IL IL - The Unidentified Victims of John Wayne Gacy

[EmmaliLucia]

I could have SWORN I saw something saying that DNA proved it wasn't really her son.


I'm also dying to find out if they put the DNA in CODIS or are just twiddling their thumbs and only comparing the DNA of those who come forward.


Also, why is the boy that was identified still in DoeNetwork? I can see his page clear as day and it doesn't even say "IDENTIFIED" on it.


Ugh. I want to fly to Chicago and just volunteer to put in all the information myself. Good God I think we all could do a better job than the people who are getting paid to do this.

 

[Kimster]

It turned out that the siblings' DNA matched a different set of remains, bones found in 2000 by an off-duty New Jersey trooper walking in Bass River State Park — not far from the campground where, in April 1972, Steven Soden had traveled with a group from his Paterson-based orphanage. Steven and a friend bolted from the group and were never seen again.

Arthur J. Eisenberg, co-director of the Center for Human Identification, said the only reason his lab matched the DNA was that New Jersey had sent samples of the bones years earlier for placement into the national system.

"That's the power of this testing," he said. "Once you get the samples into the system, who knows who can be identified."

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Remains-Steven-Soden-Paterson-207451661.html

 

[EmmaliLucia]

It turned out that the siblings' DNA matched a different set of remains, bones found in 2000 by an off-duty New Jersey trooper walking in Bass River State Park — not far from the campground where, in April 1972, Steven Soden had traveled with a group from his Paterson-based orphanage. Steven and a friend bolted from the group and were never seen again.

Arthur J. Eisenberg, co-director of the Center for Human Identification, said the only reason his lab matched the DNA was that New Jersey had sent samples of the bones years earlier for placement into the national system.

"That's the power of this testing," he said. "Once you get the samples into the system, who knows who can be identified."

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Remains-Steven-Soden-Paterson-207451661.html

I was actually thinking about Michael Marino.

 

[EmmaliLucia]

So I decided to match them up to make it easier for me (And possibly easier for you guys, too.) So please correct me if I'm wrong.

Victim Number 5

Victim Number 10

Victim Number 13

Victim Number 19

Victim Number 21

Victim Number 24

Victim Number 26

Victim Number 28

 

[joeytes]

Victim 19 was identified in 2011.

Link is below.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/913543...dentified-35-years-after-he-went-missing.html

 

[EmmaliLucia]

Thank you, I was trying to figure out which one it was but the thread was a little confusing.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Bumping

 

[CarlK90245]

Here's a new addition to NamUs (probably added during last week's Missing in Michigan convention) who might be a possible Gacy victim.

He was missing from Ann Arbor MI right in the timeframe of Gacy's reign of terror.

Jeffery Lee Stinnett

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/21718/0

 

[Migmuu]

Was just looking at NamUs and there's one boy, Rickey Enochs, who really got my attention. Not sure if he's been mentioned here yet. He seems to match up pretty well to Victim no.10, but he could possibly be another one of Gacy's unidentified victims.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/10913/120/

Compared to Victim no.10:

• Age is within the 17 - 21 range
• Height is within the 5'7 - 5'11 range
• Hair is curly. Rickey's hair is listed as blonde while UID's is brown, but those errors aren't uncommon, especially with older cases like this
• Circumstances are pretty eerie. ''According to family members, Rickey left the house with an unknown individual in a vehicle with Illinois plates. He did not take any personal belongings with his, and told his father he would be back soon. The family has not heard from him since.''
• Race matches
• I think Rickey resembles the facial reconstruction

The only big discrepancy I can see is that Victim no.10 is estimated to have died between July 1975 and April 1976, and Rickey is listed as disappearing in June 1977.

 

[EmmaliLucia]

Was just looking at NamUs and there's one boy, Rickey Enochs, who really got my attention. Not sure if he's been mentioned here yet. He seems to match up pretty well to Victim no.10, but he could possibly be another one of Gacy's unidentified victims.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/10913/120/

Compared to Victim no.10:

• Age is within the 17 - 21 range
• Height is within the 5'7 - 5'11 range
• Hair is curly. Rickey's hair is listed as blonde while UID's is brown, but those errors aren't uncommon, especially with older cases like this
• Circumstances are pretty eerie. ''According to family members, Rickey left the house with an unknown individual in a vehicle with Illinois plates. He did not take any personal belongings with his, and told his father he would be back soon. The family has not heard from him since.''
• Race matches
• I think Rickey resembles the facial reconstruction

The only big discrepancy I can see is that Victim no.10 is estimated to have died between July 1975 and April 1976, and Rickey is listed as disappearing in June 1977.

The thing about it is that the date of death accuracy was considered really low for victim #10. I don't know if they've found a better accuracy through some scientific testing, but basically it's a guess. When the victim was found he was described as "Skeletal remains." Which, if he died in Early July of 1977 and was found in late December of 1978, would be considered plenty of time.

The only problem is Ricky doesn't have dental information available even though he has DNA, John Doe only has dental information available.

I wonder if there's going to be some sort of push to fund the exhumation of the John Does to get DNA evidence. Because dentals can and often are quite off, but DNA is a lot harder to get wrong.

 

[Migmuu]

The thing about it is that the date of death accuracy was considered really low for victim #10. I don't know if they've found a better accuracy through some scientific testing, but basically it's a guess. When the victim was found he was described as "Skeletal remains." Which, if he died in Early July of 1977 and was found in late December of 1978, would be considered plenty of time.

The only problem is Ricky doesn't have dental information available even though he has DNA, John Doe only has dental information available.

I wonder if there's going to be some sort of push to fund the exhumation of the John Does to get DNA evidence. Because dentals can and often are quite off, but DNA is a lot harder to get wrong.

It'd be great to see the bodies exhumed. It's been almost 35 years since the bodies were found, forensics has improved a lot sine then and I'm sure forensic anthropologists today would be able to find out more clues that the examiners 3 1/2 decades ago weren't able to. And maybe the DNA they get will help to finally identify these victims. Their friends and families have been waiting long enough.

Do you think Rickey Enochs is a good enough hunch to e-mail the people in charge of the case about?

 

[EmmaliLucia]

It'd be great to see the bodies exhumed. It's been almost 35 years since the bodies were found, forensics has improved a lot sine then and I'm sure forensic anthropologists today would be able to find out more clues that the examiners 3 1/2 decades ago weren't able to. And maybe the DNA they get will help to finally identify these victims. Their friends and families have been waiting long enough.

Do you think Rickey Enochs is a good enough hunch to e-mail the people in charge of the case about?

I would do it.

Because really at worst, they'd exhume the bodies and get DNA and then find out it's not him, but the DNA would then be in CODIS and they probably would find out who it really is.

Or they'd tell you that they already ruled him out somehow.

 

[Migmuu]

All right, I left the investigator in charge of the unidentified victims' cases a voicemail asking for him to call me so I can give him Enochs's information. I want to speak to an actual person to give the information instead of relaying it over voicemail, so yeah ... I'll call them again tomorrow.

 

[Migmuu]

Their John Wayne Gacy hotline number (or whatever it is) kept sending me to its voicemail and I never got a call back, so I called the ME's office. The detective there was very nice and said the guy in charge of the Gacy investigation will get to me today or sometime in the next three days, and to call if I don't hear anything by Saturday.

 

[CarlK90245]

They finally got the remaining UID Gacy victims into NamUs:

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10994
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10998
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10999
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11000
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11001
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11006

Good luck trying to match them up to the DoeNet cases. Hardly anything is consistent comparing the NamUs UP case to the corresponding DoeNet UID case. The age estimates are different, the heights are different. The details are different.

 

[Migmuu]

They finally got the remaining UID Gacy victims into NamUs:

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10994
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10998
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10999
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11000
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11001
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11006

Good luck trying to match them up to the DoeNet cases. Hardly anything is consistent comparing the NamUs UP case to the corresponding DoeNet UID case. The age estimates are different, the heights are different. The details are different.

Do NamUs cases close automatically once a DNA match is found, or are they closed manually by the investigators in a case? If it's automatic, then that'd pretty much rule out Rickey Enochs as a potential match.

Also, on an unrelated note, did the September 16th NamUs update hide the circumstances of those listed on the IdentifyUs part of NamUs? I haven't seen circumstances for UID cases in weeks.

 

[CarlK90245]

Do NamUs cases close automatically once a DNA match is found, or are they closed manually by the investigators in a case? If it's automatic, then that'd pretty much rule out Rickey Enochs as a potential match.

No, they don't automatically close. The case manager needs to manually close it if there is a match.

Also, on an unrelated note, did the September 16th NamUs update hide the circumstances of those listed on the IdentifyUs part of NamUs? I haven't seen circumstances for UID cases in weeks.

No, they still show the circumstances. It's just that in quite a few casefiles, they don't bother to enter anything for circumstances.

 

[Migmuu]

No, they don't automatically close. The case manager needs to manually close it if there is a match.

No, they still show the circumstances. It's just that in quite a few casefiles, they don't bother to enter anything for circumstances.

Ah ok, thanks. Was wondering why I wasn't seeing circumstances on as many cases.

 

[Migmuu]

One of the detectives called me. I got off the phone with him a few minutes ago; here's the gist of the conversation:

1) He was already aware of WebSleuths and of Rickey Enochs. I didn't get to tell them about Enochs the first time I spoke to them a few weeks ago, so I'm assuming someone else on this forum called it in

2) Enochs has been effectively ruled out since both his - and the UID's - DNA are in the system

And 3) They haven't gotten any DNA hits on NamUs yet. But, he (the detective) has many leads and is pursuing every single one of them.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Investigation in Gacy case helps solve Chicago man's unrelated killing from 1978

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/2...-gacy-case-helps-solve-chicago-man-unrelated/

The Cook County Sheriff’s Office is scheduled to announce Wednesday, April 23, 2014, they have identified the remains found in a forest preserve in 2008 as those of 22-year-old Edward Beaudion of Chicago. Beaudion was identified after his relatives came forward to submit DNA samples as part of the effort to identify several of Gacy’s 1970s victims. Authorities believe Missouri resident Jerry Jackson killed Beaudion in 1978. But without a body at the time, they never charged him. Jackson died last year at age 62.