Theories #1: What Happened to Jennifer Kesse?

[Rust Cohle]

2 phones, pinging off from two different towers can be explained by 2 phones having 2 different carriers. In 2006, cell coverage was still in its infancy, and dropping calls were a daily occurrence as the phones held onto towers long after they should have. Towers were not shared like they are now days, it was the wild, wild west with Telco.

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[rd_jfc]

2 phones, pinging off from two different towers can be explained by 2 phones having 2 different carriers. In 2006, cell coverage was still in its infancy, and dropping calls were a daily occurrence as the phones held onto towers long after they should have. Towers were not shared like they are now days, it was the wild, wild west with Telco.

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agreed, but two phones pinging off different towers is trivial for whoever made this statement to Drew to understand. How can she be in two places at once (going by memory here, I believe that is roughly what was said to Drew) indicates not understanding how the same phone pinged back and forth off two different towers in a short amount of time.

If it's the pings of two phones involved, the statement would be how did Jennifer and the cell phone she was attempting to send get separated, or something along those lines.

 

[Rust Cohle]

agreed, but two phones pinging off different towers is trivial for whoever made this statement to Drew to understand. How can she be in two places at once (going by memory here, I believe that is roughly what was said to Drew) indicates not understanding how the same phone pinged back and forth off two different towers in a short amount of time.

If it's the pings of two phones involved, the statement would be how did Jennifer and the cell phone she was attempting to send get separated, or something along those lines.

Right. In a nutshell, the cell phone pings are not credible.

 

[Truth Prevails]

agreed, but two phones pinging off different towers is trivial for whoever made this statement to Drew to understand. How can she be in two places at once (going by memory here, I believe that is roughly what was said to Drew) indicates not understanding how the same phone pinged back and forth off two different towers in a short amount of time.

If it's the pings of two phones involved, the statement would be how did Jennifer and the cell phone she was attempting to send get separated, or something along those lines.

BBM - This is close to they way I take it. (I think.)

Say one believed firmly, absolutely, and without a single shred of doubt that Jenn never left her condo unit on the evening of the 23rd. Then suppose evidence arose implying either Jenn's cell phone or Travis' cell phone pinged from another tower, clearly pointing to the fact that the phones were moving on the evening of the 23rd.

Jenn could not have been in two places at once. So she was home and the information indicating movement must be wrong. Right?

I don't think so. But I have hope LE really sought confirmation, found it, and have it on file.

The pings are a special thorn for me because I'm of the opinion that they may have happened just before the powering off/going dead event. If so, it would offer indication that Jenn had been abducted on the evening of the 23rd and secreted away from her condo right then--just after she spoke to her current boyfriend.

If there were no ping or pings, but only the powering off/going dead event at 10:40, then my theory might be that the intruder had entered and disabled the phones on the evening of the 23rd, and took some time?

 

[rd_jfc]

Right. In a nutshell, the cell phone pings are not credible.

well, they are credible. It is what it is. Actually pings from same phone to two different towers triangulates the area if you will, in the sense that the phone is in the transmission distance of both towers. Now that can mean not a whole heck of a lot when the general rule of within a mile and half is broken with some longer distance connection under some ideal circumstances (flat land, no impediments, etc.) but it does mean quite a bit, whatever it was.

 

[rd_jfc]

BBM - This is close to they way I take it. (I think.)

Say one believed firmly, absolutely, and without a single shred of doubt that Jenn never left her condo unit on the evening of the 23rd. Then suppose evidence arose implying either Jenn's cell phone or Travis' cell phone pinged from another tower, clearly pointing to the fact that the phones were moving on the evening of the 23rd.

Jenn could not have been in two places at once. So she was home and the information indicating movement must be wrong. Right?

I don't think so. But I have hope LE really sought confirmation, found it, and have it on file.

The pings are a special thorn for me because I'm of the opinion that they may have happened just before the powering off/going dead event. If so, it would offer indication that Jenn had been abducted on the evening of the 23rd and secreted away from her condo right then--just after she spoke to her current boyfriend.

If there were no ping or pings, but only the powering off/going dead event at 10:40, then my theory might be that the intruder had entered and disabled the phones on the evening of the 23rd, and took some time?

Pushing that thought to its conclusion, the phones disabled can be thought of as pings without other real pings involved if as I speculated awhile back in another thread that there could be a signoff type signal which marks the 10:40 pm time. I did some searching at that time and couldn't come up with anything definitive on that. The alternative is relatively frequent pings from both phones with the last one from both at 10:40 pm.

There's not really any room for false positives in this. The cell phone and tower(s) are sending ID numbers back and forth to each other essentiallly updating the carrier what tower to send a phone call (or text messsage, etc.) if a call is made to your phone.

A phone is going to see signals from multiple towers including towers from other carriers and decides what tower to respond to. But pushing to limit here, let's say there was no other pings between 9:57 pm and 10:40 pm, and there's an indication that both phones are disabled at 10:40 pm but at towers a few miles apart. Then a statement how can she be in two places at once I would say based on both phones disabled at same time but different locations there would definitely be puzzlement there.

I don't know, I'd hate to see Drew being told some stuff based on next to nothing that we're trying to make sense of, but if there are pings and multiple towers involved I don't see how police could be talking about anything but where Jennifer went between 10 and 10:40 pm.

 

[marable]

There is no evidence to suggest Jen left her condo that night.

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If we can believe that her cell and Travis' cell pinged AWAY from her condo Monday night <modsnip> then I believe that this is strong evidence that she was probably with her cell phone when it pinged away from her condo....

 

[marable]

If we can believe that her cell and Travis' cell pinged AWAY from her condo Monday night <modsnip> then I believe that this is strong evidence that she was probably with her cell phone when it pinged away from her condo....

RD,

What could be the reason that the OPD would not release the ping details and the phones being turned off with the batteries presumably removed around 10:40 pm UNLESS it would implicate someone who they believe to be the suspect? Your thoughts?

 

[Truth Prevails]

well, they are credible. It is what it is. Actually pings from same phone to two different towers triangulates the area if you will, in the sense that the phone is in the transmission distance of both towers. Now that can mean not a whole heck of a lot when the general rule of within a mile and half is broken with some longer distance connection under some ideal circumstances (flat land, no impediments, etc.) but it does mean quite a bit, whatever it was.

BBM--Wow, if this turns out to be true. It would be interesting to see if the searches they did fit into this area.

Pushing that thought to its conclusion, the phones disabled can be thought of as pings without other real pings involved if as I speculated awhile back in another thread that there could be a signoff type signal which marks the 10:40 pm time. I did some searching at that time and couldn't come up with anything definitive on that. The alternative is relatively frequent pings from both phones with the last one from both at 10:40 pm.

Okay. I think there is some stuff here that I'm not getting, but I'm pleased to keep trying.

There's not really any room for false positives in this. The cell phone and tower(s) are sending ID numbers back and forth to each other essentiallly updating the carrier what tower to send a phone call (or text messsage, etc.) if a call is made to your phone.

This I understand.

A phone is going to see signals from multiple towers including towers from other carriers and decides what tower to respond to. But pushing to limit here, let's say there was no other pings between 9:57 pm and 10:40 pm, and there's an indication that both phones are disabled at 10:40 pm but at towers a few miles apart. Then a statement how can she be in two places at once I would say based on both phones disabled at same time but different locations there would definitely be puzzlement there.

Ahhh. I think I get this--it would be as if Jenn left her condo with only one phone. At 10:40 PM both phones transmitted their final signal from different locations. It would indicate that Jenn was in two different locations at 10:40 PM, but was somehow able to turn both phones off at exactly the same time.

I don't know, I'd hate to see Drew being told some stuff based on next to nothing that we're trying to make sense of, but if there are pings and multiple towers involved I don't see how police could be talking about anything but where Jennifer went between 10 and 10:40 pm.

I'm concerned the two investigations may have stymied each other.

 

[rd_jfc]

RD,

What could be the reason that the OPD would not release the ping details and the phones being turned off with the batteries presumably removed around 10:40 pm UNLESS it would implicate someone who they believe to be the suspect? Your thoughts?

marable, my thoughts are that LE is going to hold details close to the vest unless they thought releasing the information could lead to tips from the public. I'd say that they'd rather have a tip that corresponds with their ping information than give out the ping information and get tips that a white van was seen in the area. They'd have to think they were going to get new relevant information to release any details. It's a tough call.

They waited a number of years to tell her parents some info, and that's with a lot of urging from the parents on reviewing the case. It was 2015 when Drew mentioned it in Guestbook.

I don't think the pinged tower locations could implicate anyone. At very best you could have a multi-tower progression from Millenial Mall area to say toward Windemere or something, in which case it would be clear the phones were transported in that directrion before going dead. I just don't think they have anything like that or they would indicate they believe she drove to Windemere, etc.

It sounds like it bounced back and forth between some local towers and that's all they have. In which case there's not anything useful to divulge.

Still I would think Kesses would press to get an independent analysis of what's known, and maybe they have.

 

[Rust Cohle]

LE are uncertain about the pings, hence them asking if Jen "would" have mailed the phone that night, which might corroborate the pings. She didn't receive any calls between 10 and 10:40, so a last minute meetup with someone was unlikely, so it leaves us with an impromptu visit by someone and a staged scene, possible I guess, but unlikely.

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[Shin Masamura]

Or, say a stalker. Maybe someone from her gym, or a pub she went to often. Someone who felt she had rejected him, but in reality she hardly knew he existed. Those kind of people will stalk, and stalk, and stalk, until they know a lot about the person. Where she lived wouldn't have been a problem. I just mention this because it seems planned

I should clarify, Ashes.. here is a photo book someone post stills from 48 hours years ago, it has some stills and info that is interesting since we've been spinning our wheels

http://s846.photobucket.com/user/jjkimages/library/?sort=3&page=1

 

[megmac22]

http://s846.photobucket.com/user/jjkimages/library/?sort=3&page=1

Does anyone else see in the picture called "living room towards kitch" some blankets folded up on the arm of the couch as though someone slept on the couch and folded up blankets the next morning? I'm sure it means nothing and who knows if that's even how it looked upon entry but that struck me. Thank you for posting these - I hadn't seen them before. On one of the programs posted on the newer thread, there's a still shot of Jennifer's kitchen and there's some NyQuil sitting on the counter, which used to make me think she had taken some Monday night and was maybe groggy and out of it Tuesday morning, but in these pictures, it's not there.

 

[marable]

The blankets could have been left there by her brother or his friends after staying at Jennifer's condo for a few days....

 

[megmac22]

The blankets could have been left there by her brother or his friends after staying at Jennifer's condo for a few days....

Thanks, marable - you're right of course. Sometimes I get so focused obsessing over the minutiae of little details that I forget the big picture and details we DO know as facts.


Did everyone listen to the podcast last night? Joyce mentioned she knows Jennifer was wearing her "alligator pumps" when she was abducted because she had just purchased them and they were not in her closet. Perhaps another clue pointing a morning abduction? I know as a woman I would not wear heels like that except to work or a night on the town. Also Joyce clarified that the dog followed the scent from the HOG back to the BACK staircase of Jennifer's condo that overlooks a pond - not to her parking space. Just a few things I've been thinking about.

 

[rd_jfc]

Thanks, marable - you're right of course. Sometimes I get so focused obsessing over the minutiae of little details that I forget the big picture and details we DO know as facts.


Did everyone listen to the podcast last night? Joyce mentioned she knows Jennifer was wearing her "alligator pumps" when she was abducted because she had just purchased them and they were not in her closet. Perhaps another clue pointing a morning abduction? I know as a woman I would not wear heels like that except to work or a night on the town. Also Joyce clarified that the dog followed the scent from the HOG back to the BACK staircase of Jennifer's condo that overlooks a pond - not to her parking space. Just a few things I've been thinking about.

My thoughts on that is that new shoes that Jennifer talked about buying probably was taken on the weekend trip, might have been worn Monday unless this known not to be true, and I've seen posts that suggested she kept the shoes she was wearing for work in the car, not necessarily carrying them back inside each night.

All of that is entirely speculation, but it makes just as much sense as Jennifer chose to wear these shoes on Tuesday and therefore went to work Tuesday morning.

 

[Valiant]

My only thoughts are either:
1) She was abducted in the parking lot. That's why her car was taken. But the perp needed to get back to that area, either for his own car or because he lived nearby.
or
2) She was abducted elsewhere by someone who knew her. Because that person knew her, he knew where she lived and returned the car to the area in which she lived for whatever reason.

In any other case, I think the car would have been dumped somewhere else, not close back to her condo.

 

[Truth Prevails]

The blankets could have been left there by her brother or his friends after staying at Jennifer's condo for a few days....

I noticed the white towel is folder over the bathroom sink. As of now, everyone assumes it was found spread out over the washer. I'm not sure but I think some of those pictures were "staged" for the piece on Jennifer. Also, I think Jenn's parents and others began staying in Jenn's condo beginning the night of the 24th.

Still, your point is very valid. The boys could have left them there; but, I think many others also could have left them there by the time of the mini documentary.

Thanks, marable - you're right of course. Sometimes I get so focused obsessing over the minutiae of little details that I forget the big picture and details we DO know as facts.


Did everyone listen to the podcast last night? Joyce mentioned she knows Jennifer was wearing her "alligator pumps" when she was abducted because she had just purchased them and they were not in her closet. Perhaps another clue pointing a morning abduction? I know as a woman I would not wear heels like that except to work or a night on the town. Also Joyce clarified that the dog followed the scent from the HOG back to the BACK staircase of Jennifer's condo that overlooks a pond - not to her parking space. Just a few things I've been thinking about.

I just got a chance to give it a quick listen. We think we get something straight, and then we find out even that is not correct. Drats. :tantrum:

My thoughts on that is that new shoes that Jennifer talked about buying probably was taken on the weekend trip, might have been worn Monday unless this known not to be true, and I've seen posts that suggested she kept the shoes she was wearing for work in the car, not necessarily carrying them back inside each night.

All of that is entirely speculation, but it makes just as much sense as Jennifer chose to wear these shoes on Tuesday and therefore went to work Tuesday morning.

I'm leaning this way. One thing I noted was that Mrs. Kesse said Jennifer had chosen a few outfits in beige tones to look good with the brown of her new and missing heels. Well, if you notice the clothes on the back of the chair in various photos that Joyce Kesse says were what Jennifer wore to work on Monday, you will see a beige skirt. (Also, maybe of note--Jenn seems to be wearing that skirt in some of the pictures of her and Rob on vacation.)

So, I thought the beige skirt goes well with the shoes being worn Monday to work and maybe left in the car. Could the shoes be something that the perpetrator choose to save as a memento? You know, the way pervs do that kind of stuff? (Since we are purely speculating.)

My only thoughts are either:
1) She was abducted in the parking lot. That's why her car was taken. But the perp needed to get back to that area, either for his own car or because he lived nearby.

I'll just spar a little bit for speculating purposes. I hope you won't mind.

If a crew of 5 men arrived as regular as clock work to do grounds keeping at 7:30 AM every Tuesday; and it was said Jenn regularly left for work as regular as clock work between 7:30 AM and 8:00 AM--how could none of them have seen her?

What about Mrs. Kesse saying no one in the ground floor condos heard her scream? Now, I don't know how many condos on the ground floor were occupied or anything, but if any were, Mrs. Kesse made a good point.

or
2) She was abducted elsewhere by someone who knew her. Because that person knew her, he knew where she lived and returned the car to the area in which she lived for whatever reason.

BBM - I'm not sure, but if you mean on the evening of the 23rd, Mrs. Kesse says that under no circumstances would Jenn leave her condo to go out alone in the later evening hours.

If you mean she left in her car for work on the morning of the 24th and was abducted before she got there, or in the parking lot of her work--all I'll say is that one of the very few things LE and Jenn's parents seem to agree on is that there is absolutely nothing, nothing, nothing to indicate that Jenn ever left for work.

Mr. Kesse has said more than once that it does not appear that Jenn's car was driven very far at all--only about 1.2 miles, straight to the HOG, is his implication.

In any other case, I think the car would have been dumped somewhere else, not close back to her condo.

Except it wasn't, though. So we are left with only why. Why there.

 

[scadagirl28]

Thanks Shin M for those pictures. I am still pondering and wish we had context for some. The right side of the car. Was she pinned in , did Mr.Inconspicuous Driver take a hard right against something metal ? The flashlight with the book on the counter. The outside chair tied to the railing . Something the boys did ?

 

[rd_jfc]

Mr. Kesse has said more than once that it does not appear that Jenn's car was driven very far at all--only about 1.2 miles, straight to the HOG, is his implication.

This is first I've seen mention of something specific like this, Truth. Jennifer would have driven her car to S. Florida and back to work, then home from work. How in the world would Mr. Kesse know what mileage was on the car when she got home unless Jennifer read it off to him at that 6:15 pm phone conversation. Not saying she didn't, maybe they had such a discussion for one reason or another concerning car maintenence or something, but barring a reading out to her dad of the mileage to the 1/10 of a mile on her odometer when she talked to her dad, how would he be able to determine this?

I don't want to say too much here because I must be misunderstanding what's being said here, just the driving nearly straight to HOTG borders on next to impossible. The possibilities are an apartment complex near HOTG where abductor took Jennifer and then later drove her car a short distance to HOTG and parked it, or left Mosaic a few minutes before noon and drove to HOTG and parked it. If the mileage put on it after she got home from work was really 1.2 miles, those are the possibilities.

In addition to not knowing how the mileage could have been determined, and certainly if there is some method then the details of that are critical, but in addition to that and the extremely low probability of those two possibilities of accomplishing it, note that this line of thought rules out Jennifer going out after 10 pm whatsoever. Personally I think that's what's driving that contention, but the small matter of where the car was between her abduction and noon is still very much an issue no matter what the contention of her not going back out.

So I'm baffled on every aspect of anything about her car driven just 1.2 miles.