Refer to #262 in the judgment. Mrs Harnum thought that the final phone call was made on the Friday night (Sydney time) because Lisa had said she was going to bed. Phone records show the last overseas phone was made early on the Sat morning.
GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #3
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Refer to #262 in the judgment. Mrs Harnum thought that the final phone call was made on the Friday night (Sydney time) because Lisa had said she was going to bed. Phone records show the last overseas phone was made early on the Sat morning.
FigTree
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I think this is interesting. I would like to know exactly when RL & SG started their 'relationship' - and how it started.
I think they were in a relationship when SG was charged with murder. It also coincides with this comment from RLW's mother...
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I think they were in a relationship when SG was charged with murder. It also coincides with this comment from RLW's mother...
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Met about 5 years ago through mutual friends. Started relationship about a year ago.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...his-murder-trial/story-fni0cx12-1226770313369
SouthAussie
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However, the story that they started going out about a year ago comes from the girl who yells at the judge to say she is wrong, believes he didn’t murder Lisa because he told her he didn’t, wants to make a movie about Lisa’s death, slowly buttoned up her shirt more and more over the past month to create the image he wanted ……
I actually don’t believe what she says about when the ‘relationship’ started. I also see Gittany as the kind of man who may have had ‘exciting’ bits of fluff on the side, while he was busy trapping his fiancée in a dreary, lonely, monitored life where she should serve him and only him.
I actually don’t believe what she says about when the ‘relationship’ started. I also see Gittany as the kind of man who may have had ‘exciting’ bits of fluff on the side, while he was busy trapping his fiancée in a dreary, lonely, monitored life where she should serve him and only him.
Yep - it was one of the three final calls logged by Telstra Saturday morning. I'm just trying to link them all together - because for Joan, all of this was Friday afternoon / evening
Brightbird
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I wouldn't put much stock in what RL's mum says, personally. Apparently she decided that SG is a good guy based on the fact she couldn't bait him into arguing with her. Mind you, I think she's probably making that up to be supportive of RL's ambitions.
Her comment could be read as though SG and RL were dating the whole time he was facing the charge. But if SG was in RL's wider circle of friends, maybe her mum didn't know about the charge until after they started dating.
FigTree
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A year ago from when though...
It would seem that would be last November 2012 - but on her Beyond Beautiful Radio Interview she is stated as mentioning dating SG - that show was the June 14th 2012 - so that is over a year. I wondered if she had come back to Australia to start the relationship with SG between travelling.
Podcast
Gina's guest was world traveler Rachelle Louise. What is it like to be only 22 years old and traveling the world on you own? Well Rachelle Louise knows,
originally from Australia she has been roaming the world as a free spirit basically sight seeing for two straight years. In this show you will see the world through Rachelle's eyes as she shares some her of most memorable experiences. Listeners email questions were answered
When was SG charged with murder?
FigTree
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Im thinking from the quote that RL was dating SG at the time of the charge and RL's mother tested him out because her daughter was dating a guy charged with murder.
:dunno:
FigTree
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Supplied photos of Lisa Harnum from High School friend Sarah Faust. Lisa Harnum pictured with Simon Gittany. Source: News Limited
Adelaide Now News Read More...
Lisa Harnum's photos held chilling clues about killer Simon Gittany
AMY DALE IN TORONTO, CANADA
"She started posting pictures from Sydney and we were thinking 'what is she doing, who is this guy'? He looked 50," friend Sarah Faust said.
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It was just one sign, the court heard, of a relationship quickly defined by abuse and power, with those who knew Lisa dismayed to discover she'd been filmed and monitored in her own apartment.
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His murder trial was told that Gittany ordered Lisa on her last ever trip to Canada in December 2010 that she only spend time with family during the holiday to her hometown and it appeared she followed his direction - none of the close friends that The Daily Telegraph have spoken to saw her on the trip or knew anybody who had.
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SouthAussie
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BBM
Arrested August 4, 2011 (and presumably charged then, as he was thrown in jail then) ... bailed January 20, 2012.
When she was speaking of him in the radio interview (as you say, 14th June 2012) it sounded as though the 'relationship' was already pretty close IMO. Whether it was because they had plans to make a movie, or he needed a gullible girl to 'represent' him and make him feel like a real man, or because he didn't want to live at home but couldn't stay at the apartment either, ..... or whatever.
icu nurse -- You rock. Thanks heaps for the timeline.. It gutted me, though, to read how much fear, no - terror- is evident between the lines of all of that.
I am, and no kidding here, quite often a sociopath magnet. For some reason that afik has NOTHING to do with who I am, they LOVE me (well, they don't.. I am speaking figuratively, as they cannot actually love anyone...) like I have a sign over my head. It's insane. Mainly as I do not put up with their crap- the minute I identify the traits, they are g-o-n-e (this is why I never bring men I haven't known -forever- near my home or my child, you never know who the hell people are until they show their colours).
Anyhow, point being -- through these experiences, I have come to recognise certain things. And as someone upthread was saying about having Lisa at home while he played the field - yep, a lot of men cheat. But not like this. It's like they NEED an 'anchor' - someone to control and pretend to love (but really, just an extension of themselves they can control, while being out of control), while they go about collecting less important 'satellite' women. But whatever 'love' they imagine they have isn't a real emotion, and the --minute- the 'anchor' leaves or becomes undesirable, she is replaced. Hello, RL!!
Sorry if that was TMI, it just struck me as maybe being relevant to Lisa's situation. I've seen it several times, in emotionally retarded men I have had a 'relationship' with, and men I have simply known -- they love having me for just a "friend" also, wtf is up with that.. I wish I knew.
Probably working off some karma for being Atilla the Hun in a past life, or some crap.
I am, and no kidding here, quite often a sociopath magnet. For some reason that afik has NOTHING to do with who I am, they LOVE me (well, they don't.. I am speaking figuratively, as they cannot actually love anyone...) like I have a sign over my head. It's insane. Mainly as I do not put up with their crap- the minute I identify the traits, they are g-o-n-e (this is why I never bring men I haven't known -forever- near my home or my child, you never know who the hell people are until they show their colours).
Anyhow, point being -- through these experiences, I have come to recognise certain things. And as someone upthread was saying about having Lisa at home while he played the field - yep, a lot of men cheat. But not like this. It's like they NEED an 'anchor' - someone to control and pretend to love (but really, just an extension of themselves they can control, while being out of control), while they go about collecting less important 'satellite' women. But whatever 'love' they imagine they have isn't a real emotion, and the --minute- the 'anchor' leaves or becomes undesirable, she is replaced. Hello, RL!!
Sorry if that was TMI, it just struck me as maybe being relevant to Lisa's situation. I've seen it several times, in emotionally retarded men I have had a 'relationship' with, and men I have simply known -- they love having me for just a "friend" also, wtf is up with that.. I wish I knew.
Probably working off some karma for being Atilla the Hun in a past life, or some crap.
FigTree
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Supplied photos of Lisa Harnum from High School friend Sarah Faust. Lisa Harnum pictured with Simon Gittany. Source: News Limited
Adelaide Now News. Read More...
In another photo Gittany shows his ease at holding and carrying Lisa, whose 1.78m frame weighed about 50kg at the time of her death.
The playful images were at odds with the domination Gittany held over his fiancee.
That picture chills me.
Lisa had many friends in Canada - from the news article, she was much loved and is missed by her friends.
My heart goes out to them for their loss too.
Lisa touched so many people with her friendship, personality and smile.
.
SouthAussie
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Supplied photos of Lisa Harnum from High School friend Sarah Faust. Lisa Harnum pictured with Simon Gittany. Source: News Limited
Adelaide Now News. Read More...
In another photo Gittany shows his ease at holding and carrying Lisa, whose 1.78m frame weighed about 50kg at the time of her death.
The playful images were at odds with the domination Gittany held over his fiancee.
That picture chills me.
Lisa had many friends in Canada - from the news article, she was much loved and is missed by her friends.
My heart goes out to them for their loss too.
Lisa touched so many people with her friendship, personality and smile.
.
Is that a plain-band gold ring on Lisa's right hand in the photo .... like the plain-band gold ring RL has recently started wearing on her right hand? It shows in photos of her smoking outside the courthouse on judgement day, but not in other photos (or not that I've noticed anyway).
Not suggesting it is the same ring, but perhaps the same giver and reason for giving .... like a 'promise' ring ....
FigTree
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icu nurse -- You rock. Thanks heaps for the timeline.. It gutted me, though, to read how much fear, no - terror- is evident between the lines of all of that.
I am, and no kidding here, quite often a sociopath magnet. For some reason that afik has NOTHING to do with who I am, they LOVE me (well, they don't.. I am speaking figuratively, as they cannot actually love anyone...) like I have a sign over my head. It's insane. Mainly as I do not put up with their crap- the minute I identify the traits, they are g-o-n-e (this is why I never bring men I haven't known -forever- near my home or my child, you never know who the hell people are until they show their colours).
Anyhow, point being -- through these experiences, I have come to recognise certain things. And as someone upthread was saying about having Lisa at home while he played the field - yep, a lot of men cheat. But not like this. It's like they NEED an 'anchor' - someone to control and pretend to love (but really, just an extension of themselves they can control, while being out of control), while they go about collecting less important 'satellite' women. But whatever 'love' they imagine they have isn't a real emotion, and the --minute- the 'anchor' leaves or becomes undesirable, she is replaced. Hello, RL!!
Sorry if that was TMI, it just struck me as maybe being relevant to Lisa's situation. I've seen it several times, in emotionally retarded men I have had a 'relationship' with, and men I have simply known -- they love having me for just a "friend" also, wtf is up with that.. I wish I knew.
Probably working off some karma for being Atilla the Hun in a past life, or some crap.
I think you mentioning the cheating element and satellite 'others' are totally relevant Ausgirl. Its a great point.
It is about psychological damage to the target and part of the testing the abuser does to the target. The abuser is trying to test the targets inner strength, their conviction to commit to them, their ability, their wisdom, and trust.
All things the abuser lacks.
Then the abuser lies about it.
Its a headlock situation.
Even reading icu's (awesome) timeline. The moment I see things like 'SG going to a meeting' - I don't believe it was business related. He was probably at the local brothel.
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That picture chills me.
It's very creepy. I think she's conscious because her right leg looks like she has it bent.
FigTree
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Nice catch SA!
and, I have always wondered if SG took Lisa's engagement ring off her - or did she still have it on the day she passed.
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FigTree
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Yes, I think these are in the context of Lisa in better
scared times with SG - wonder who took the photo or how the photo was taken - and was this for SG's sake to say 'look at me' :facepalm:.
There's a couple of things that today's postings have got me wondering.
A) When did the police find out that SG asked his brother to retrieve the hard drive of the camera footage?
Some of the reasons why people accused of murder are refused on bail is so they will not interfere with witnesses, tamper with evidence or get other people to do the previous two things. 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
B) Does SG have any links to organised crime?
It was interesting that key witness Josh Rathmell was escorted by three police during the case. How often does that happen? Did the police think SG or his family would try to have Rathmell whacked?
A) When did the police find out that SG asked his brother to retrieve the hard drive of the camera footage?
Some of the reasons why people accused of murder are refused on bail is so they will not interfere with witnesses, tamper with evidence or get other people to do the previous two things. 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
B) Does SG have any links to organised crime?
It was interesting that key witness Josh Rathmell was escorted by three police during the case. How often does that happen? Did the police think SG or his family would try to have Rathmell whacked?
Brightbird
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With regards to B, I don't know, but his family has form. His own mother attacked police when he bit the ear off the policeman. And his sister stood by hurling abuse. Just on that alone, I think it was wise to protect the witness.
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