Michelle Young, pregnant mom, murdered Part 17

[scandi]

it would seem to me if anyone was a material witness it could be the therapist because of the notes she's turned over to the LE perhaps from Michelle's session(s)

Hi Athy, Since she has given the prosecutor all the info, and ordered by a judge to do that with which she was in full compliance, I don't think she would mind testifying now. It is her civic duty, after all she worked with the victim in this case and wants justice for her family.

Scandi

PS: Hey, but what do I know! ;}

 

[jilly]

Nanandjim,

This warrant was returned today. According to Sheriff Harrison, they do not believe it had anything to do with Michelle's murder. This mallet was found on the edge of the lawn by a neighbor.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1373778/

Seems to me there was a lot of chatter about someone mowing jy's lawn and finding it there. Turns out it was the neighbor mowing her own lawn. Amazing how info gets twisted.

 

[raisincharlie]

Seems to me there was a lot of chatter about someone mowing jy's lawn and finding it there. Turns out it was the neighbor mowing her own lawn. Amazing how info gets twisted.

I posted another link from the N & O:

http://www.newsobserver.com/141/story/569673.html

12 inch metal mallet located in a location where it could have fallen from a passing work truck.


Yes, there is a whole lot of twisting going on.

 

[jilly]

I posted another link from the N & O:

http://www.newsobserver.com/141/story/569673.html

12 inch metal mallet located in a location where it could have fallen from a passing work truck.


Yes, there is a whole lot of twisting going on.

Oh Brother - Yes, I see this article says the neighbor was cutting jy's lawn. :crazy:

 

[athy]

Hi Athy, Since she has given the prosecutor all the info, and ordered by a judge to do that with which she was in full compliance, I don't think she would mind testifying now. It is her civic duty, after all she worked with the victim in this case and wants justice for her family.

Scandi

PS: Hey, but what do I know! ;}

hi scandi, true she wouldn't have to be arrested in order to be willing to testify to whatever her notes say. i'm sure she'd be glad to do it.

 

[scandi]

This looks as about as good a definition as any I read:

http://www.answers.com/topic/witness
Snippet
Material Witness: A witness whose testimony is not only relevant to the matter in issue, but also without which the matter may not be resolved. The government may hold a material witness, whether the victim or an eyewitness, against his or her will in order to insure his or her presence at trial. 18 U.S.C. §3144."

Does this mean then this MW can not take the 5th if he has a reason he doesn't want the info out there?

One definition I read said it has to be first hand information, which I guess is covered here as 'eyewitness'

 

[j2mirish]

:clap: :clap:

it would seem to me if anyone was a material witness it could be the therapist because of the notes she's turned over to the LE perhaps from Michelle's session(s)

good point athy--- very good point-

eta my bad, didnt realize a "material witness" seems to not want to be involved, and has to be forced... but still a great thought athy-

 

[raisincharlie]

This looks as about as good a definition as any I read:

http://www.answers.com/topic/witness
Snippet
Material Witness: a witness whose testimony is not only relevant to the matter in issue, but also without which the matter may not be resolved. The government may hold a material witness, whether the victim or an eyewitness, against his or her will in order to insure his or her presence at trial. 18 U.S.C. §3144."

Here is US Code:

18 U.S.C. § 3144, commonly referred to as the "material witness statute," provides as follows:

If it appears from an affidavit filed by a party that the testimony of a person is material in a criminal proceeding, and if it is shown that it may become impracticable to secure the presence of the person by subpoena, a judicial officer may order the arrest of the person and treat the person in accordance with the provisions of section 3142 of this title. No material witness may be detained because of inability to comply with any condition of release if the testimony of such witness can adequately be secured by deposition, and if further detention is not necessary to prevent a failure of justice. Release of a material witness may be delayed for a reasonable period of time until the deposition of the witness can be taken pursuant to the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.


Someone is still on the theory that Meredith and her boyfriend murdered Michelle and therefore Meredith is the material witness. The hope is LE will arrest her to get her to turn in her boyfriend. Not gonna happen IMO because it never happened to start with.
​

 

[scandi]

Oh Brother - Yes, I see this article says the neighbor was cutting jy's lawn. :crazy:

WOW, that would be one big hammer! 12' long + metal. That is something one would use to push spikes into a tree! Pretty heavy duty. I bet LE knew right away this was nothing like was used on Michelle.

 

[athy]

:clap: :clap:



good point athy--- very good point-

eta my bad, didnt realize a "material witness" seems to not want to be involved, and has to be forced... but still a great thought athy-

not all material witnesses don't wish to be involved. some have info that is relevant and are quite willing to. its the ones that don't want to testify that would be arrested, not the ones willing.

 

[jake]

A personal question for Jake:

Do you ever call your son-in-law by the moniker, "meathead"?

Never. Don't even use "in-law".

--Jake

 

[j2mirish]

not all material witnesses don't wish to be involved. some have info that is relevant and are quite willing to. its the ones that don't want to testify that would be arrested, not the ones willing.

then back to you again- that the therapist might very well be the one- good catch

 

[scandi]

Here is US Code:

18 U.S.C. § 3144, commonly referred to as the "material witness statute," provides as follows:

If it appears from an affidavit filed by a party that the testimony of a person is material in a criminal proceeding, and if it is shown that it may become impracticable to secure the presence of the person by subpoena, a judicial officer may order the arrest of the person and treat the person in accordance with the provisions of section 3142 of this title. No material witness may be detained because of inability to comply with any condition of release if the testimony of such witness can adequately be secured by deposition, and if further detention is not necessary to prevent a failure of justice. Release of a material witness may be delayed for a reasonable period of time until the deposition of the witness can be taken pursuant to the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.


Someone is still on the theory that Meredith and her boyfriend murdered Michelle and therefore Meredith is the material witness. The hope is LE will arrest her to get her to turn in her boyfriend. Not gonna happen IMO because it never happened to start with.
​

Thanks Charlie! That almost makes it sound like the witness is really hostile, if he would make it impracable for service to locate him.

Thinking Meredith or her BF would have any motive to murder Michelle is crazy. Why would anyone think this? If this were the case, they would be suspects and not material witnesses, right?

If we are referencing this to JY, I would think either his mother or sister who lives out of town might have info directly from his mouth to their ears that would qualify as first hand. Someone mentioned the phone call to the mother which would be first hand and the setting up of an alibi which would fit I think. Even possibly placing himself away from the crime scene on purpose so as to have no confrontation with LE so early after the murder might qualify depending on what he told her. I read he hasn't said much to anyone about that night, not even family.

But I think he has talked to his sister and Mom about this, if anyone. For one thing, I think he told his sister as JTF what to post!




Oh, I've missed posting here but there has been zip to nil that is happening. I hope Jake will give us a heads up on what he expects to happen in a couple of days that will break the case wide open. Scandi

 

[jake]

Interesting topic Jake!

Would you interpret 'material' as meaning 'having relevance' to a crime. Would there be any qualification on that witness. For instance; he saw something relevant to the crime, overheard two people talking about what happened, was told something about how the crime was committed or a confession, like something simply overcame him and he can not even remember doing it?

I would also wonder if there would have to be some reason the person might take the 5th, and if they are held until it is possible for them to give their testimony, then they will have to respond and can not escape testifying.

if they were family, a lover who was involved with this person at the time of the murder {the affair had not been broken off formally yet}, someone who was approached to assist after the crime, someone whose personal life might be jeopardized or financially dimmed by the association with a possible murderer; these could all be people who would then feel admitting something under oath that might be detrimental to their lives. It could also mean that these people would never want to say anything that could be used against this person, as they do not want to see him incarcerated for the rest of his life or be put to death, or that they might leave the area before served with a subpoena and then would be untouchable.

I really thought in America anyone could take the 5th at any time.


Scandi

I was thinking more like someone who saw the crime scene before it was cleaned up. Suppose that person saw something the police accidentally missed. Not likely, but suppose he/she did. Just wondering if that person could be arrested as a material witness.

--Jake

 

[jake]

Ok, Jake you know something. Spit it out!

You just pulled the material witness thing out of thin air first of all, then said someone in Jason's family maybe.

First thing that came to my mind was his mother with the info about the time arranged for him to visit Brevard. Last minute or whatever it turns out to be. I have several thoughts on the who and what since there are several possibilities. Then you brought up N&O and them doing a story so you obviously know something. I can't see anyone in his family voluntarily testifying about anything that would be incriminating to him but if it applied to someone else LE wouldn't need to arrest them would they?

The mother gave that info to LE the night/morning Jason returned to Raleigh. She had a long interview with LE.

No one in the family CAN testify to anything harmful to Jason. Really. Family and friends know nothing implicating Jason. Reckon that means no arrest as material witness?

--Jake

 

[athy]

I was thinking more like someone who saw the crime scene before it was cleaned up. Suppose that person saw something the police accidentally missed. Not likely, but suppose he/she did. Just wondering if that person could be arrested as a material witness.

--Jake

oh, you mean the sister that found the tooth after the LE went thru? no, she wouldn't be arrested as a material withness, especially since LE said the tooth was Michelle's and it was irrelevant. or did they find something else and still have it and haven't turned it into the LE?

 

[jake]

You don't know enough? Who quantifies enough, Jake?
I would think if you know anything at all, you could be a material witness. I'm just guessing though that you're concerned about Mrs. Young and, perhaps, Mr. McIntyre, Heather and her husband.

Even with our paranoia, Scout, we know nothing that would be harmful to Jason. Hard to believe, huh? We don't mind talking with LE.

--Jake

 

[raisincharlie]

In the event anyone is interested, there is a four part video on You Tube from the memorial service and tree planting:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=michelle+young&search=Search

 

[j2mirish]

I was thinking more like someone who saw the crime scene before it was cleaned up. Suppose that person saw something the police accidentally missed. Not likely, but suppose he/she did. Just wondering if that person could be arrested as a material witness.

--Jake

so is it likely le missed something or not jake- make up your mind--you dont trust them, yet you say not likely they missed something--- and who could a person at a crime scene be, present, before it is cleaned up, that would then have to be arrested to be a witness...oh my---my head is spinning--- LOL

 

[jake]

Hi Jake,

When you say something is about to break, do you mean a story or 6 month recap ? That would hardly be intuitive. Or do you mean something more ? Has the husband's or lawyer's PI come up with some breaking news ? Just curious, as the LE and DA don't seem to give a whit about giving the general public anything. Surely you agree ? Not a crumb of news for us to nibble on.

LE and DA are trying to catch a killer. If I knew anything that would help do that, I would have long ago shouted it to them.

Do you know something about a PI? Maybe the PI should help LE.

--Jake