Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #5

[pocketaccent]

Thing is, there is little to no reason to believe he intended to sell her the car BEFORE she blew it up. It wasn't hers. It was his, and she was really really PO'd at him pretty much non-stop from mid-March on, if not before.

Also of interest is a little detail I think she told Flores by phone that she thought better of repeating afterwards. In that version she said SHE hooked up the BMW, and afterwards a UHaul employee opened a door on the BMW to check things out, told her all was good, and she drove off, kaboom.

Umm. What else would UHaul be checking for inside,other than to make sure the car was in neutral? So either the checking was a lie or after UHaul checked she took it out of neutral and put it into first gear.

Car payments? She never intended to pay him a cent and didn't. I've wondered if she blew it up in rage and/then to scam him, by trying to claim any insurance/UHaul payout.

BBM,
Not sure when but there were texts between JA and TA, where she learned TA's insurance covers passengers and others, not just TA. She seemed surprised to learn that the insurance follows the car, not the driver.

 

[TexMex]

Thing is, there is little to no reason to believe he intended to sell her the car BEFORE she blew it up. It wasn't hers. It was his, and she was really really PO'd at him pretty much non-stop from mid-March on, if not before.

Also of interest is a little detail I think she told Flores by phone that she thought better of repeating afterwards. In that version she said SHE hooked up the BMW, and afterwards a UHaul employee opened a door on the BMW to check things out, told her all was good, and she drove off, kaboom.

Umm. What else would UHaul be checking for inside,other than to make sure the car was in neutral? So either the checking was a lie or after UHaul checked she took it out of neutral and put it into first gear.

Car payments? She never intended to pay him a cent and didn't. I've wondered if she blew it up in rage and/then to scam him, by trying to claim any insurance/UHaul payout.

Why wouldn't he sell her the car before it was ruined? He already had the Prius. He was trying to help her IMO. When she ruined it he considered it hers, that she still owed him for. He was then nice enough to help her by contacting a lawyer to try and get a way for insurance to fix it for her, not him.
It makes no sense to ruin a car she could use once her car was repoed. She needed it. Not only for work but for occasional trips she could take to check up on Matt or Darryl or Ryan in Utah.
She did nothing but lie to Flores. My theory is that it goes against her self interest to intentionally ruin it

 

[TexMex]

Do you think she could have had the gun in the bedroom to coerce TA to have sex? In domestic violence, this is quite common. Coercive sex that is. If not the gun, she was holding something else over him that was coercive? Maybe that's why he threw the KY?

No. He had the camera taking pics of her. No weapon in sight. I don't think any weapons came out until he was seated in the shower, naked, wet and surrounded on three sides

 

[pocketaccent]

Why wouldn't he sell her the car before it was ruined? He already had the Prius. He was trying to help her IMO. When she ruined it he considered it hers, that she still owed him for. He was then nice enough to help her by contacting a lawyer to try and get a way for insurance to fix it for her, not him.
It makes no sense to ruin a car she could use once her car was repoed. She needed it. Not only for work but for occasional trips she could take to check up on Matt or Darryl or Ryan in Utah.
She did nothing but lie to Flores. My theory is that it goes against her self interest to intentionally ruin it

I don't think Travis ever had any intention to sell the BMW to her before March 29.
That is why she blew it up. That car was never going to be hers.

BTW, JA never mentions the BMW as 'my car' ever. She always calls it 'his car'. In the journal, texts, testimony, interviews......

ETA,
oops, she does call it her car on April 22. 'I love my car!!!!!'

 

[Hatfield]

Why wouldn't he sell her the car before it was ruined? He already had the Prius. He was trying to help her IMO. When she ruined it he considered it hers, that she still owed him for. He was then nice enough to help her by contacting a lawyer to try and get a way for insurance to fix it for her, not him.
It makes no sense to ruin a car she could use once her car was repoed. She needed it. Not only for work but for occasional trips she could take to check up on Matt or Darryl or Ryan in Utah.
She did nothing but lie to Flores. My theory is that it goes against her self interest to intentionally ruin it

That was my understanding too that TA was just trying to be nice to her to sell her his old one after hers got repoed. And wasn't there a text between TA and JA where TA said something about not getting a payment yet for the car loan. It seems I remember a text where TA was mad at her about not getting a payment yet.

I think he knew she would probably not be able to pay much on the car but he had probably hoped he would at least get some money from her for it.

I do wonder if the outstanding car loan was one of the reasons JA added to her list of reasons why he needed to die. She knew she would never be able to pay him all she owed him for it.

And by killing him the loan goes away and she tried to make it sound like he gave her the car as a gift. Just like his dog she tried to get.

Did we ever find out if the title was ever transferred into her name or did Travis retain the title of the vehicle until the loan was paid off.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I always thought the lubricant bottle on the bed looked more like Vaseline Intensive Care and not KY. Like this pic, but Juan said KY so I guess he would know better than I, and I have no desire to see those pics again.

 

[Hope4More]

We don't know for sure when she decided he was going to die. But two days after May 26th there was a "burglary" and whatever plan/fantasy she had prior was set in motion.

Travis was the one who called her...twice one 18 minutes and one call 41 minutes between 3 and 4am June 2.
It fits the pattern of her abuse and sociopathy towards him. She calls, leaves him messages, he finally calls back and she gets her hooks in once again.

She arrived in Mesa about the time...4am..that it would take her to drive from Pasadena (with he hour time difference). It doesn't matter if he knew she was coming, if the dog barked, if they watched YouTube together or what time they woke up. What matters is she weasels her way in and he lets her stay. IMO Would I like to know every detail? Sure. But we can't.

The pics that day are the proof that he did let his guard down, let her stay (however she got there) then had sex with her. If he were afraid or still hostile and "done" with her he would have called a friend or the cops when she came into his house. IMO the hour they spoke on June 2nd served to put him more at ease with her with her. Not saying he was wanting to date her again. Just be "friendly" for a few hours til she left.

I too think he meant what he said on May 26 but by June 4 she was in his bed. A pattern that had repeated through the 20 months they knew each other.

One last round time around the mulberry bush on this with you, gal.

Just for the sake of argument, look at this possibility. May 25-26 was about her threatening him --INDIRECTLY--with the bishop and sex tape. And the reason for her doing so wasn't because she had any intention of doing either.

The way she left things on May 26 ON PURPOSE was with the threat still hanging over him...out of her control, she was waiting tohear back from the cops about her stolen Helio, whatever.

He finally called her back on June 2 because she had spent hours on and off calling and texting him, saying she had something to tell him. Of course he would have called her back.....at some point, and it took those hours for him to do so. He was home, on his phone, texting, so could have done so anytime.

And here's the sick beauty of it....who is Travis going to confide in about being threatened with this by her? NO ONE. Not even Regan or Michelle. And if she said when she ambushed him in his house that she had sex pics on the CD's she'd taken without his knowledge, or held something else over his head while she there...who is he going to call for help?

That's not pattern or once again. It's different.

I freely confess I'd like to know every last thing that happened from 4AM until she struck the first blow (then skip to) and what she did to clean up, etc, AND I confess I know we'll never know most of that (sealed docs?????). But IMO the when and how she snuck her way in does matter, because it speaks directly to TA's frame of mind.

Even the (fact) that they had sex on the 4th, if they did, doesn't necessarily mean he let his guard down, if you mean by that he decided he could trust her or that he wanted to have sex with her for old times sake or whatever.

What I think of when I imagine Travis on June 4, is LE's advice to women being threatened by a potential rapist (when there's no chance to get away): trust your gut, don't do anything to provoke him, understand that living through the experience is the objective and everything else is secondary, appease to stay alive.

 

[TexMex]

 

[Hope4More]

Why wouldn't he sell her the car before it was ruined? He already had the Prius. He was trying to help her IMO. When she ruined it he considered it hers, that she still owed him for. He was then nice enough to help her by contacting a lawyer to try and get a way for insurance to fix it for her, not him.
It makes no sense to ruin a car she could use once her car was repoed. She needed it. Not only for work but for occasional trips she could take to check up on Matt or Darryl or Ryan in Utah.
She did nothing but lie to Flores. My theory is that it goes against her self interest to intentionally ruin it

"When she ruined it he considered it hers." After, you mean?


I spent hours pulling together everything available about the BMW and posted it here. It's back aways in this thread. IMO it kinda answered the question about whether or not she blew it up by accident.

 

[TexMex]

One last round time around the mulberry bush on this with you, gal.

Just for the sake of argument, look at this possibility. May 25-26 was about her threatening him --INDIRECTLY--with the bishop and sex tape. And the reason for her doing so wasn't because she had any intention of doing either.

The way she left things on May 26 ON PURPOSE was with the threat still hanging over him...out of her control, she was waiting tohear back from the cops about her stolen Helio, whatever.

He finally called her back on June 2 because she had spent hours on and off calling and texting him, saying she had something to tell him. Of course he would have called her back.....at some point, and it took those hours for him to do so. He was home, onhisphone, texting, so could have done so anytime.

That's not pattern or once again. It's different.

I freely confess I'd like to know every last thing that happened from 4AM until she struck the first blow (then skip to) and what she did to clean up, etc, AND I confess I know we'll never know most of that (sealed docs?????). But IMO the when and how she snuck her way in does matter, because it speaks directly to TA's frame of mind.

Even the (fact) that they had sex on the 4th, if they did, doesn't necessarily mean he let his guard down, if you mean by that he decided he could trust her or that he wanted to have sex with her for old times sake or whatever.

What I think of when I imagine Travis on June 4, is LE's advice to women being threatened by a potential rapist (when there's no chance to get away): trust your gut, don't do anything to provoke him, understand that living through the experience is the objective and everything else is secondary, appease to stay alive.

To me it's exactly the pattern of the relationship. She is obsessive and drives him crazy. He gets so frustrated with her antics he finally explodes. There is a cooling off period. Finally she starts up again...texts, calls..and before you know it they're on the phone for an hour. She seizes the opening, but his time instead of some new scheme to try and get attention from him she murders him. That was the only difference in this cycle and the many other times he'd told her to never call him again. Classic borderline behavior

She couldn't hold a weapon on him bent over on his bed. The sex was her final insult to him. Laughing at him while knowing she had a knife to use on him later. The only appeasement by him IMO was when he agreed to the shower pics.



(I'm a guy, not a gal btw!) :groucho:

 

[TexMex]

"When she ruined it he considered it hers." After, you mean?


I spent hours pulling together everything available about the BMW and posted it here. It's back aways in this thread. IMO it kinda answered the question about whether or not she blew it up by accident.

I meant he already considered it her car before it was ruined on the UHaul. That in his mind they had an agreement and it was her car. But he naturally felt bad for her and attempted to help out by contacting a lawyer for advice on if UHaul was responsible and insurance could fix it for her.

 

[Wing Ding]

It makes no sense to ruin a car she could use once her car was repoed. She needed it. Not only for work but for occasional trips she could take to check up on Matt or Darryl or Ryan in Utah. My theory is that it goes against her self interest to intentionally ruin it

Her "self-interest" is a perfect description. Revenge and hate are part of her psychopathy, but I also think "self-interest" and material gain are also part of her psychopathy. And maybe especially material gain at the expense of someone she hates.

 

[Hope4More]

BBM,
Not sure when but there were texts between JA and TA, where she learned TA's insurance covers passengers and others, not just TA. She seemed surprised to learn that the insurance follows the car, not the driver.

I wonder if that's the same text I remember as well. IIRC she asked him-are you sure your (BMW) insurance covers passengers? It was a weird text, kinda unrelated to what was going on...

 

[Hope4More]

To me it's exactly the pattern of the relationship. She is obsessive and drives him crazy. He gets so frustrated with her antics he finally explodes. There is a cooling off period. Finally she starts up again...texts, calls..and before you know it they're on the phone for an hour. She seizes the opening, but his time instead of some new scheme to try and get attention from him she murders him. That was the only difference in this cycle and the many other times he'd told her to never call him again. Classic borderline behavior

She couldn't hold a weapon on him bent over on his bed. The sex was her final insult to him. Laughing at him while knowing she had a knife to use on him later. The only appeasement by him IMO was when he agreed to the shower pics.



(I'm a guy, not a gal btw!) :groucho:

I totally and utterly withdraw the "gal" then, my bad, but as for the rest.....staying behind the mulberry bush, no more chasing around it. We disagree. I'm not gonna agree with you, and you're not agree with me, and the part I like best about that, Mister, is that we both still care enough about what happened to be here disagreeing.

 

[Wing Ding]

I don't think Travis ever had any intention to sell the BMW to her before March 29.
That is why she blew it up. That car was never going to be hers.

BTW, JA never mentions the BMW as 'my car' ever. She always calls it 'his car'. In the journal, texts, testimony, interviews......

ETA,
oops, she does call it her car on April 22. 'I love my car!!!!!'

At the risk of running this topic into the ground, he may not have had any intention to sell his BMW to JAA. Even so, I'm still not so quick to point the finger at her for deliberately FUBARing it out of psychopathy or Red Mist. Ignorance and/or the lack of understanding all things mechanical still works for me, though.

Re: oops: I wonder how trustworthy anything in her journal is? As with seemingly everything else in her journal, her written words are open to interpretation. She may have only written "my car" for what she believed to be legal reasons, as if to somehow validate her claim of legal ownership after after FUBARing it -- I mean "buying it" -- from Travis (especially if there was never a state-specific bill of sale form from the Arizona DMV and paperwork generated afterwords at the Yreka DMV). Because when you're in the beginning stages of killing someone, that's a lot of extra work, ya know! But it's my car. See? It says so right here in my journal!

 

[salberg7]

Good points above about whether or not she purposefully wrecked the Beemer. It just dawned on me that another theory could be that he was simply loaning her the car until she got back to Yreka and got herself settled. There is no mention of his selling it to her until after it was destroyed. Travis had mentioned to Chris Hughes that he was going to sell it on Auto Trader. Or do we even know she was taking the car back to Yreka, and that was already decided? If that was the case though, why didn't he just drive her to pick up the UHaul? How did she come to even have the BMW at all? These are more questions we'll never know. I can't see her hooking up the car to the UHaul herself. As a woman, I would never figure that hook up out - I'd charm someone into helping me.
Maybe there was some agreement between them regarding his car. But whether it was for her to just borrow it for awhile or to buy it eventually we'll never know. The fact that Travis spoke to Chris about Auto Trader puts a different spin on this as well.
But our discussion here does make me rethink my original theory of whether or not she intentionally wrecked it, as that wouldn't be to her advantage.

 

[Hope4More]

At the risk of running this topic into the ground, he may not have had any intention to sell his BMW to JAA. Even so, I'm still not so quick to point the finger at her for deliberately FUBARing it out of psychopathy or Red Mist. Ignorance and/or the lack of understanding all things mechanical still works for me, though.

Re: oops: I wonder how trustworthy anything in her journal is? As with seemingly everything else in her journal, her written words are open to interpretation. She may have only written "my car" for what she believed to be legal reasons, as if to somehow validate her claim of legal ownership after after FUBARing it -- I mean "buying it" -- from Travis (especially if there was never a state-specific bill of sale form from the Arizona DMV and paperwork generated afterwords at the Yreka DMV). Because when you're in the beginning stages of killing someone, that's a lot of extra work, ya know! But it's my car. See? It says so right here in my journal!

Very little of what she wrote in her journal is trustworthy. She lied to herself and was delusional even before she began writing post-murder entries wholesale for LE to read.

She lied in the BMW entry. For certain, at least about one thing. Travis did not take her to that special pizza place after she blew up his car. So why would she say he did?

Any answer is a matter of opinion, and likely influenced by whether or not one believes TA intended to sell it to her.

I think she lied about it to downplay how angry TA actually was. How could the dude NOT be upset and angry? Even if he didn't blame her? He's pissed off enough with her to hang up on her-twice- the next day, and to tell her off, though by then she had gone ahead and blown up his PPL quota too.

As for HER response in the journal? That it was "OK " with her if the damage wasn't covered and she was out the $6k? LOL. She resented like hell being asked to repay a few hundreds of dollars she "borrowed" from him..

Hmm. Actually, why would she be out $6k if the insurance co. doesn't pay for the damages? TRAVIS is out the $6k, not her. Right?


Out of curiosity, why do you think she texted TA twice about getting new tires for "your" BMW that already had brand new tires?

If TA had agreed to let her tow the BMW to Yreka as hers, without giving him any money for it whatsoever, why would she talk to him about putting tires on "her"car, much less call it "your" car, even forgetting the BMW didn't need tires?

Though she said in her journal she DID buy tires for it.

IMO she was there at Discount Tires- if she went there at all- to put tires on her Infiniti, which pissed her off because in her mind the BMW should have been hers.

(But I don't think even the thought lying in her journal would give her legal standing).

 

[knt]

"Are those man *advertiser censored* or are you just ripped?"

Wow. Rude. I remember there was a text from TA to JA telling her what she posted on DJ's Facebook made her look like a "pure *advertiser censored*". Is the "man *advertiser censored*" post what TA was reacting to? Makes much more sense now. I had always incorrectly assumed JA said something flirtatious to DJ and TA seemed to be acting jealous. In reality she was being a pure b*tch, not a *advertiser censored*.

 

[Hope4More]

Geevee..I've been rereading through BK's trial logs for PP2 (comprehensive notes for each day of trial).

The Helio as issue came up at the end of day 1, and again on day 2.

JM claimed he had agreed that the recording was authentic, but had never stipulated to the DT's claim it had been "stolen." Nurmi...blah blah not our fault you never chose to examine it..blah blah.

Of interest? JM then says something like...."we need to hear the "whole " thing before.....". (As in, all segments of the tape? Or....maybe this was about the May 2 text to herself?)

(BK said it was the discussion was difficult to follow because context was omitted).

Also....In response to a juror's question Melendez said he didn't know whether or not the the Helio recording was made on an "laptop application."

 

[knt]

Though she said in her journal she DID buy tires for it.

IMO she was there at Discount Tires- if she went there at all- to put tires on her Infiniti, which pissed her off because in her mind the BMW should have been hers.
.

Two thoughts about the tires. She wouldn't put tires on the Infiniti because it was about to be repossessed. We know TA had two new tires (after slashing). Maybe the other two tires needed replacing. But no way JA had the funds for that. The texts about being at the tire store sound like she's hinting... for TA to take care of the cost of two new tires.