The Anthony Backyard *REVISITED*

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Trying to keep up here......In this photo (thanks for the link, Expecting!) of the two white trash bags, is the general consenus that the red stuff smeared on the bag is 1) on the outside of the bag? and 2) that it is red mulch?

I don't think there ever was a consensus! To me it looks like damp red mulch on the inside of the bag. But why do think there were two? I thought only one was in the trunk (and please note that the bag that the red stuff is in also has that pizza box; that makes me think it might be the one from the trunk and because of the time stamp of the photo). But why two? Any ideas?

 

[The Eunice Burns]

I don't think there ever was a consensus! To me it looks like damp red mulch on the inside of the bag. But why do think there were two? I thought only one was in the trunk (and please note that the bag that the red stuff is in also has that pizza box; that makes me think it might be the one from the trunk and because of the time stamp of the photo). But why two? Any ideas?

Thanks for the reply. I don't know, I am stumped. (Not hard to do....) I have studied that photo and I can't tell (to my eyes) if the red substance is on the inside or outside of the bag. I lean towards outside....Why two? is a great question. Hmmmm....okay......the bag w/ the red stuff w/ the pizza box in it.....do we have confirmation that it's the one LE confiscated that had been in the trunk?

 

[celticthyme]

a)

However, IMHO, there would be signficant decomp traces in the sandbox for the K9's had this been used...and there weren't. In the aerial views CSI actually appears to use the sandbox lid almost like a bucket to hold mulch as they scraped/scooped around the area. It also appears that they moved the sandbox to look under it but otherwise the mulch under it was not distrubed by CSI. FWIW, sand is heavy and Casey couldn't have moved it wholesale.
Respectfully snipped . .
BJB good thought . . but she could have used the lid to put the body in, to drag from point A to B. Also after trying to bury or put her underthe chips in the back corner, then realizing that would never fly, take the lid, move her to the "hit spot" and rinse off the dirt / chips from the body & lid. ?? ( Just trying to visualize here) :furious:
PS Good to have your great & amazing sleuthing mind back. Hope you had a great summer!

 

[gogrannypop]

Trying to keep up here......In this photo (thanks for the link, Expecting!) of the two white trash bags, is the general consenus that the red stuff smeared on the bag is 1) on the outside of the bag? and 2) that it is red mulch?

This just gave me a Big AHA! moment. It does look like smeared red mulch on the bag.

ETA~ But why would there be mulch from the A's back yard on a bag from KC's trunk. Now I have confuzzled myself.

 

[skygirl]

I don't think there ever was a consensus! To me it looks like damp red mulch on the inside of the bag. But why do think there were two? I thought only one was in the trunk (and please note that the bag that the red stuff is in also has that pizza box; that makes me think it might be the one from the trunk and because of the time stamp of the photo). But why two? Any ideas?

jmho- I think this pic was taken of the trash bag while it was still in the dumpster, before they removed it. Whatever that red/brown stuff that is on the bag, could have come from whatever was inside that dumpster. I think, the tow yard mgr. stated that when he thought to go out to the dumpster to get the bag, he had to go through many bags, but alas, never finding the actual bag-becase LE had beat him to the punch.

FWIW, I have red cedar double hammerd mulch in my beds, it does leave a residue on items it come into contact with, but it leaves more of a runny trail of residue, not sticky, like on the pic of the bag.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

This just gave me a Big AHA! moment. It does look like smeared red mulch on the bag.

ETA~ But why would there be mulch from the A's back yard on a bag from KC's trunk. Now I have confuzzled myself.

Maybe because decomp got on it?

Also, here in photos 4 through 12 are the contents of the bag:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ndex=orl-casey-anthony-discovery-pictures-022

In them you can see a large Arm & Hammer plastic bottle of dish soap. I think I can see that in the same bag as the red stuff, too. Can you all?

 

[CuriousTwo]

Do we know what kind of soil is prevalent in that area? Could the red stuff be red clay soil that got wet and made an impression on the bag? Also, the dead leaf beside the bag on the right looks similar to a palm or banana tree leaf to me. JMHO.

 

[The Eunice Burns]

Maybe because decomp got on it?

Also, here in photos 4 through 12 are the contents of the bag:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ndex=orl-casey-anthony-discovery-pictures-022

In them you can see a large Arm & Hammer plastic bottle of dish soap. I think I can see that in the same bag as the red stuff, too. Can you all?

Yes, it looks like the bright yellow Arm & Hammer bottle is in the bag w/ the red residue in/on it. But.....see that bottle nearly falling out of the bag? I don't see that plastic bottle (it looks like the same size as the Crystal Light bottle, but this has a "P" in the name and a lighter label.) Unless I am missing it, I don't see it w/ the rest of the trash in the evidence photos. ???

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

jmho- I think this pic was taken of the trash bag while it was still in the dumpster, before they removed it. Whatever that red/brown stuff that is on the bag, could have come from whatever was inside that dumpster. I think, the tow yard mgr. stated that when he thought to go out to the dumpster to get the bag, he had to go through many bags, but alas, never finding the actual bag-becase LE had beat him to the punch.

FWIW, I have red cedar double hammerd mulch in my beds, it does leave a residue on items it come into contact with, but it leaves more of a runny trail of residue, not sticky, like on the pic of the bag.

Thank you, skygirl. If the pic was taken in the dumpster that makes sense. But if it was red on the bag from the dumpster, shouldn't we be able to see something red inside the dumpster that it came from, too? Maybe not necessarily . . . Anyway, thanks for your good observation!

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Yes, it looks like the bright yellow Arm & Hammer bottle is in the bag w/ the red residue in/on it. But.....see that bottle nearly falling out of the bag? I don't see that plastic bottle (it looks like the same size as the Crystal Light bottle, but this has a "P" in the name and a lighter label.) Unless I am missing it, I don't see it w/ the rest of the trash in the evidence photos. ???

Yes, I saw that too. And it worried me until I read skygirl's post that the pic may have been taken while still in the dumpster. Then I thought it was possibly not actually in the bag but loose trash kinda behind the top of the bag. That bottle is actually why I tried so hard to identify anything else inside (like Arm & Hammer bottle) to confirm it was the right bag. I may very well be wrong!

 

[msinformed]

Trying to keep up here......In this photo (thanks for the link, Expecting!) of the two white trash bags, is the general consenus that the red stuff smeared on the bag is 1) on the outside of the bag? and 2) that it is red mulch?

It appears to me the pic was taken from outside the dumpster prior to the removal of the bag to the right (one w/ pizza box in it) ..... to document the trash bag's location before being handled by LE.

The dumpster seems to be very rusty inside, and has lots of liquid, gunky residue in it.

Therefore, could the "red stuff" possibly be on the outside of the bag and consist of the liquid, gunky rust residue the bag came in contact with when thrown in the dumpster, i.e., the trajectory having the bag hit the back wall of the dumpster, then slide down while slightly turning?

 

[msinformed]

jmho- I think this pic was taken of the trash bag while it was still in the dumpster, before they removed it. Whatever that red/brown stuff that is on the bag, could have come from whatever was inside that dumpster. I think, the tow yard mgr. stated that when he thought to go out to the dumpster to get the bag, he had to go through many bags, but alas, never finding the actual bag-becase LE had beat him to the punch.

FWIW, I have red cedar double hammerd mulch in my beds, it does leave a residue on items it come into contact with, but it leaves more of a runny trail of residue, not sticky, like on the pic of the bag.

Oops, I posted as I was reading, before seeing your post skygirl!

Great post, by the way!! :blowkiss:

 

[RR0004]

I don't think there ever was a consensus! To me it looks like damp red mulch on the inside of the bag. But why do think there were two? I thought only one was in the trunk (and please note that the bag that the red stuff is in also has that pizza box; that makes me think it might be the one from the trunk and because of the time stamp of the photo). But why two? Any ideas?

Is this too obvious...one had junk that was removed from the trunk/car?

 

[TakeNote]

a)

However, IMHO, there would be signficant decomp traces in the sandbox for the K9's had this been used...and there weren't. In the aerial views CSI actually appears to use the sandbox lid almost like a bucket to hold mulch as they scraped/scooped around the area. It also appears that they moved the sandbox to look under it but otherwise the mulch under it was not distrubed by CSI. FWIW, sand is heavy and Casey couldn't have moved it wholesale.
Respectfully snipped . .
BJB good thought . . but she could have used the lid to put the body in, to drag from point A to B. Also after trying to bury or put her underthe chips in the back corner, then realizing that would never fly, take the lid, move her to the "hit spot" and rinse off the dirt / chips from the body & lid. ?? ( Just trying to visualize here) :furious:
PS Good to have your great & amazing sleuthing mind back. Hope you had a great summer!

from the pic of the side yard....it really looks like something was draged all the way from the shed.....it still bugs me that you can see the black weed sheet under the mulch.....i thought at first it was just right there in front of the focet....but if you look real hard it looks to be all the way to the shed....

i also can see that the two trash bags are in the dumpster still.....looks like they just opend the lid and took the pic.....

can someone post the pic after the side house one? just curious since the pics went from the dumpster to the side yard....

 

[BondJamesBond]

could have used the lid to put the body in, to drag from point A to B. Also after trying to bury or put her underthe chips in the back corner, then realizing that would never fly, take the lid, move her to the "hit spot" and rinse off the dirt / chips from the body & lid. ??

*snipped*

IMHO, I see no reason to single out the sandbox/lid. IOW...Casey could've used anything in the backyard after the body had been bagged.

And, nothing more than my personal opinion, but, I don't see Casey doing anything "extra". I see Casey having the body wrapped, perhaps in a blanket, then bagged. No washing off of anything, etc.

 

[TakeNote]

*snipped*

IMHO, I see no reason to single out the sandbox/lid. IOW...Casey could've used anything in the backyard after the body had been bagged.

And, nothing more than my personal opinion, but, I don't see Casey doing anything "extra". I see Casey having the body wrapped, perhaps in a blanket, then bagged. No washing off of anything, etc.

maybe the A's washed off stuff

 

[BondJamesBond]

from the pic of the side yard....it really looks like something was draged all the way from the shed.....it still bugs me that you can see the black weed sheet under the mulch.....i thought at first it was just right there in front of the focet....but if you look real hard it looks to be all the way to the shed....

i also can see that the two trash bags are in the dumpster still.....looks like they just opend the lid and took the pic.....

*snipped*

FWIW...

1) Recall that a ~1 month had elapsed from the time of Caylee's death and body manipulations ~6/16-6/18 until the time the side-of-the-house picture was taken 7/16. So...IMHO, the condition of the mulch, etc. tells us most about the time close to 7/16. In my experience, it isn't uncommon for mulch (especially cedar chips, pine bark, etc) to be washed out of place by rain run off, sprinklers, garden hose, and displaced by the type of general traffic, (e.g. walking, mowers to/from shed, etc.) the side of the house sees.

2) Someone mentioned the hose that is visible in the picture. FWIW, I've been looking @ this to see if it fits w/ the reel being moved speculation. First - these hose reels have a short lead hose (e.g. 10 feet) that connects from the faucet to the reel box. Then, the short hose is connected to a swivel fitting in the reel box that allows the long hose section to be wound in & out of the reel box. IMHO, in the picture we see the lead hose running from the reel box toward and just behind the faucet (which is curious :waitasec) but not connected to the faucet. It also apears to me that the lead hose runs up against the house when it goes behind the faucet and extends for at least another few feet. It isn't clear to me from the picture how much further past the faucet it extends...but my guess is that it doesn't go much further. I don't see a second hose in the picture...and would be happy for someone to point that out to me. The reason the position of the lead hose is curious to me is that it doesn't jive with the hose reel being moved away from the faucet then back to the corner of the house. It could be that the lead hose was disconnected and just left in the area and the reel never moved. That would mean something else occuppied the space where the colored leaves abrubtly stop. :waitasec: IOW...if someone (e.g. Cindy) moved the hose reel to be near the backporch faucet so it could be used and had to hurriedly move it back...the lead hose might not have been in the position we see it in. It would be lagging behind the reel or even strewn on the ground near the reel. :waitasec: Maybe nothin'.

3) I'm going to bump an older thread regarding the white bag. I understand the thought being played out about the two pics (bag in dumpster & side yard) being in sequence with the speculation that the reddish stain on the exterior of the bag might be mulch-related. Still...for the purpose of exploring all of the other options it would seem to be best to allow that focus on the 'bag' thread. Will provide the link to the bumped thread in justasec, and add my :twocents: there.

ETA: Link to 'bag' thread bumped here: [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4153952&postcount=399"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - REVISIT from September: the trash bag in Casey's car trunk[/ame]

 

[BondJamesBond]

maybe the A's washed off stuff

...yes...somewhere earlier in all that babbling I think I outlined at least 3 options that could've resulted in K9 alerts in the backyard:

1) Casey exploits in the backyard w/ the body or something that had come in contact with it (lots of options on this one)

2) George setting down the gas can(s) in the back yard incidentally leaving trace decomposition from residual on the bottom of the can(s) after recovering them from Casey 6/24.

3) Cindy exploits in the backyard w/ item(s) (e.g. pants, boots, knive, etc.) recovered from the Pontiac 7/15-7/16 being washed in some fashion

4) George and/or Cindy's exploits in the backyard 7/16-7/17 <7PM just prior to LE arriving w/ the K9 units, either:

a) unintentionally xferring decomp from a single pre-existing location that existed from Casey's exploits (#1), OR
b) unintentionally xferring decomp from a new location (if none pre-existing) created by Cindy's exploits (#3)​

I added #4 after re-reading the LE report on the K9 units coming to the house and George telling the officer that he & Cindy had already gone through the sheds and looked for areas they considered potential for foul play - that he'd even looked under the playhouse already.

Sooo...total speculation to illustrate the point...if Cindy took something out of the trunk and washed it off into the mulch near the sandbox first...creating a K9 alert spot...then in the process of looking under the playhouse George created a cross-contamination....voila, another K9 alert spot...then going to look in the pool storage box and sheds George or Cindy created a third cross-contamination...3rd and final K9 alert spot, we'll that kinda creates a scenario.

That being said...I'm hard pressed to think of a practical cross-contamination scenario @ the moment. For example...if it was an item (such as a hose sprayer that Cindy used...then George sat down to lift the playhouse...then sat down again before placing it in the pool box - well, then that object (i.e. sprayer) itself would be contaminated w/ decomp and would've received a K9 alert too. Alternatively, a wet shoe that had trace decomp on it sufficient to create alerts far away from the original source...well...it seems there would be several more alert locations from the footsteps along the way. :waitasec:

Just thinking out loud again.

FWIW...a moved hose reel on 7/15-7/16 would support #2 a bit.

I haven't seen any corroboration of a faucet attachment being taken by LE. I'd appreciate it if someone has & can provide. TIA!

 

[TakeNote]

*snipped*

FWIW...

1) Recall that a ~1 month had elapsed from the time of Caylee's death and body manipulations ~6/16-6/18 until the time the side-of-the-house picture was taken 7/16. So...IMHO, the condition of the mulch, etc. tells us most about the time close to 7/16. In my experience, it isn't uncommon for mulch (especially cedar chips, pine bark, etc) to be washed out of place by rain run off, sprinklers, garden hose, and displaced by the type of general traffic, (e.g. walking, mowers to/from shed, etc.) the side of the house sees.

2) Someone mentioned the hose that is visible in the picture. FWIW, I've been looking @ this to see if it fits w/ the reel being moved speculation. First - these hose reels have a short lead hose (e.g. 10 feet) that connects from the faucet to the reel box. Then, the short hose is connected to a swivel fitting in the reel box that allows the long hose section to be wound in & out of the reel box. IMHO, in the picture we see the lead hose running from the reel box toward and just behind the faucet (which is curious :waitasec) but not connected to the faucet. It also apears to me that the lead hose runs up against the house when it goes behind the faucet and extends for at least another few feet. It isn't clear to me from the picture how much further past the faucet it extends...but my guess is that it doesn't go much further. I don't see a second hose in the picture...and would be happy for someone to point that out to me. The reason the position of the lead hose is curious to me is that it doesn't jive with the hose reel being moved away from the faucet then back to the corner of the house. It could be that the lead hose was disconnected and just left in the area and the reel never moved. That would mean something else occuppied the space where the colored leaves abrubtly stop. :waitasec: IOW...if someone (e.g. Cindy) moved the hose reel to be near the backporch faucet so it could be used and had to hurriedly move it back...the lead hose might not have been in the position we see it in. It would be lagging behind the reel or even strewn on the ground near the reel. :waitasec: Maybe nothin'.

3) I'm going to bump an older thread regarding the white bag. I understand the thought being played out about the two pics (bag in dumpster & side yard) being in sequence with the speculation that the reddish stain on the exterior of the bag might be mulch-related. Still...for the purpose of exploring all of the other options it would seem to be best to allow that focus on the 'bag' thread. Will provide the link to the bumped thread in justasec, and add my :twocents: there.

ETA: Link to 'bag' thread bumped here: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - REVISIT from September: the trash bag in Casey's car trunk

those are the things i had noticed.....i found it odd that they had a hose ....but the hose was not connected to the focet at the side of the house....plus i remember in the waaaay start of all of thise....that a focet had been taken from the back porch.....at that time i was really trying hard to figure out why they would take that :waitasec: and im not sure if i remember that it was an attachment to a focet.....but im thinking that it was....because in my mind at the time....i thought of an attachment as being like a sprayer or something like that....like you would have on the kitchen sink focet.....but then you brought up the attachment that would be used with a hose.....to hook up to the focet......

im glad to see something being thought about.....:blowkiss:....the threads can get a bit crazy....and non productive.....:crazy:

now im curious to what could have been there? on the side of the house? and why it would have been moved?

has anyone gone thru all the old pics....to see if there is any that showed the side of the house?

 

[msinformed]

...yes...somewhere earlier in all that babbling I think I outlined at least 3 options that could've resulted in K9 alerts in the backyard:

1) Casey exploits in the backyard w/ the body or something that had come in contact with it (lots of options on this one)

2) Cindy exploits in the backyard w/ item(s) (e.g. pants, boots, knive, etc.) recovered from the Pontiac 7/15-7/16 being washed in some fashion

3) George setting down the gas can(s) in the back yard incidentally leaving trace decomposition from residual on the bottom of the can(s) after recovering them from Casey 6/24.

FWIW...a moved hose reel on 7/15-7/16 would support #2 a bit.

I haven't seen any corroboration of a faucet attachment being taken by LE. I'd appreciate it if someone has & can provide. TIA!

I'll go w/ #2 ...