Motive For Murder

[Very Interesting]

Opinion: I am still sticking with the illicit affair caused all of this. Main reason being, the way she was killed, strangled from the front. This supposedly is the way most in an intimate relationship will kill. Not believing the WorkPlace Violence scenerio at all.

I think Yale is covering up alot on this one which is not surprising,they have done it before.

And not thinking Annie was the perfect girl her close friends and family thought. Some off hand remarks she made to some shows this.

Am sure the defense lawyers will try to explain away every last piece of evidence, so hope what evidence they have is good.

Though remember the building was not sealed nor shutdown for the crime?? Hundreds of people were walking all over the evidence and things could have been moved.

Also thinking Yale and New Haven police not going to come out of this one looking good.

Still think something not smelling right about any of it from the start.

 

[f_stills]

She may not be the physical agressor but she could have been the verbal agressor which escalated the meeting into physical violence. She's been made to look like a perfect person but remember she teased her friend for not having a butt even to the point of giving her undies with built in butt pads and would send a picture of her butt to the dean of admissions at Princeton after being turned down. It all seems in fun but shows she is capable of saying and doing things that some people may not take lightly. No matter what, RC lost it and is still responsible for his actions.

Let this be a lesson: treat everyone with respect and watch your words or it may come back to haunt you. No one deserves to die from workplace anger.

Nothing personal shoebox, but I disagree with some of the things written here. What could Le have possibly said that would have instigated a normal person to actually kill her? The blame here is not on Le and her possible words, but on the suspect and his inability to either let words roll off his back or interpret words in a non-reactionary, non-defensive way. She might have never been rude or arrogant towards him, but by her being a young, smart, successful woman he might have been prejudiced and defensive towards whatever she said and did in the first place.

I have a big problem with the interpretation of the "butt" anecdotes used as proof of certain aspects of Le's character. I am close to Le's age, and the underwear-with-pads prank among friends would not be considered seriously offensive among pretty much any other age-similar people I know. The mailing the picture of her butt to Princeton, while more questionable in taste, also would not be considered seriously offensive. Inappropriate? Yes. Cause for internal debate over her morality and integrity? Uh, no.

I have seen way more questionable, non-politically-correct, risque pranks, comments and jokes on a daily basis during college than those two of Le's actions. Daily.

If two butt jokes are seriously informing and coloring the perception of Le's integrity and character for some people, I really, really hate to think what would happen to most of the people I know of a similar age if their less demure words and actions were published. Really.

 

[t93]

Peoples' cars are often statements about their personalities. It's occurred to me that almost anyone who chooses to drive a bright red Mustang, as he did, wants to be noticed. It also occurs to me that officious behavior, as others have stated, can be a means to attract attention. I can't help but consider the usual reason a single 24-year old man wants to attract attention!

Not to take from the seriousness of the post, but sorry, I had to lol at myself at the bolded-I just got a bright red Mustang convertible I am at all not comfortable driving. My SUV quit and I had to get a new vehicle-my hubby said get something to hand over to our son in two years because he is almost old enough to drive and an honors student and deserves his dream vehicle. I wanted a pretty blue BMW, kiddo wanted the Mustang. He's very quiet and studious, very nerdy but loves flashy flashy convertibles. Hubby is studious and geeky and loves red flashy cars too. Both quiet personalities that love to drive fast and have flashy cars. (did I mention I can rattle windows with the stereo? SIGH)

Anyway, back on topic, can we say for sure he bought the car? If it was older it could still be whatever his parents bought him in high school. Which also gets into the whole was this child spoiled and coddled and allowed to get away with behaviors otherwise frowned upon. My older son had some authority issues before he joined the Marines and let me tell you, he did not get a dream vehicle. He got something to get to and from work once he had a job, but dad could take anytime he screwed up. A lot of kids his age though, the parents were determined to buy fabulous rides for their kids in order to secure popularity for the kid. And our high school has a 37% poverty rate, I heard from one of the girls trying to get a teaching job here. These kids drove nicer cars than mine, and I was a corporate stylist in a fairly nice sized company-and hubby is a network engineer. These parents drove 20 year old vans while their kids drove new sports cars.

 

[Very Interesting]

Pretty much a fact by past events at Yale, that Yale will manipulate,coverup,hide and flat out lie if it comes to protecting its reputation.

Pretty much a fact Yale has the power over the New Haven Police Dept, and the New Haven Police Dept will bow down to Yale. Yale is one of the primary powers in Connecticut.

Wouldnt surprise me, if the President or Dean of Yale and the Chief of New Haven Police sat down for dinner and a long discussion of Yale's reputation in this matter and some damage control measures. Yale has a huge interest in the outcome of this case. Possible damage control, call it a WorkPlace Violence incident, lesser of two evils or lesser of the other evils that may have occurred.

As far as the suspect going erradically to different rooms he shouldnt be in, well some would say it would be easy for him to say, some mice got out of their cages and he was trying to find them, you cant tell a mouse which rooms not to go into.

 

[Emma Peel]

Respectfully snipped

I have a big problem with the interpretation of the "butt" anecdotes used as proof of certain aspects of Le's character.
.

Agreed, and to add:

Frankly, the deep hidden character flaw analysis using the the Princeton/Annie/photo story is kinda silly.

Let’s consider the source .

"Her response, recalled former classmate Cierra Silva Montes, was to send a photograph of her rear end to the dean of admissions."

The referenced quote wasn’t from Princeton. It was from a buddy from high school, who was simply recalling a memory from senior year of high school – a “story” of an ivy league rejection letter "story". I have a hard time accepting such out-of-context press-urged anecdotes from long-lost high school buddies as testimony to anything other than Annie’s, perhaps sense of humor. Kids who supported each other during the application process will likewise support each other dreaming up new ways to get revenge on admissions committees. (Can you blame them? No! Do they follow through? Doubtful.) Senior year flies by; everyone gets rejected from somewhere, and egos heal under the hope of a bright future at a different college.

Not to mention, it's highly unlikely, and completely out of character, that Annie, a young person with a clear vision of studying for 12 years in medicine & research would sabatoge their chances of attending that Ivy for graduate school or post-doc studies.

I’m sure Annie’s friend would be appalled to think her little anecdote, taken completely out of context and published around the world would be construed as evidence of Annie’s proclivities towards promiscuity and/or sexcually inappropriate behavior. MOO

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I don't think that Clark ever really was going to get married....he got engaged about 18 months ago, and the "wedding" wasn't supposed to happen until the end of 2011 !!!! That just sounds like a guy who is trying to silence a nagging girlfriend.

bumpity bump...same thing i've been thinking...and WELCOME TO WEBSLEUTHS!

 

[Emma Peel]

Pretty much a fact by past events at Yale, that Yale will manipulate,coverup,hide and flat out lie if it comes to protecting its reputation.

Pretty much a fact Yale has the power over the New Haven Police Dept, and the New Haven Police Dept will bow down to Yale. Yale is one of the primary powers in Connecticut.

Wouldnt surprise me, if the President or Dean of Yale and the Chief of New Haven Police sat down for dinner and a long discussion of Yale's reputation in this matter and some damage control measures. Yale has a huge interest in the outcome of this case. Possible damage control, call it a WorkPlace Violence incident, lesser of two evils or lesser of the other evils that may have occurred.

As far as the suspect going erradically to different rooms he shouldnt be in, well some would say it would be easy for him to say, some mice got out of their cages and he was trying to find them, you cant tell a mouse which rooms not to go into.

Your points are valid with regard to Yale's powerful influence in the community of New Haven, however:

(1) its become quite clear to us outsiders that in the past 48 hours that physical evidence had the suspect "dead to swipes, dead to physical evidence, and dead to DNA"

and

(2) the FBI had a look at all of this for several days and left, precisely because of (1).

And so, IMO, this line of thinking towards a Yale cover-up becomes moot for me.

 

[Chili Fries]

Has anyone posted this EXCELLENT article from the NY Times? It details the workplace.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/18/nyregion/18yale.html?hp

Animal technicians must also be watchdogs, making sure that in the bureaucratic world of animal research, all documents have been filed and all ethical standards obeyed. They might remind a student to put on a gown before entering a room, or chide a researcher for failing to separate a litter of mice or clipping a mouse tail for a DNA sample, a practice the university forbids.

They live in fear of being held responsible for somebody else’s sloppiness; a single lapse like a dehydrated animal or unsanitary work space could mean weeks of disciplinary hearings.

“A lot of them tend to view us as janitors,” the co-worker said. “But we’re more than that. We are policemen. We are there to make sure everything is done humanely and ethically.”

 

[Very Interesting]

Your points are valid with regard to Yale's powerful influence in the community of New Haven, however:

(1) its become quite clear to us outsiders that in the past 48 hours that physical evidence had the suspect "dead to swipes, dead to physical evidence, and dead to DNA"

and

(2) the FBI had a look at all of this for several days and left, precisely because of (1).

And so, IMO, this line of thinking towards a Yale cover-up becomes moot for me.

How could any of us outsiders or anybody that does not work for Yale Security, New Haven Police Dept or the FBI know what the evidence is? The evidence is sealed and has not been released?

 

[stilettos]

She may not be the physical agressor but she could have been the verbal agressor which escalated the meeting into physical violence. She's been made to look like a perfect person but remember she teased her friend for not having a butt even to the point of giving her undies with built in butt pads and would send a picture of her butt to the dean of admissions at Princeton after being turned down. It all seems in fun but shows she is capable of saying and doing things that some people may not take lightly. No matter what, RC lost it and is still responsible for his actions.

Let this be a lesson: treat everyone with respect and watch your words or it may come back to haunt you. No one deserves to die from workplace anger.

there is absolutely no evidence indicating she did not treat this man and others with respect. Nothing.

 

[jjenny]

I frankly doubt very much Annie Le actually send a Dean of admission a photo or her rear end. My guess is she joked about doing it, after not being admitted.
Joking about something and doing it are two different things.

 

[amysmom]

Pretty much a fact by past events at Yale, that Yale will manipulate,coverup,hide and flat out lie if it comes to protecting its reputation.

Pretty much a fact Yale has the power over the New Haven Police Dept, and the New Haven Police Dept will bow down to Yale. Yale is one of the primary powers in Connecticut.

Wouldnt surprise me, if the President or Dean of Yale and the Chief of New Haven Police sat down for dinner and a long discussion of Yale's reputation in this matter and some damage control measures. Yale has a huge interest in the outcome of this case. Possible damage control, call it a WorkPlace Violence incident, lesser of two evils or lesser of the other evils that may have occurred.

As far as the suspect going erradically to different rooms he shouldnt be in, well some would say it would be easy for him to say, some mice got out of their cages and he was trying to find them, you cant tell a mouse which rooms not to go into.

Yale announced it now has a zero tolerance policy re: employee behavior..They really are pushing this WPV issue hard even without knowing all the facts of the murder..Actually, nobody but RC & Annie do so they (& us) are just guessing & will probably never know the real deal.

Mice can get under the smallest spaces so isnt the lab properly prepared for this event? IOW!..Make it impossible for them to have any access out?

 

[Emma Peel]

How could any of us outsiders or anybody that does not work for Yale Security, New Haven Police Dept or the FBI know what the evidence is? The evidence is sealed and has not been released?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-yale-student18-2009sep18,0,3083836.story

We can't. You are right on that - until trial.

Thanks for the catch in the event others were confused with regard to my point. Which was, various Yale consipiracy theories will, if the physical evidence leaked to sources and reported by the press are correct, become moot.

Things seem to be moving strongly in this direction. Again, Moo.

By the way, if Annie was having an affair, don't you think it would be EVEN CLEANER for Yale to put the blame on "crime of passion and sexual liason", than to accept and embrace the idea that Yale is NOT immune to workplace violence?

This is still a nightmare for Yale. IMHO.

 

[ChasingMoxie]

Not sure where to ask this, but it's relevant to the current line of discussion: does the "workplace violence" classification perhaps prevent this crime from counting towards an overall college safety rating in some manner? I know all colleges are required to track and report crime statistics for campus safety public records; I was wondering if maybe classifying this as workplace violence allows them to not have to check the "murder" box on their mandatory campus safety reports? I think this is a likely reason for the odd terminology. These are public statistics and murders likely have a major impact on national campus safety rankings.

 

[songline]

This may be true, porkchop, but we must consider history. RC has a history of impulsive violence. Annie's history shows nothing of the sort.

To boot, I don't believe she would've achieved all she had and been put into a trusted position as she was if she'd demonstrated impulsive violence, or even a tendency toward it. Sure, people bow to intimidation all the time, but to a 4'11", 90-lb. Asian female? I wouldn't think so.

seems to me Annie's history shows, some arrogance, and berating of some.... I read it right here on this thread somewhere.

The reason that jumped out at me...IS.....
I had an instinct that this girl looked down at him, and behaved as if she is better then he is....
I have seen that behaviour amongst Asian people often in the work place.
While they can be very polite, they can also be colder then ice with an attitude, and a nose up in the air.
It is only my hinky meter, a sense I got instantly as I learned and read this case. He may have had one screw loose, (low self esteem) and she tugged on it with her berating and down looking at him. MOO

 

[Roy23]

How could any of us outsiders or anybody that does not work for Yale Security, New Haven Police Dept or the FBI know what the evidence is? The evidence is sealed and has not been released?

Why does everything have to be a conspiricy to some? Plenty of evidence is known. Like his DNA on her, blood on his shoes, access to her. Yale is not controlling anything. It is beyond their control.

Annie didn't follow her protocols to RC's liking and it got physical. Not one person has said anything about them having any kind of relationship. And with the media in this case, they are interviewing friends, family, and whoever wants to speak.

She pissed him off and he killed her. Maybe it was because he loved his animals and felt she was not taking care. Maybe it was because she dissed his accusations. But in the end he overreacted and they have a very solid case. That is why they were watching him before the body was even found. He failed a lie detector test, lawyered up, and then LE ultimately they found the body.

 

[Very Interesting]

Due to the national and international exposure of this case and that Yale is involved, I am sure there are many top caliber defense attorneys going into a feeding frenzy to represent the suspect.

Dont ever forget about the OJ case, they had everything including DNA to put him away and he walked away free due to his defense lawyers.

They are going to have to prove without any doubt what so ever,that the suspect did it. Cannot be any tiny little doubt at all (including any evidence that had been compromised or tainted).

The evidence has not been released and is sealed, the defense doesnt even know what the evidence is right now. And if justice is done fairly and correctly, the suspect is innocent until proven guilty.

 

[f_stills]

http://www.courant.com/videobeta/watch/?watch=0c57de7c-1077-42d6-9637-2c0c92a29612&src=front

Very interesting video announcing possible second arrest on the way, no word on who exactly it might be. If true, who knows what THAT person's motive might be.

I've transcribed some of the relevant bits from the news report here if someone can't access the video:

Police are questing someone who may or may not have helped out Clark while he was disposing of Annie Le's body... It could have been this work relationship that eventually led to this attack. Today the Hartford Courant is coming out with an article that cites a source close to the police department who hints at the motive here. Possibly an argument over abuse of lab animals. New Haven Police right now say that reports of Le and Clark having this romantic relationship are completely false. They say there's no evidence to support that.

 

[Roy23]

Due to the national and international exposure of this case and that Yale is involved, I am sure there are many top caliber defense attorneys going into a feeding frenzy to represent the suspect.

Dont ever forget about the OJ case, they had everything including DNA to put him away and he walked away free due to his defense lawyers.

They are going to have to prove without any doubt what so ever,that the suspect did it. Cannot be any tiny little doubt at all (including any evidence that had been compromised or tainted).

The evidence has not been released and is sealed, the defense doesnt even know what the evidence is right now. And if justice is done fairly and correctly, the suspect is innocent until proven guilty.

OJ has nothing to do with this case. And that was more about demographics and what was going on in Los Angeles. Chris Darden, the african american prosecutor, knew they were going to lose before trial even started. Most of that was because of the jury selected.

I can guarantee you right now that RC is not going to walk.

 

[duongthai]

I agree with most of the theories so far -- workplace rage. But, I also agree that it just seems like there must be more to this. An affair is one possibility, but if that was the case, there might well be rumors in the lab -- hard to keep 100% secret. I keep going back to some sinister issue with research and financial stakes, or the pride of researchers. Here is an article that shows the stakes people will go to in regard to the fruits of research. I just wonder if Annie had made a major discovery that others wanted credit for, or maybe she discovered that someone else's research was wrong and it was going to hurt someone's royalties.

http://ipbiz.blogspot.com/2004/07/criminal-actions-in-patent-litigation.html

In the above case, notebooks were allegedly tampered with and falsified which which led to an arrest, and a Judge's life was threatened. Maybe Annie had some evidence, and Clark was paid to get that evidence or threaten Annie to back off.