NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

[minazoe]

Can't believe it's ten years either!

 

[gnomony]

Renner to MM today: "I believe you are alive. And I believe I know where you went. Who you traveled with. And how you got there."

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com

 

[SmoothOperator]

Oh how great that would be for Maura to have been alive, well, and off creating a whole new little world for herself.. I just personally do not at all find it likely.. Is it possible?.. Well, pretty much anything is possible, especially when there are so very many unknown factors and variables to this case.. So, yes in terms of possibility Maura could be off having lived a whole new life for herself for the last decade..

Just my own little personal opinion in it being way slimmer than even the "slim to none" used up cliché.. Again jmo.. I do however find it to be bull$hit on the part of JR to come out with such a post, yet zero, nil, none, zip of anything whatsoever to even begin to substantiate his claim.. A claim that according to none other than himself he is merely days away from bringing resolve to it all..

He has all the need to know factors that would lead to resolve(as in according to him he knows the who, the why, and even the where).. Well, if indeed it is a fact that he knows those 3 extremely crucial pieces to the puzzle, then IMO the puzzle is already solved and it is none other than JR, himself who is holding the very answers that SO VERY MANY CARING AND CONCERNED PEOPLE have been desperately seeking FOR A DECADE..

I personally call BS, but will be the very first person to step up, eat crow, and offer a sincere apology to JR if I am wrong ..and we see the proof that JR has the case resolved in the next weeks with the correct answers to why Maura has devastated the lives of many, with whom Maura went off with to create herself this whole new life, and where it is that Maura's whole new life has been created and built over the last decade..

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

 

[Aleph]

He could be trying to bait her into responding, if she's out there. This could be a bluff. In fact, I don't see any reason for such a post, other than to bluff.

If it is a bluff, these are (at best) highly unorthodox tactics with great potential to harm the only people who may be left to be hurt in this case -- namely, Maura's family and friends.

I hope he ain't playin. I hope he's really found her.


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[Fireweed]

New here, but have been following this case for years. I agree that Renner is probably full of it. I think he is trying to hype up interest in his book.

However, based upon the behavior of Maura's family, I strongly suspect that they know that she is still alive. I do not think that they knew she was still alive the first few years she was missing though.

 

[Aleph]

I'm new to this case, too (though I'm originally from the area). What has Maura's family done that suggests they believe she's still alive?


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[Fireweed]

Maura's family does not cooperate with efforts to find her. I find that very odd, and the complete opposite of what other families of missing persons do. The only conclusion I can come to is that they know she is alive and are now trying to keep her from being found.

 

[Aleph]

Fascinating. When did they stop cooperating?


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[McSpy]

Oh how great that would be for Maura to have been alive, well, and off creating a whole new little world for herself.. I just personally do not at all find it likely.. Is it possible?.. Well, pretty much anything is possible, especially when there are so very many unknown factors and variables to this case.. So, yes in terms of possibility Maura could be off having lived a whole new life for herself for the last decade..

Just my own little personal opinion in it being way slimmer than even the "slim to none" used up cliché.. Again jmo.. I do however find it to be bull$hit on the part of JR to come out with such a post, yet zero, nil, none, zip of anything whatsoever to even begin to substantiate his claim.. A claim that according to none other than himself he is merely days away from bringing resolve to it all..

He has all the need to know factors that would lead to resolve(as in according to him he knows the who, the why, and even the where).. Well, if indeed it is a fact that he knows those 3 extremely crucial pieces to the puzzle, then IMO the puzzle is already solved and it is none other than JR, himself who is holding the very answers that SO VERY MANY CARING AND CONCERNED PEOPLE have been desperately seeking FOR A DECADE..

I personally call BS, but will be the very first person to step up, eat crow, and offer a sincere apology to JR if I am wrong ..and we see the proof that JR has the case resolved in the next weeks with the correct answers to why Maura has devastated the lives of many, with whom Maura went off with to create herself this whole new life, and where it is that Maura's whole new life has been created and built over the last decade..

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

I tend to think JR's theory is off. I hope he is right about MM being alive, but I doubt it. There is another writer, who wrote a book about the McStay family disappearance. His theory was that Summer McStay killed her husband and fled to Mexico or beyond with the children. A worldwide media storm followed about his theory. Well, last week, the whole family was found in 2 graves in the Mohave Desert. LE said it was a homicide. The writer was way off! He pretty much made a fool of himself. So, I hope JR knows what he is talking about. It could backfire, if he is unsure.

JMO

 

[McSpy]

Maura's family does not cooperate with efforts to find her. I find that very odd, and the complete opposite of what other families of missing persons do. The only conclusion I can come to is that they know she is alive and are now trying to keep her from being found.

Wait a second . . How do you know this??? Proof please.

 

[McSpy]

Maura's family does not cooperate with efforts to find her. I find that very odd, and the complete opposite of what other families of missing persons do. The only conclusion I can come to is that they know she is alive and are now trying to keep her from being found.

Why do you think the family is not cooperating? What gives you that idea.

 

[McSpy]

Fascinating. When did they stop cooperating?


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Chances are this poster is referring to the family not cooperating with JR. I can see them not doing that, because he has been very unkind to them. I'm waiting for an answer on what makes him or her believe the family doesn't want to cooperate, because they supposedly know she is alive.

Still waiting . .

Just my opinion.

 

[Fireweed]

In what way has Renner been rude to them? He asked to interview them about his book and they refused. No doubt her family were the first people he contacted when researching his book. They would have not even seen the blog at this point. Thus, I find it damn odd that they would not participate in any interview that might help find Maura. Why would they not want more publicity for their daughter's case? It seems like a great way to either find her, or bring the people responsible for her disappearance to justice.

I know a lot of people think Renner is some big meanie, but all he has done, like any good investigator, questioned the narrative we all originally heard. That is not being rude. He was right to question it, as much of what was reported was inaccurate. He should be questioning if Fred Murray has always told the truth. Again, that is being thorough. I also question Fred Murray's version of events. This does not mean I am "hating" on FM, or that I am "mean." It means that, IMO, Fred Murray has said a few things that have raised some red flags. For example, when he talks about how he and Maura spent that weekend shopping for cars, he ends it with "you know?" which is a classic phrase people use after telling a lie. He may or may not be lying, but I think it is totally fair to question whether he was telling the truth about car shopping. Why? Because the truth of why Fred went to visit Maura that weekend might have something to do with her disappearance. Again, questioning him is not being rude. It is being a good sleuth.

 

[scoops]

I kind of go a different way than believing that the family of Maura isn't cooperating.

I truthfully believe that the family no longer believes Maura is alive. (because they have said as much in interviews).

Fred's focus for many years now has been on trying to prove that police bungled his daughter's case, not on locating Maura alive.


So, I don't believe they aren't cooperating when it comes to doing interviews in the current day. I just think they are past that point and going over all of the minute details of Maura's last days (to them) is not going to accomplish anything anymore.

Now getting police investigators to release everything they have on the case --- would once and for all show the family just how much true work the police did in trying to find their daughter. I predict that day (police releasing their files publically or to family) will never come.

 

[McSpy]

In what way has Renner been rude to them? He asked to interview them about his book and they refused. No doubt her family were the first people he contacted when researching his book. They would have not even seen the blog at this point. Thus, I find it damn odd that they would not participate in any interview that might help find Maura. Why would they not want more publicity for their daughter's case? It seems like a great way to either find her, or bring the people responsible for her disappearance to justice.

I know a lot of people think Renner is some big meanie, but all he has done, like any good investigator, questioned the narrative we all originally heard. That is not being rude. He was right to question it, as much of what was reported was inaccurate. He should be questioning if Fred Murray has always told the truth. Again, that is being thorough. I also question Fred Murray's version of events. This does not mean I am "hating" on FM, or that I am "mean." It means that, IMO, Fred Murray has said a few things that have raised some red flags. For example, when he talks about how he and Maura spent that weekend shopping for cars, he ends it with "you know?" which is a classic phrase people use after telling a lie. He may or may not be lying, but I think it is totally fair to question whether he was telling the truth about car shopping. Why? Because the truth of why Fred went to visit Maura that weekend might have something to do with her disappearance. Again, questioning him is not being rude. It is being a good sleuth.

Maura's family not talking to JR doesn't mean the family are not cooperating in this investigation. I can see why the family does not want anything to do with JR. He gets mean when he doesn't get his way, IMO. His blog is full of insinuations.

I don't know what they are doing in terms of cooperation with LE, but I doubt most people know the answer.

JMO

 

[Fireweed]

Fred's focus for many years now has been on trying to prove that police bungled his daughter's case, not on locating Maura alive.


So, I don't believe they aren't cooperating when it comes to doing interviews in the current day. I just think they are past that point and going over all of the minute details of Maura's last days (to them) is not going to accomplish anything anymore.

This is why I consider Fred Murray to be uncooperative in finding his daughter. He has (repeatedly) said that Maura's past is "irrelevant." Wait, what??? The only way we would know if Maura's past is irrelevant, is if we knew what happened to her. We do not know what happened to her, thus we do not know if her past is or is not relevant to solving the case.

To me this means either that Fred Murray knows what happened to Maura, or he knows that her past is relevant, and that it would lead to her being found, and he does not want her found.

The only other explanation I can think of is that Fred so desperately wants to stop people from digging into his daughter's past, that he is willing to take the risk that she will never be found because of it. So far I have not seen anything from Maura's past that is all that horrific. In fact it seems relatively within the range of "normal" behavior for someone her age. Besides the credit card fraud, Maura did nothing I did not do in college.

But back to the past being relevant. Say Maura met a guy (in her past, before the wreck) who she was planning to meet up with. Like all girls her age, she did not tell her father about it, so he does not know anything about. What if that guy murdered Maura? How can we find her body and solve the crime without digging into her past and actually knowing about the guy's existence and presence in Maura's life? Obviously this is just one example of a possible scenario, but I could come up with many more hypotheticals that would be within the realm of things that could have actually happened, which would involve Maura's past being relevant.

Fred Murray's constant insistence that Maura's past does not matter is a huge red flag for me. It is the main reason I see him as being uncooperative. He wants this crime solved with only a fraction of the information a person would need to solve a missing person's case.

 

[OldSteve]

I tend to think JR's theory is off. I hope he is right about MM being alive, but I doubt it. There is another writer, who wrote a book about the McStay family disappearance. His theory was that Summer McStay killed her husband and fled to Mexico or beyond with the children. A worldwide media storm followed about his theory. Well, last week, the whole family was found in 2 graves in the Mohave Desert. LE said it was a homicide. The writer was way off! He pretty much made a fool of himself. So, I hope JR knows what he is talking about. It could backfire, if he is unsure.

JMO

Good point about the McStays. Does give hope that MM will be found one day. I'm divided between foul-play, suicide, or death from exposure for MM.

 

[TexaninPA]

Newbie here, but I've been lurking in this thread since last spring. Over Easter weekend, I binge-read all of the prior MM threads and just can't get this case out of my head. I don't have anything new to add, but I really appreciate all the thought and work that so many have put into this disappearance. I hope we'll learn what happened.

 

[McSpy]

This is why I consider Fred Murray to be uncooperative in finding his daughter. He has (repeatedly) said that Maura's past is "irrelevant." Wait, what??? The only way we would know if Maura's past is irrelevant, is if we knew what happened to her. We do not know what happened to her, thus we do not know if her past is or is not relevant to solving the case.

To me this means either that Fred Murray knows what happened to Maura, or he knows that her past is relevant, and that it would lead to her being found, and he does not want her found.

The only other explanation I can think of is that Fred so desperately wants to stop people from digging into his daughter's past, that he is willing to take the risk that she will never be found because of it. So far I have not seen anything from Maura's past that is all that horrific. In fact it seems relatively within the range of "normal" behavior for someone her age. Besides the credit card fraud, Maura did nothing I did not do in college.

But back to the past being relevant. Say Maura met a guy (in her past, before the wreck) who she was planning to meet up with. Like all girls her age, she did not tell her father about it, so he does not know anything about. What if that guy murdered Maura? How can we find her body and solve the crime without digging into her past and actually knowing about the guy's existence and presence in Maura's life? Obviously this is just one example of a possible scenario, but I could come up with many more hypotheticals that would be within the realm of things that could have actually happened, which would involve Maura's past being relevant.

Fred Murray's constant insistence that Maura's past does not matter is a huge red flag for me. It is the main reason I see him as being uncooperative. He wants this crime solved with only a fraction of the information a person would need to solve a missing person's case.

I think he knows she was emotional and very upset anyway, IMO, he just thinks something happened to her after her accident in NH. Possibly, he thinks the rest (her past) is just muddying the waters. It is all noise. I can see why he feels this way. Possibly, he feels it is a waste of time. He wants to know what happened to her after the accident in NH. I can't really speak for him, but this is my impression.

If we dredge up her past, it still doesn't tell us what happened to her. It hasn't helped so far. She's been picked a part for almost 10 years. So far, we know that she was an emotional wreck, but we still haven't found her. Now, we are moving on to picking apart the rest of the family? I don't think this is helpful. IMO, I think she isn't alive, unfortunately. I hope she is found someday, so there is at least some partial closure for the family.

JMO

 

[Fireweed]

I have some sympathy for Fred Murray, because I believe he is a very private person, and also very concerned over how his daughter is perceived. But I still do not know what he knows that would make him certain that Maura's past does not matter. He has even said that "we will never know why Maura came up here." Huh? Well if Maura is found alive, then we will know because we will ask her. Fred Murray says some very, very strange things which is one of the reasons so many people are now even more interested in Maura's past.

I do not know if everything sources say about Maura is true or not. But let's say that they are true. For example, some sources have claimed that Maura was cheating on Billy and that she had been with other men. Okay, this actually does not seem that far outside the range of normal for a woman her age who is likely outgrowing the boyfriend who everyone expects her to marry. So assuming this is true, then IMO, Maura's past may mean a great deal to help finding her. Did she have a secret boyfriend? Maybe she just took off with him somewhere.

If Fred Murray ever reads this then I have one suggestion for him: go through this board and see how desperately people want the Long Island serial killer case solved. His victims were drug-addicted prostitutes. Not one of those women had a "clean" past. That does not stop the public from wanting their killer brought to justice. However, the best way we can catch the killer is to reconstruct the last days of those women and figure out who or what brought them out to Giglo Beach. A murder victim's last moment does not exist in a vacuum; their encounter with the killer was the end result of a culmination of events. We are trying to do the same thing with Maura. It is not "prying" - it is simply the best way to solve a case like this. The only other way this case will get solved is through pure dumb luck. A good sleuth would never rely on that. I honestly have no idea how anyone who comes to a sleuthing board could sincerely believe that Maura's past does not matter. It may turn out it does not matter, but until this case is solved, her past is all we have to go by for solving this case.