likely knew exactly where she was.

Do you have a link with respect to this statement? The only link I can find about that video going into Oscar's complex says that she was driving her silver mini and bantered with the security guard. There's no mention of what she was wearing.

http://www.globalnewsdesk.co.uk/africa/reeva-steenkamp-video-oscar-pistorius-case/03459/

 

[Interested Bystander]

Do you have a link with respect to this statement? The only link I can find about that video going into Oscar's complex says that she was driving her silver mini and bantered with the security guard. There's no mention of what she was wearing.

http://www.globalnewsdesk.co.uk/africa/reeva-steenkamp-video-oscar-pistorius-case/03459/

The photos of her arriving at the complex show her to be wearing a black top with narrow straps. You can see the photos here:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-Valentines-Day-arrives-Pistoriuss-home.html

I haven't read what she was wearing on her lower half.

 

[jilly]

The photos of her arriving at the complex show her to be wearing a black top with narrow straps. You can see the photos here:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-Valentines-Day-arrives-Pistoriuss-home.html

I haven't read what she was wearing on her lower half.

Excellent find. Thank you. That, at least, gives us half the info!

 

[Interested Bystander]

Here is a report that she was wearing OP's shorts and T shirt. This particular newspaper is not known as being very reliable with its reporting.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...trial-ballistics-expert-3168104#ixzz2ukbWSDHt

"It was also reported the documents say Reeva was stood up and wearing a pair of Pistorius' shorts and one of his T-shirts when she was shot, rather than cowering half-naked."

 

[Interested Bystander]

Here is a similar report that Reeva was wearing OP’s clothes, so perhaps I am doing the Mirror an injustice in accusing it of being known for its shoddy reporting

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news...torius-murder-case-story-so-far#ixzz2ukgQki37

“According to the leaked prosecution documents, Steenkamp was standing and facing the door when she was shot and was believed to have been wearing a pair of Pistorius's shorts and one of his t-shirts.”

 

[kittychi]

Here is a similar report that Reeva was wearing OP’s clothes, so perhaps I am doing the Mirror an injustice in accusing it of being known for its shoddy reporting

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news...torius-murder-case-story-so-far#ixzz2ukgQki37

“According to the leaked prosecution documents, Steenkamp was standing and facing the door when she was shot and was believed to have been wearing a pair of Pistorius's shorts and one of his t-shirts.”

Seems it would help the defense, not the prosecution, if she was wearing Oscar's tee and shorts since they could have been her bedclothes that night. IOW, they HAD gone to bed.

 

[jilly]

Here is an early report stating she was wearing a nightgown.

http://www.examiner.com/article/did...steenkamp-under-the-influence-of-steroid-rage

Here is where it is reported that Botha testified she was wearing white shorts and a black top:

http://metro.co.uk/2013/02/20/oscar-pistorius-returns-to-court-as-bail-battle-intensifies-3505005/

So we have 3 different reports, but no confirmation. I tend to believe Botha's testimony.

Thank you very much for these links. One would think that Botha should be right about the clothing which I guess can be confirmed at least by the Coroner.

 

[jilly]

I am not sure I have read this before but for me the article does not load/scroll easily and I may well have given up. Also I cannot cut and paste anything from the piece so I have retyped the sentence where a Medic who was on the scene stated what Reeva had been wearing at the time of her death.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/187254618...torius-and-Reeva-Steenkamp-Part-I-The-Killing

“However, what Reeva had been wearing when she was gunned down is not clear. The Medic interviewed by the Week-end Argus, who had arrived at the scene before Botha, said that Steenkemp had been wearing “a black sweat top and long pants but no shoes”.

This sounds as though she may have been in a sweat shirt and jogging bottoms at the time of her death.

No doubt all will become clear very soon.

Yeah....well that certainly throws a wrench into it. I think for now I'm going to go with the pros statement on Dateline who said her clothing was key -

"As Oscar Pistorius heads to trial for killing girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, South African prosecutors are saying the white shorts and black top the model had on when she was gunned down could determine whether the Olympic sprinter ends up in an orange prison uniform....."

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pi...lothes-are-key-evidence-pistorius-case-n39071

 

[Interested Bystander]

Lol. I agree that it is most likely that Botha gave the correct description.

 

[Mountain Misst]

So there's no chance that the clothing was changed post-mortem?

 

[jilly]

So there's no chance that the clothing was changed post-mortem?

Well.....you might have a point there. I read somewhere that Oscar called friends and they arrived before the authorities.

 

[Mountain Misst]

I reckon a lot of things happened in that... what was it, an hour? Extraction of phone records will be mighty interesting not to mention CCTV in and out of the bldg.

 

[Estelle]

So there's no chance that the clothing was changed post-mortem?

My hunch is that RS was killed while wearing the clothes she arrived in as they would have the bullet holes in them. Then after her death, OP removed them and put his own shorts and T-shirt on her and hid her clothes.

 

[Interested Bystander]

http://www.htxt.co.za/2013/11/06/pi...s-been-caught-out-by-the-transparency-report/

Pistorius cops v Apple v The Daily Mail: who’s been caught out by the transparency report?

 

[Interested Bystander]

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/06/world/africa/pistorius-image/

“The South African athlete's spectacular fall from grace shocked many who were inspired by his remarkable story of overcoming adversity to become an Olympian and a national hero
But not everyone.
"Here, I think, you had a troubled athlete," said South African sports journalist Graeme Joffe. "Not so much this incredible role model for the rest of the world -- no question about that -- but deep down, this was a troubled athlete."
Joffe is one of the few South African journalists who has been critical of Pistorius. He said the PR machine behind the man they call Blade Runner has all but made him untouchable.
"So many incidents have happened and they've been well documented over the last five or six years with Oscar Pistorius," said Joffe, who worked at CNN in the 1990s. "These kinds of cases have disappeared."
<modsnip>

 

[Interested Bystander]

I have read a number of times in recent weeks that a good number of people think OP is a narcissistic psychopath so I thought I should read a little about the condition.

I am not saying the following description is good but it does go some way to describe this combination of personality disorders and their differences.

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/10/psychopathy_antisocial_persona.html

 

[Estelle]

This video gives most of the history of this case. It was filmed in December 2013 in Labia Theatre in Cape Town

[video=youtube;t0EFUs9aOXQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0EFUs9aOXQ[/video]

 

[Estelle]

I have read a number of times in recent weeks that a good number of people think OP is a narcissistic psychopath so I thought I should read a little about the condition.

I am not saying the following description is good but it does go some way to describe this combination of personality disorders and their differences.

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/10/psychopathy_antisocial_persona.html

These are some of the symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance.
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
3. Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).
4. Requires excessive admiration [regularly fishes for compliments, and is highly susceptible to flattery].
5. Has a sense of entitlement.
6. Is interpersonally exploitative.
7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling [or, I would add, unable] to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
9. Shows arrogant, haughty [rude and abusive] behaviors or attitudes.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...311/6-signs-narcissism-you-may-not-know-about

Here are 10 signs you should look out for to quickly identify if you are dating a psychopath.

1. Flattery like you've never heard before. Psychopaths move extremely quickly. On the first date, he'll probably tell you that you are stunningly beautiful, unbelievably intelligent, and uproariously witty. He will play into every fantasy and insecurity you have.

2. He is just like you. Psychopaths will try to convince you that you are soul mates, just alike. He loves all the things you love and you have all of the same interests. He has no real identity, so he sucks yours up and mirrors it back to you.

3. Pity plays. Pay careful attention to what a psychopath says on the first few dates about his exes and other people in his life. Is his ex girlfriend crazy and stalking him? Whatever he says about the other people in his life is pretty much exactly what he'll be saying about you at some point, so listen carefully.
[modsnip]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/07/dating-a-psychopath_n_4378946.html

 

[Cherry]

OK since SkyNews has revealed they will be streaming live; can someone get together the weblinks to the live feeds? And then we can all keep track and get down our TimeZones in order to watch?
I did hear CNN/HLN will start coverage at noon EST...but that will be edited coverage I'm sure.
Other than Sky news, does anyone know if Whoopwhoop or somone other than Sky will have live unedited coverage?
Can someone help me post the links and the time zones?

For me EST, I believe at 1am my time tonight the trial will start live. I can't watch it live...but is anyone going to tape or attempt to? Please post and maybe can we get a sticky from our lovely Mods since the trial starts in less than 24 hours from now?

TIA very much; I will check back later. Only links I have are HLN.com; Skynews.com
and Possibly on WhoopWhoop or WildAboutTrials. We just need confirmed live links.

I'll check back after a long hot bath and will listen to above link thanks for all the pre trial links they have been really helpful!