Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #78

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And that is what strong leadership is about. Uniting a country, encouraging them to not waiver, imparting useful information - information that may change as more is learned, but ensuring that the change is understood.

I don't really understand the 'lack of credibility'. 200,000 deaths is quite sadly credible to me. That should spark big concern among common-sense people. No matter who is saying what.

IMO

Yep. Among common-sense people.
 
NYT: C.D.C. Testing Guidance Was Published Against Scientists’ Objections

There seems to be a lot of whistleblowing going on this week.

Inter-agency conflicts? Really what we don't need right now with 200,000 deaths and rising.

I was wondering about the conflicting reports and tone coming out of the CDC, now that is explained.

A heavily criticized recommendation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last month about who should be tested for the coronavirus was not written by C.D.C. scientists and was posted to the agency’s website despite their serious objections, according to several people familiar with the matter as well as internal documents obtained by The New York Times.
 
And that is what strong leadership is about. Uniting a country, encouraging them to not waiver, imparting useful information - information that may change as more is learned, but ensuring that the change is understood.

I don't really understand the 'lack of credibility'. 200,000 deaths is quite sadly credible to me. That should spark big concern among common-sense people. No matter who is saying what.

IMO

The problem is that once credibility was lost by leadership, people started looking for their own answers. There are a significant number of people in the U.S. that still don't trust the case and death numbers. It's a case of "fool me once..."

NY had "strong leadership," which has led to an exodus: Pandemic Exodus: Moving companies turn customers away as people leave Tri-State in record numbers
 
The problem is that once credibility was lost by leadership, people started looking for their own answers. There are a significant number of people in the U.S. that still don't trust the case and death numbers. It's a case of "fool me once..."

NY had "strong leadership," which has led to an exodus: Pandemic Exodus: Moving companies turn customers away as people leave Tri-State in record numbers

It is a shame that people cannot be a bit more flexible in their thinking.

For example, we were initially advised not to wear masks unless we, ourselves, were ill.
The guidance later changed in certain parts due to outbreaks.
I still have 5 re-usable masks sitting in my linen closet. Understanding that my state's mask guidance may change at some point.

And it is a shame that people perhaps limit themselves to just looking at the US, when 'looking for answers'.
The whole world is experiencing covid deaths. Far too many. People are fooling themselves if they believe the US is immune or barely touched. The death count there is enormous, and even if they halve it in their own minds, it is still enormous. IMO
 
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I don’t see “strong leadership” cited in the link as what has “led to” the Pandemic Exodus from NY. You seem to be drawing that conclusion but that’s your opinion. There are probably as many reasons as there are people who are leaving. :)
JMO

The research on real estate behavior in NYC seems to say it's CoVid.

People are well aware that community spread happened in lobbies, elevators, A/C systems, offices, subways, buses, and all the other things that NYers cannot really avoid.

People who can afford to leave, are leaving. I believe it's said that many of the most expensive buildings are emptying out.

At any rate, newer buildings are trying to be more appealing to the CoVid-adverse and realtors are leaving for greener pastures, if they can.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/17/nycs-newest-condo-and-rental-buildings-appeal-during-covid-19/

More people moving to NJ and FL

New York Real Estate Brokers Get Licensed in Other States
 
The research on real estate behavior in NYC seems to say it's CoVid.

I should have been more specific and said that “there are probably as many Covid-related reasons as there are people leaving.” I was questioning the assertion that “strong leadership” in NY has led to the exodus. If I were in a state with a lot of cases, regardless of the kind of leadership, I’d want to leave. But there really isn’t anywhere to go that’s guaranteed safe. So we stay home.
 
The research on real estate behavior in NYC seems to say it's CoVid.

People are well aware that community spread happened in lobbies, elevators, A/C systems, offices, subways, buses, and all the other things that NYers cannot really avoid.

People who can afford to leave, are leaving. I believe it's said that many of the most expensive buildings are emptying out.

At any rate, newer buildings are trying to be more appealing to the CoVid-adverse and realtors are leaving for greener pastures, if they can.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/17/nycs-newest-condo-and-rental-buildings-appeal-during-covid-19/

More people moving to NJ and FL

New York Real Estate Brokers Get Licensed in Other States

People are leaving congested cities all over the place. For exactly the reason you are stating. Congestion makes it that much harder to stay away from people, and their jobs are drying up, or they are forced to work from home in small apartments. They are re-assessing their quality of life, due to covid.

I don't believe it has anything to do with 'local leadership' as OP suggested.

'I'm out of here': City dwellers are fleeing to the country during COVID-19
Escape to the country: Will people leave cities behind post-pandemic?
COVID-19 Is Prompting Wealthy People to Move Out of Cities. The Plague Had the Same Effect Hundreds of Years Ago
 
Hubby and I talked about this, this morning. In San Diego, California there is a very large Hispanic population. As we abut the Mexican border.
Most Hispanic families live in very crowded conditions. Their culture is also very family oriented with large celebrations and gatherings often. For some reason, many are not " getting " the seriousness of Covid-19, or, can't socially distance due to their work or living conditions.
Consequently, their Covid-19 positives are much higher then the general population.
When they get tested. Also, many, many of them are undocumented (illegal) and probably afraid to go for testing.
So, in answer to your question. We still can only operate at 25%.
We will not agree to a third shutdown. So, yes, we will be rebels (with a cause).

This is where it went by county in California. You can probably check with whichever county you are in as to what they spent it on.

I am sure every state probably has a list like this. But as California has such a large population, it is a good example to look at.

The CARES Act Allocates $15.3 Billion to California. Here’s How Much Cities and Counties Are Entitled To. | California City News

CARES Funding Available to California‘s Local Governments in Millions (LAO)
Alameda County $292.3
Contra Costa County $201.7
Fresno County $80.9
Fresno City $93.9
Kern County $157.4
Los Angeles County $1,049.1
Los Angeles City $706.5
Orange County $555.4
Riverside County $432.1
Sacramento County $182.6
Sacramento City $88.9
San Bernardino County $381.3
San Diego County $335.4
San Diego City $248.4
San Francisco $154.2
San Joaquin County $133.3
San Mateo County $134.1
Santa Clara County $154.7
San Jose $182.4
Stanislaus County $96.3
Ventura County $148.0

Below report indicates how money goes to colleges and schools from regular and CARES funding. Seems like they could use some of that funding to upgrade their HVAC systems IMO.

An Overview of Federal Higher Education Relief

Some doctors are still using HXC.

El Centro doctor used Hydroxychloroquine as treatment for COVID-19 patients -

Some restaurants refusing to close if they go back a stage.

Several San Diego restaurants will refuse to close if county moves back to Tier 1 -

@KALI are you one of the rebels?
 
CVS adding more testing sites in Indiana:

CVS Health is adding 18 sites in Indiana, bringing the state's total to 48. Four new sites open Friday, Sept. 18 in Indianapolis:

  • 5611 Georgetown Road
  • 8405 Southeastern Ave.
  • 3350 N. High School Road
  • 5005 E. 56th St.
CVS Health has expanded testing to include children ages 12 and older. Testing is offered to insured and uninsured patients, with no out-of-pocket costs to patients.

More at link, including seating capacity Covid style, for Lucas Oil Stadium. Lucas Oil Stadium can seat 67,000 for football. It has been seating 2,500. Raised to 7,500 for the game against the jets.

Indiana coronavirus updates for September 17, 2020 | wthr.com

Map of Indiana testing sites (253) attached.

ISDH - Novel Coronavirus: COVID-19 Testing Information
 

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I should have been more specific and said that “there are probably as many Covid-related reasons as there are people leaving.” I was questioning the assertion that “strong leadership” in NY has led to the exodus. If I were in a state with a lot of cases, regardless of the kind of leadership, I’d want to leave. But there really isn’t anywhere to go that’s guaranteed safe. So we stay home.

Yes - I was agreeing with you. It has nothing to do with "leadership." In fact, without the strong leadership NY had, things would be even worse.

And yes, it's happening all over. In California, people are abandoning their hilltop houses (surrounded by flammable brush) if they can.

Anyone who lives in a single family dwelling with just 1-2 other people is in way better shape than people who have to live in high rises, especially those with long shared hallways, crowded elevators and sometimes, shared ventilation/sewer drains. And the more rural the place, the easier to isolate, for sure. Amazon delivers everywhere apparently (saw a truck in the middle of what used to be nowhere on a drive two days ago).

Reshaping of our human environment (with population flowing toward coastlines where it's cooler) has been predicted since the 60's and it's actually culminating in over-building in cities and urbanites flooding the more suburban/rural areas. Perhaps it will help the local economies in places that are economically depressed. That would be nice.

Louisiana has the most CoVid cases per capita. Florida is in second place - and yet, apparently, people are still moving there. Mississippi is in third place.

All three of these places are in the so-called "Southern trough" of real estate. It's very hard to move out once you move in (because property values are lower and people are unable to scrape together enough to move).

IOW, those three states have now managed to pass New York and New Jersey in terms of per capita cases.

And Florida...is leading the nation in terms of active cases, which is a key indicator if you're thinking of moving or traveling. California is in second place but has nearly twice as many people as Florida, with Georgia in third place, despite having only one-quarter the population of California and one-half the population of Florida.

And Arizona has an honorable mention as it is fourth place in both active cases and total cases. Arizona is projected to have more than 5000 additional CoVid deaths between now and New Year's Day.

Unfortunately, California is projected to have an additional 30,000 deaths by New Year's. Sheer size of cities is one feature, poorer people will continue to be the main demographic. Younger people are more and more represented in the new case numbers.

COVID-19 deaths among young and working age Latinos skyrocket in California, study finds

United States Coronavirus: 6,874,596 Cases and 202,213 Deaths - Worldometer

If Californians actually started wearing their masks when outside their own households (and social distancing), we could bring those deaths down to 20,000, maybe fewer.
 
I'm now home because a venue that was recently allowed to reopen threw us all out because the cook was leaving, which made them no longer a "restaurant." Perhaps metrics are dropping in the U.S. because we figured this out, just like we always do.
 
I'm now home because a venue that was recently allowed to reopen threw us all out because the cook was leaving, which made them no longer a "restaurant." Perhaps metrics are dropping in the U.S. because we figured this out, just like we always do.
I have no idea what this means.
 
NYT: C.D.C. Testing Guidance Was Published Against Scientists’ Objections

There seems to be a lot of whistleblowing going on this week.

Inter-agency conflicts? Really what we don't need right now with 200,000 deaths and rising.

I was wondering about the conflicting reports and tone coming out of the CDC, now that is explained.

Our guidance that came to every house in the country just recommended quarantine if exposed and await symptoms. If no symptoms within a certain number of days then no action required.

I don't see why the NYT think this is controversial as it seems normal practice.
 
It is a shame that people cannot be a bit more flexible in their thinking.

For example, we were initially advised not to wear masks unless we, ourselves, were ill.
The guidance later changed in certain parts due to outbreaks.
I still have 5 re-usable masks sitting in my linen closet. Understanding that my state's mask guidance may change at some point.

And it is a shame that people perhaps limit themselves to just looking at the US, when 'looking for answers'.
The whole world is experiencing covid deaths. Far too many. People are fooling themselves if they believe the US is immune or barely touched. The death count there is enormous, and even if they halve it in their own minds, it is still enormous. IMO

By population it is not enormous though, which is more accurate to look at. In addition, the FBI are actually investigating several care homes and the DOJ are also investigating the situation in 4 separate states. If there was negligence involved, those cases could be classed as manslaughter. MOO.

ETA - link for the fact part that it is not enormous. 10 more countries have a higher death rate per million. USA is number 11, UK and Spain are higher at number 10 and 5 respectively, Italy is 12 and Sweden is 13.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 30,358,098 Cases and 950,636 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer
 
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By population it is not enormous though, which is more accurate to look at. In addition, the FBI are actually investigating several care homes and the DOJ are also investigating the situation in 4 separate states. If there was negligence involved, those cases could be classed as manslaughter. MOO.

200,000 people is an enormous amount of people. Whether that be .0001%, .001%, 1%, 10% or whatever of a population.

I think of the stadium I used to go to in the US. Capacity 73,000. Loads and loads of people in there.
The current death toll in the US is approaching 3 of those sold-out stadiums. Poof! Gone. In less than 9 months.

Bless each and every one of them. All of them, all around the world. Lives lost too soon.

IMO
 
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100 % agree with you. Unfortunately, there will be no getting around the devastation being wrought on our small businesses in the years to come.
Sorrowful History is being written right now.
Unnecessary history due to really stupid leaders.
In my own opinion.

By population it is not enormous though, which is more accurate to look at. In addition, the FBI are actually investigating several care homes and the DOJ are also investigating the situation in 4 separate states. If there was negligence involved, those cases could be classed as manslaughter. MOO.
 
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