Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #180

[snooptroop88]

Pretty sure it was determined early on that RA wasn't a pharmacist. Just a salesperson in the section that included the pharmacy. I'll see if I can find a source.

Big thanks on this, I was positive he was a pharmacist, but right, pharmacy "tech." I'm confused because I see this on a source, though: "Allen was once employed as a licensed pharmacy technician at the CVS in Delphi. He received his Indiana license to be a pharmacist in 2018, and it was still active when he was arrested in October 2022." Assuming just a tech, seeing this:
Required Qualifications

• Must be at least 16 years of age
• Licensure requirements vary by state
  ...
• Mathematical Reasoning
  o The ability to use math to solve a problem, such as calculating day’s supply of a prescription
• Problem Resolution
  o Is able to judge when something is wrong or is likely to go wrong; recognizing there is a problem
  o Choosing the best course of action when faced with a complex situation with several available options

Seeing this at Indiana Professional Licensing Agency/Pharmacy Tech:
Training: Has completed an Indiana Board approved training and education program or has passed an Indiana Board approved examination [currently there are two: PTCB or ExCPT,... If you have not yet completed training or passed an exam, you can submit an application (paper or online) indicating you wish to obtain a "technician in training permit".

And seeing this: Indiana. Indiana requires all pharmacy technicians to be certified and licensed. In order to be granted a pharmacy technician license in Indiana, applicants must be 18 years old, have a high school diploma or GED, pass the PTCB or NHA exam, pay a $25 registration fee, and pass a criminal background check.

Pharmacy Technician - Explore Health Care Careers - Mayo Clinic College of Medicine & Science

Mayo Clinic offers a Pharmacy Technician Program in Minnesota, Florida, Arizona and Wisconsin to prepare students for a career as a pharmacy technician.

college.mayo.edu

Pharmacy Technician - CVS

When you join CVS Health as a Pharmacy Technician, you gain access to endless opportunities for growth. Learn more about our opportunities in a variety of health care settings.

jobs.cvshealth.com

https://jobs.cvshealth.com/job/19812756/pharmacy-technician-dekalb-il/

Pharmacy Licensing Information

www.in.gov

Richard Allen case | Full timeline and events so far

A status hearing held in Fort Wayne on Thursday will allow Judge Francis Gull to address both the defense and prosecution ahead of Richard Allen's jury trial.

www.wthr.com

Seeing this for the PTCB exam:

What Is the Passing Score for the Pharmacy Technician Exam?​

The Pharmacy Technician Certification Exam (PTCE) employs a scaled scoring system. The score for the exam ranges between 1,000 and 1,600. To pass this credentialing examination, you need to attain a scaled score of 1,400 or above.

While this may seem challenging at first glance, the pharmacy technician final exam actually has an average pass rate of approximately 71%. This means that with the right preparation and dedication, candidates can achieve this score and get started on their careers in the pharmacy industry.
...------------------------------...
Seeing the ExCpt exam is arguably easier, but you need this to qualify to take this test instead:

In order to take the ExCPT exam, you must have you high school diploma or GED and meet one of the following:

1. Complete a pharmacy technician training/education program. If you've completed a pharmacy technician program in the last 5 years , you are eligible to take the ExCPT exam.
2. 1 year of work experience (minimum of 1,200 hours). If you've worked for at least a year as a pharmacy technician (minimum of 1,200 hours), you are also eligible to take the exam even if you have not gone to school.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Of course, NM failed to mention that RA got the COD incorrect and was likely in a psychotic state. The devil is indeed in the details .

It appears NM does have his own skeletons. Shameful.

 

[New Penny]

Thanks for this article. Do we know if it is true the FBI was “kicked off” the case circa 2021? I see the article you linked was from 2022. Was there ever an article that verified the FBI wasn’t working on the case 2021-2022?

From my faint memory: wasn’t the FBI “kicked off” (or opted to take a back seat or however you want to phrase it) due to losing the only footage from the Delphi Marathon Gas Station surveillance camera tape in the time frame that KK was purported to be meeting someone there in the parking lot? In the red jeep? The morning of the murders of those precious girls Libby and Abby

Mea Culpa in advance if I’m mistaken

 

[steeltowngirl]

From my faint memory: wasn’t the FBI “kicked off” (or opted to take a back seat or however you want to phrase it) due to losing the only footage from the Delphi Marathon Gas Station surveillance camera tape in the time frame that KK was purported to be meeting someone there in the parking lot? In the red jeep? The morning of the murders of those precious girls Libby and Abby

Mea Culpa in advance if I’m mistaken

I’m going with what Greg Massa said.

“To the community at large, 9 days ago, the FBI stood shoulder to shoulder with you. We’re not going anywhere. We will be here until this case is solved and I’m confident this case will be solved.”

 

[Ravenmoon]

Absolutely, but it wouldn't be intensive years of study at university like a pharmacist. They are different roles with completely different qualifications.

MOO

It's my understanding that RA was required to get his pharmacy tech certification in order to maintain his position as a manager at CVS.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Assistant Special Agent in Charge Greg Massa is who spoke at the 2/22/17 presser. He supervised and led the FBI’s criminal investigations across the state of Indiana. Early in the case he mentioned every night he would update the Deputy Assistant Director of the FBI and twice the Director of the FBI was briefed.

Page 10 of the Franks memo states in Holeman’s deposition that DC pulled the plug and kicked the FBI out around 2021 over some conflicts.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, I get what you're saying. But, if your school district was, say, awarded a huge grant to implement a program you'd been hoping to get started for years, I'd expect extra care and attention would be paid to ensure you pulled it off even better than "regular" school district activities. Not apples to apples of course, but with great responsibility comes great care!

That's all true. And when you are working on a big high priority project you all try your hardest to pay special attention.
But sometimes one stupid error, or a couple of tiny flubs can mess everything up.

Especially with jump drives and discs. Things can get corrupted inexplicably. We lost weeks worth of State Testing scores because of some corrupted discs and jump drives. BOTH the originals and the backups were from the same flawed batch. It was a horror show and very hard to explain without looking like we were all idiots.

Luckily we still had the original hard copies of all the tests--- the #6 pencil on paper versions. And they all needed to be recounted and resubmitted. It took weeks but it did force us to change the way we backed up our data.

I don't think what happened to our office 20+ years ago is going to happen again---but it's just an exAmple of how things can go wrong, even if everyone is trying hard to do their best. JMO

 

[Willow Knight]

From my faint memory: wasn’t the FBI “kicked off” (or opted to take a back seat or however you want to phrase it) due to losing the only footage from the Delphi Marathon Gas Station surveillance camera tape in the time frame that KK was purported to be meeting someone there in the parking lot? In the red jeep? The morning of the murders of those precious girls Libby and Abby

Mea Culpa in advance if I’m mistaken

Was it ever proven or stated by LE that there was footage from the Marathon? I wonder if talk about footage from the gas station was a tool to get KAK talking?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I have a dumb question, but I'm legitimately curious. When a person is charged with a crime, do their lawyers share all the discovery with them? Like, for instance, would a murder suspect get to see or read the autopsy reports, crime scene photos, things like that?

Not a dumb question at all T, yes the Defendant is entitled to see any information that the State has provided to his Defense team if he wants it.

jmo

 

[M. Kay]

He received his Indiana license to be a pharmacist in 2018, and it was still active when he was arrested in October 2022."

I remember when we were discussing RA's developing photos
at CVS. We recalled here that it was true he said "no charge"
for the family's photo order of the girls to Mike Patty. Have I missed post(s) reviving current interest in pharmacy per se?
Wouldn't photography be more likely related to the crime?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Also. lots of folks have mental illness and still hold jobs. Lots.

Of course they do, I never suggested otherwise nor do I judge anyone who does have a mental disability. I was just stating an opinion. RA seemed to be living the American dream, stable home life, paid off mortgage, nice vehicles, respectable job, friendly local pub pool players, etc.

But we often find out that these types of offenders are good at imitating what they want people to believe.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

A staged confession is a fascinating idea. I've been an attorney for 32 years, but don't work in criminal (other than some pro bono I've done), so maybe this happens. But on its face it seems unfathomable to me as a realistic strategy.

I agree - seems implausible.

I'd be much more inclined to believe that the accused decided to act crazy. Not a doctor (obvs!) but the whole faeces business could be contrived by someone who has limited ways to act out. Being psychotic doesn't necessarily mean you start doing that sort of thing.

 

[mrjitty]

For clarity, my confusion about lack of reference to the recorded confessions to family is that surely the same constitutional basis applies to their exclusion, even though they were legally recorded and otherwise admissible.

The defence assert in that latest memo that RA was subjected to an extended months long torment which should be seen as akin to your typical coercive interrogation. It led to a psychosis they say. So surely all the products of that should be excluded, even if legally recorded.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Assistant Special Agent in Charge Greg Massa is who spoke at the 2/22/17 presser. He supervised and led the FBI’s criminal investigations across the state of Indiana. Early in the case he mentioned every night he would update the Deputy Assistant Director of the FBI and twice the Director of the FBI was briefed.

Page 10 of the Franks memo states in Holeman’s deposition that DC pulled the plug and kicked the FBI out around 2021 over some conflicts.

Again, that is according to the FM and the D's statement of what Holeman said. I can't wait to actually read what was said verbatim.

MOO

 

[snooptroop88]

I agree - seems implausible.

I'd be much more inclined to believe that the accused decided to act crazy. Not a doctor (obvs!) but the whole faeces business could be contrived by someone who has limited ways to act out. Being psychotic doesn't necessarily mean you start doing that sort of thing.

Worried about this as well. It's not like he'd have to be a genius to know if he starts acting like this, nobody's going to be able to rely on what he says about many things, maybe anything. But it would take a certain type of mind to actually go this extra mile to prove madness. Unfortunately, it's the same type of mind that would be required to do what he's accused of to begin with. And the katana makes me nervous as well. That's a sword associated with seppuku, killing yourself to avoid dishonor at the hands of enemies, inspiring the "fall on one's sword" idea. Just noting, if this guy is actually BG, he is shielding his dangerousness and cruelty with craftiness. Is "Rick" really this crafty? You know, maybe? Everyone wants to believe he's not, but unfortunately, maybe he really is. Things might become more clear at the trial. MOO.

 

[sunshineray]

Assistant Special Agent in Charge Greg Massa is who spoke at the 2/22/17 presser. He supervised and led the FBI’s criminal investigations across the state of Indiana. Early in the case he mentioned every night he would update the Deputy Assistant Director of the FBI and twice the Director of the FBI was briefed.

Page 10 of the Franks memo states in Holeman’s deposition that DC pulled the plug and kicked the FBI out around 2021 over some conflicts.

Lots of state police officers clash and don't play that nicely with the FBI, historically. AJMO

 

[FromGermany1]

I agree - seems implausible.

I'd be much more inclined to believe that the accused decided to act crazy. Not a doctor (obvs!) but the whole faeces business could be contrived by someone who has limited ways to act out. Being psychotic doesn't necessarily mean you start doing that sort of thing.

Maybe, the feces-incident will help the prosecution, IF the alleged killer RA littered the crime scene. I remember the news article in 2017 with the statement, "biological DNA" was found. This part was deleted shortly thereafter and never appears in the reports again. What, if RA shot himself in the foot with this behavior?

 

[steeltowngirl]

​

Assistant Special Agent in Charge Greg Massa is who spoke at the 2/22/17 presser. He supervised and led the FBI’s criminal investigations across the state of Indiana. Early in the case he mentioned every night he would update the Deputy Assistant Director of the FBI and twice the Director of the FBI was briefed.

Page 10 of the Franks memo states in Holeman’s deposition that DC pulled the plug and kicked the FBI out around 2021 over some conflicts.

Adding in the rest of pg. 10. I’m still going with the FBI’s word vs. the FM.

Yet, law enforcement in charge of the Delphi investigation seemingly, and quickly, abandoned the obvious correlation between the crime scene and Odinism, despite an obscene amount of evidence linking Odinism to the crime scene, 8 Although, State Police Superintendent Doug Carter pulled the plug and kicked the FBI off the Delphi murder case around 2021 over some conflicts, according to Jerry Holeman.

Furthermore, he (Liggett) claimed to be unaware that the FBI was even kicked out, let alone that any agency had actually kicked out the FBI from investigating the Delphi case.

It is quite odd that the salient topic of Doug Carter kicking the FBI off of the Delphi case would never have been discussed between Liggett and Holeman who were working so closely with one another in Unified Command.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[FrostedGlass]

Journalists trying to do their job...
View attachment 496808

Regarding your attachment, reporter Ron Wilkins for Lafayette Journal & Courier knows his stuff. He is the one who filed the complaint against the ISP for refusing to release public records to him = Access to Public Records Act . It was through that complaint we learned the local prosecutor and the presiding judge were behind those records being sealed.

There is an interesting footnote in the opinion that I wish I had more info on:
Issued: February 10, 20233

3 This office held this opinion in abeyance until the court issued its most recent orders in this case

And here is something else I'm interested in and haven't been able to find.

ISP also cites the local prosecutor and presiding judge as factors in the delay. While that matter is being addressed in other opinions, it is notable that APRA’s daily log requirement for law enforcement is not a judicial record.

https://www.in.gov/pac/files/advisory/22-FC-157.pdf

 

[layer]

Although, State Police Superintendent Doug Carter pulled the plug and kicked the FBI off the Delphi murder case around 2021 over some conflicts, according to Jerry Holeman.

I wonder what these conflicts were between Carter and the FBI. This seems unusual (and idiotic) to me.