General Discussion Thread #2

[Estelle]

My guess is he either asked her to marry him or he wanted her to move to Johannesburg. She wasn't ready...

I can't find the link, but it is a fact that Domestic Homicides are most often triggered by the victim refusing to do what the assailant wants, unable to do what the assailant wants, or wanting to leave the relationship.

That is true. They want their victim where they can keep an eye on them. It is called CONTROL.

 

[Estelle]

BBM.

If that was his intention, it was misguided. Pushing for an immediate commitment is a sign of an abusive person, particularly when seen with other warning signs (see link below). This is sometimes overlooked in the early stages of a relationship because emotions are running high and it is seen as flattering, but in retrospect it is often recognized as an early warning sign of controlling behavior. If you've never seen the Dear Abby column on this topic (it has been run a few times) I urge you to check it out. (Mods can feel free to delete link if inappropriate.) I am not stating O.P. is an abuser, I'm saying that a claim of house hunting a week into a relationship should be seen as more of a warning sign than a sign of a healthy relationship.

http://domesticdiversions.com/index.php/dear-abbys-15-ways-to-spot-an-abuser/

All of the above is just my opinion.

I agree with you, Zinn. I am a Relationship Counsellor and there are many warning signs about OP that he is not a good prospect for a happy marriage.

 

[liverpoollou]

Here's a link to the statements: http://oscarpistorius.com/downloads/justin-nichlas-divaris-witness-statement.pdf

Many thanks for the link. I am reading through them now.

 

[shane13]

Possible logical implications RE this recent claim:
“Detectives said they were no longer concerned with whether Pistorius put on his legs before he shot Reeva, 29.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicidal-reveals-best-1753776


Pros originally made a big thing of this matter, as they said it related to a “downward angle” needed supposedly to ensure hitting RS through the door. Now if The Mirror report is correct, Pros. says this matter of the angle thru the door is basically moot.

Possible implications:
1. Geometry was found to make it impossible for bullets thru the door to have hit RS. (See my previous posts of 1-2 days ago.)
2. Forensic examination of bullets in RS found no trace of door matter.
3. Evidence that RS was already dead when emplaced in toilet, or had expired (after staggering there) by the time of the shots thru the door.

By now perhaps Pros. has had several forensics specialists, medical examiners etc. sign onto an extensive timeline scenario of what, where and when all crucial events occurred. Coupled with earwitness statements, and they know that the final sequence of shots after 17 minutes or so of silence were part of the cover-up after the murder had occurred.

JMOOC

 

[DriveBy]

ALL his girlfriends look like clones of each other....do you think he thought their brains/personality would be likewise, ie clones. Weird.

Good point. Yes, weird. I believe that OP has a troubled view of women, Reeva. I mean he looked upon his previous long-term girlfriend, Samantha Taylor, as his property - threatening to break her new boyfriend's legs. And he moved so fast with Reeva. It was as though to him his new relationship with Reeva was a continuation of his former relationship with Samantha. He transposed his feelings of contentment and the comfort level he had developed with Sam right in to his relationship with Reeva, and was ready for the next step. Hope everyone follows that...

IMO

 

[Zinn]

My guess is he either asked her to marry him or he wanted her to move to Johannesburg. She wasn't ready...

I can't find the link, but it is a fact that Domestic Homicides are most often triggered by the victim refusing to do what the assailant wants, unable to do what the assailant wants, or wanting to leave the relationship.

I don't think we know enough yet to be able to determine whether a conversation about "next steps" in the relationship occurred that evening. The fact that it was Valentine's Day and the cousin had been told of a new house earlier that evening are certainly clues, but we don't know for sure. If there was conflict around one of these issues, it could have been further fueled by an ultimatum. People who push for immediate commitments will often threaten to end the relationship completely if the other person won't agree to their terms. Obviously, a lot of drama can follow if both people are genuinely interested in maintaining the relationship but one has thrown out a very specific ultimatum. Obviously I'm doing a lot of speculating here.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[Estelle]

Since we are talking about it:

Quote:
Rage (often called fury or frenzy) is a feeling of intense or growing anger. It is associated with the Fight-or-flight response and oftentimes activated in response to an external cue, such as the murder of a loved one or some other kind of serious offense. The phrase, 'thrown into a fit of rage,' expresses the immediate nature of rage that occurs before deliberation. If left unchecked rage may lead to violence. Depression and anxiety lead to an increased susceptibility to rage and there are modern treatments for this emotional pattern.

Quote:
A person in a state of rage may also lose much of his or her capacity for rational thought and reasoning, and may act, usually violently, on his or her impulses to the point that they may attack until they themselves have been incapacitated or the source of their rage has been destroyed.

Quote:
Rage tends to be expressed when a person faces a threat to their pride, position, status or dignity.
Expression of rage can be very intense, often distinguished by distorted facial expressions and by threat (or execution) of physical attack. Rage is associated with individuals who experience psycho-pathological issues. This can lead to physical violence resulting in serious injury or death No kidding! My words.

Quote:
They also believe this 'self-inflicted' rage is a narcissistic response to one’s past injuries. Rage, under this set of theories, is caused from built up anger from past traumas. These accumulated dispositions are stored in our mind.

Quote:
a person would not first become enraged and then act, but do both simultaneously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_(emotion)

This is an excellent post, DriveBy. I realise I have not met OP but from what I know about him, he is a typical somatic narcissist. When he does not get his own way, he flares into a narcissistic rage and all hell breaks loose.

 

[liverpoollou]

So in January 2013 he told the press that he had not found the right person yet and a month later that wrong person is dead????

She obviously wasn't the right person.......and she proved it that night...she annoyed him and if you are the right person, you just don't do that.....think 1950s housewife, frilly apron, slippers by the fire, do anything that is asked of you......she looked like previous girlfriends, so therefore she should act like them too...after all he had honoured her with his adoraton. Reeva just did not appreciate her luck in getting him. (sarcasism by the way)

 

[Estelle]

Possible logical implications RE this recent claim:
“Detectives said they were no longer concerned with whether Pistorius put on his legs before he shot Reeva, 29.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicidal-reveals-best-1753776


Pros originally made a big thing of this matter, as they said it related to a “downward angle” needed supposedly to ensure hitting RS through the door. Now if The Mirror report is correct, Pros. says this matter of the angle thru the door is basically moot.

Possible implications:
1. Geometry was found to make it impossible for bullets thru the door to have hit RS. (See my previous posts of 1-2 days ago.)
2. Forensic examination of bullets in RS found no trace of door matter.
3. Evidence that RS was already dead when emplaced in toilet, or had expired (after staggering there) by the time of the shots thru the door.

By now perhaps Pros. has had several forensics specialists, medical examiners etc. sign onto an extensive timeline scenario of what, where and when all crucial events occurred. Coupled with earwitness statements, and they know that the final sequence of shots after 17 minutes or so of silence were part of the cover-up after the murder had occurred.

JMOOC

Excellent post, Shane. So what does this prove? Perjury? and his whole intruder story affidavit flies out the window! I wonder if his lawyers have told him this so he has now decided to try to flee the country to avoid both a criminal case as well as a civil case. So I guess all his property/assets will be put on the market so he is liquid with money in the bank for lawyers, his lifestyle in another non-extraditon country using those offshore accounts and if he does not flee, when he comes out of prison one day.

 

[DriveBy]

This is an excellent post, DriveBy. I realise I have not met OP but from what I know about him, he is a typical somatic narcissist. When he does not get his own way, he flares into a narcissistic rage and all hell breaks loose.

I will admit up front that the following video is seriously creepy given events and our discussions. Some of it is probably scripted, but it is OP and much of it is his thoughts exploited by Nike, but his true thoughts. His words at about .38 secs are interesting (to me):

ALWAYS ON: OSCAR PISTORIUS - YouTube

 

[Estelle]

From Carol:

Quote:
10.45am GMT
Botha admits he couldn't find anything at the crime scene inconsistent with Pistorius's accidental shooting version of events.

This statement was the most ridiculous statement.

I suspected they had bribed him on 14/2 to say something like that (to pay for his sons university education?)

Otherwise why would anyone in his position say that when it was inconsistent with what he had been saying before?

 

[natsound]

Did you watch the video I posted 10 minutes ago titled "How not to shoot a gun," and I wrote just before that about OP and his firearms expertise? Check those two, you will get the answer.

I saw the video. Thanks for posting. The attorney who made the claim on the 20/20 show has nothing to do with the case anyway, right?

 

[DriveBy]

From Carol:

Quote:
10.45am GMT
Botha admits he couldn't find anything at the crime scene inconsistent with Pistorius's accidental shooting version of events.

This statement was the most ridiculous statement.

I suspected they had bribed him on 14/2 to say something like that (to pay for his sons university education?)

Otherwise why would anyone in his position say that when it was inconsistent with what he had been saying before?

He was like a deer in the headlights, frozen. That happens to witnesses when a skilled attorney attacks them with a barrage of questions that they were not prepared to answer. In which case the witness answers as honestly as he/she can, but after they leave the witness stand they reflect back to how they could have, should have answered that question if they had been better prepared for it.

Botha has already come forth and told us that a bail hearing in SA is not like what he went through with this one. It is always a formality, not put on like an actual trial - as OP's attorneys did here.

 

[DriveBy]

I saw the video. Thanks for posting. The attorney who made the claim on the 20/20 show has nothing to do with the case anyway, right?

Right. The two attorneys are on the news stations often in the US; they each take a side of the argument and go at it - in a pleasant, civil way.

 

[SyraKelly]

Possible logical implications RE this recent claim:
“Detectives said they were no longer concerned with whether Pistorius put on his legs before he shot Reeva, 29.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicidal-reveals-best-1753776


Pros originally made a big thing of this matter, as they said it related to a “downward angle” needed supposedly to ensure hitting RS through the door. Now if The Mirror report is correct, Pros. says this matter of the angle thru the door is basically moot.

Possible implications:
1. Geometry was found to make it impossible for bullets thru the door to have hit RS. (See my previous posts of 1-2 days ago.)
2. Forensic examination of bullets in RS found no trace of door matter.
3. Evidence that RS was already dead when emplaced in toilet, or had expired (after staggering there) by the time of the shots thru the door.

By now perhaps Pros. has had several forensics specialists, medical examiners etc. sign onto an extensive timeline scenario of what, where and when all crucial events occurred. Coupled with earwitness statements, and they know that the final sequence of shots after 17 minutes or so of silence were part of the cover-up after the murder had occurred.

JMOOC

I agree with everything you said-they have a good idea what happened that night-JMO

 

[shane13]

Excellent post, Shane. So what does this prove? Perjury? and his whole intruder story affidavit flies out the window! I wonder if his lawyers have told him this so he has now decided to try to flee the country to avoid both a criminal case as well as a civil case. So I guess all his property/assets will be put on the market so he is liquid with money in the bank for lawyers, his lifestyle in another non-extraditon country using those offshore accounts and if he does not flee, when he comes out of prison one day.

Prove?
Maybe doesn't prove anything. I only detailed logical implications.

And RE perjury. I do not know the laws and regs in SA RE perjury. In the USA, I believe they usually allow leeway and don't look to charge a defendant with perjury when s/he concocts a false alibi.

And my post doesn't lead to "he must flee now" either.
While it would not surprise me if he did flee or try to, I do not think it is likely that he will try.

If he (and his family) are deeply connected to the power structure, he does not have to. No jury of his peers will hear the case. A Magistrate there has great leeway. A plea deal could be reached before trial. Or the Judge could give a light sentence that could have OP running again in a year or two.

I was merely indicating what I wrote: that Pros. now has a probable complete timeline of the events of the crime.

I will now give another original deduction of other possible crimes he could be charged with perhaps.

Alteration of a crime scene, and/or obstruction of justice. These relate to the coverup events he did. Also if they think she was already dead: in the USA, I believe there is a separate possible charge for interfering with a corpse.

Again I do not know if they have the same or similar charges. But if the lengthy scenario I have laid out the last 2-3 weeks here is valid, the above indicates, there are other possible crimes they could charge him with, if they want to.

JMOOC

Update: I do not think they will charge OP additionally (the possible crimes I just listed above) for various reasons.
But does anyone know if they made the addn'l charge that they were threatening in the first days?

Cops found ammo in the safe IIRC and said that was unlicensed or not for his gun, and said they would charge him for that. And OP's defense said something like he was holding that for was it Dad or uncle?

Has OP been charged RE the ammo?

 

[liverpoollou]

I am now convinced that was what I read and it proved to me that he killed Reeva intentionally. Fancy destroying her gift. Cecil Myers also destroyed a photo she had at his home of Oscar. It is now coming back to me. They were reported in the first few days.

It doesn't means it's true though does it......I try to take everything with a pinch of salt tlll its proved..people like to speculate and before long speculaton becomes fact. Just because it is in print, doesn't mean it is true.
If it comes out at trial the photo was found beside her body smashed....I'll believe it, otherwise it is 50/50 this happened.

 

[liverpoollou]

I am now convinced that was what I read and it proved to me that he killed Reeva intentionally. Fancy destroying her gift. Cecil Myers also destroyed a photo she had at his home of Oscar. It is now coming back to me. They were reported in the first few days.

It doesn't means it's true though does it......I try to take everything with a pinch of salt tlll its proved..people like to speculate and before long speculaton becomes fact. Just because it is in print, doesn't mean it is true.
If it comes out at trial the photo was found beside her body smashed....I'll believe it, otherwise it is 50/50 this happened.

 

[Estelle]

I will admit up front that the following video is seriously creepy given events and our discussions. Some of it is probably scripted, but it is OP and much of it is his thoughts exploited by Nike, but his true thoughts. His words at about .38 secs are interesting (to me):

ALWAYS ON: OSCAR PISTORIUS - YouTube

What a perfectionist! This video makes me suspect that Oscar could also have Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD).

"OCPD is a chronic non-adaptive pattern of extreme perfectionism, preoccupation with neatness and detail, and a requirement or need for control or power over one's environment that causes major suffering and stress, especially in areas of personal relationships. Persons with OCPD are usually known to be inflexible and extremely controlling. They may find it hard to relax, and feel the need to plan out their activities down to the minute. OCPD occurs in about 1% of the general population. It is seen in 3–10% of psychiatric outpatients. It is twice as common in males as females."

"Perception of own and others' actions and beliefs tend to be polarised (i.e., "right" or "wrong", with little or no margin between the two) for people with this disorder. As might be expected, such rigidity places strain on interpersonal relationships, with frustration sometimes turning into anger and even violence. This is known as disinhibition. People with OCPD often tend to general pessimism and/or underlying form(s) of depression. This can at times become so serious that suicide is a risk."

I do not mean OCD.

"People experiencing OCPD do not generally feel the need to repeatedly perform ritualistic actions—a common symptom of OCD—and usually find pleasure in perfecting a task, whereas OCD patients are often more distressed after their actions"

Obsessive–compulsive personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Patticake]

Shouldn't the BBC show be on right now? Hmm?



.